Redouane Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Greetings, I detest how hypocritical some atheists can be, such as the well-known youtuber 'The Amazing Atheist.' This individual insults every single group (Femenists, Religious, ect), but when it comes to LGBT individuals, he becomes upset. Apparently, it's okay to insult certain groups, such as religious individuals, it's okay to be close-minded about them and non-accepting. These atheist people are hypocrite. I hope people on here are not ignorant and close-minded like him or others like him. If you expect theist to show respect to groups which you think deserve respect, then show respect to us. Just wanted to address this issue on my first post. Thanks for reading,Redouane.
Wesley Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 What was the goal of addressing this? I am sure there are plenty of religious people who are annoying and hypocritical, just like there are atheists who are annoying and hypocritical. One person is popular by this persona as it gets him views, it is hardly representative of a "belief system" (for lack of a better term).
Redouane Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 What was the goal of addressing this? I am sure there are plenty of religious people who are annoying and hypocritical, just like there are atheists who are annoying and hypocritical. One person is popular by this persona as it gets him views, it is hardly representative of a "belief system" (for lack of a better term). I just wanted to discuss it. I'm not saying I want to change the world. Why post on this forum if not to discuss an issue? You seem to have forgotten the purpose of a "forum."
Wesley Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I have not forgotten anything. My asking you a question about what it means to you is the start of discussing an issue to know where you are coming from. Thus, my question and point seem to be directly related to your original post in this thread.
Pepin Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 It is the difference between comedy and tragedy; the difference between voluntary and involuntary; the difference between deserved and undeserved.
STer Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Greetings, I detest how hypocritical some atheists can be, such as the well-known youtuber 'The Amazing Atheist.' This individual insults every single group (Femenists, Religious, ect), but when it comes to LGBT individuals, he becomes upset. Apparently, it's okay to insult certain groups, such as religious individuals, it's okay to be close-minded about them and non-accepting. These atheist people are hypocrite. I hope people on here are not ignorant and close-minded like him or others like him. If you expect theist to show respect to groups which you think deserve respect, then show respect to us. Just wanted to address this issue on my first post. Thanks for reading,Redouane. I think people who respond that way view sexual orientation as not being a choice and therefore unjustified as a target of ridicule, whereas they view philosophical or religious stance as something a person can change and therefore justified as a target of ridicule. I'm not commenting on the truth or falsehood of this opinion, but I think that is the logic that underlies that behavior.
Redouane Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 I think people who respond that way view sexual orientation as not being a choice and therefore unjustified as a target of ridicule, whereas they view philosophical or religious stance as something a person can change and therefore justified as a target of ridicule. I'm not commenting on the truth or falsehood of this opinion, but I think that is the logic that underlies that behavior. Perhaps in your point of view. I disagree, homosexuality is A choice. However, I am only pointing out my point of view because this is a forum. I wouldn't rally against homosexuals, just like I hope they don't rally against religion. Tolerance is necessary if we are to co-exist.
STer Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Perhaps in your point of view. I disagree, homosexuality is A choice. However, I am only pointing out my point of view because this is a forum. I wouldn't rally against homosexuals, just like I hope they don't rally against religion. Tolerance is necessary if we are to co-exist. I specifically said I was not commenting on the truth or falsehood of the opinion in this thread, but simply saying that appears to be the viewpoint of many of the people you are talking about who ridicule one and not the other. That is how they find their behavior morally consistent. The statement that "tolerance is necessary if we are to co-exist" is only true to a certain extent. Beyond that you reach the "paradox of tolerance" where, if you tolerate certain things, you cannot co-exist or possibly exist at all. Some things are incompatible with health and peace and cannot be tolerated if you want to maintain those. Deciding what those things are is a difficult task.
Redouane Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 I specifically said I was not commenting on the truth or falsehood of the opinion in this thread, but simply saying that appears to be the viewpoint of many of the people you are talking about who ridicule one and not the other. That is how they find their behavior morally consistent. The statement that "tolerance is necessary if we are to co-exist" is only true to a certain extent. Beyond that you reach the "paradox of tolerance" where, if you tolerate certain things, you cannot co-exist or possibly exist at all. Some things are incompatible with health and peace and cannot be tolerated if you want to maintain those. Deciding what those things are is a difficult task. That is only the case for select groups which may harm you in some way, such pedophiles. However, being tolerant towards others who don't harm in anyway is not a brutal task.
Wesley Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 You seem to be intolerant of people you deem intolerant. Just a bit inconsistent.
STer Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 That is only the case for select groups which may harm you in some way, such pedophiles. However, being tolerant towards others who don't harm in anyway is not a brutal task. It's not that simple because harm is not done only directly. For instance, teaching someone a certain belief can lead that person to then act on it. The person who taught them may never even encounter you. Yet they may have been instrumental in the person they taught later doing something that does harm you. In fact, many of the people who have been influential in the emergence of great harm rarely did the direct harm themselves, but had others do it on their behalf or under their influence. So when someone sees a particular philosophy as harmful in that it may influence others to do harmful things, they may criticize the person putting forth that philosophical viewpoint even if that person themselves never directly harms them. You seem to be intolerant of people you deem intolerant. Just a bit inconsistent. That's the ultimate form of the "paradox of intolerance" that I was referring to. Frankly, I think there is no way around the fact that certain forms of tolerance are themselves intolerable (if you value health and sustainability, for instance). That's why I don't think it makes sense to advocate for "tolerance" in and of itself as something desirable. I think it's more desirable to advocate for wisdom in deciding what to support and what to oppose.
MysterionMuffles Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Homosexual is a choice? What makes you think that homosexuality is a choice?
Redouane Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 Homosexual is a choice? What makes you think that homosexuality is a choice? a) Religion b) It is not natural. I like how people say that animals engage in homosexual behavior, there for it is natural.. But animals often have intercourse with younger animals.. does that make pedophilia okay? Nature made it so that the parts 'fit'. Also, I do not wish to engage in a debate on this issue. Just like I don't want to engage in a debate about religion. If you disagree with my religion, fine. I disagree with homosexuality, so please respect that.
Wesley Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 A penis does not fit into a rectum the same way it fits into a vagina? This is also why I tend to not be very tolerant of irrationality. Irrationality like "intolerance of my religion is bad" thus I am going to be intolerant of people who are intolerant, and apparently intolerant of homosexuality, as well as intolerant of the science behind homosexuality. Not to mention that this condemnation is not based on principles, or science, bu admitted irrational preference. This is why you demand tolerance. Not as a universal principle, but so that people do not challenge whatever arbitrary beliefs you hold, but rather just accept them and be tolerant of them. Despite this personal wish, you seem to not be tolerant of others, however we need to be tolerant of your intolerance while you are not tolerant of the intolerance of others.
Redouane Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 A penis does not fit into a rectum the same way it fits into a vagina? This is also why I tend to not be very tolerant of irrationality. Irrationality like "intolerance of my religion is bad" thus I am going to be intolerant of people who are intolerant, and apparently intolerant of homosexuality, as well as intolerant of the science behind homosexuality. Not to mention that this condemnation is not based on principles, or science, bu admitted irrational preference. This is why you demand tolerance. Not as a universal principle, but so that people do not challenge whatever arbitrary beliefs you hold, but rather just accept them and be tolerant of them. Despite this personal wish, you seem to not be tolerant of others, however we need to be tolerant of your intolerance while you are not tolerant of the intolerance of others. How am I intolerant? I tolerate homosexuals. I accept their beliefs. I just personally don't believe in their beliefs. Same goes for religion, I tolerate other religions, but I don't necessarily believe in them. Like I said, I tolerate those who are different. Why is that so hard you to conceive or accept?
Wesley Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 How am I intolerant? I tolerate homosexuals. I accept their beliefs. I just personally don't believe in their beliefs. The implication is not that you just do not believe in it (which is silly and intolerant in itself because it is about scientific fact, not arbitrary preference). For instance I do not see you criticizing my avatar as that is a choice. You are claiming that religion is true and it is true that homosexuality is a choice. This puts it out of the realm of opinion into the realm of truth or falsehood. You say that people who disagree with what is true (the proposition you put forward) are wrong. Opinions are not statements of truth. "I like ice cream" puts no burden on you to accept it. "Homosexuality is a choice" is a proposition of truth about the world. Same with "I believe that religion is true". These are not arbitrary preferences or opinions, but rather statements about the world that exists and therefore are subject to logic, empiricism and evaluation of truth or falsehood. If it was merely and opinion, you would not be asserting them as true. Finally, you can drop the personal attacks. They do not help your case.
MysterionMuffles Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 a) Religion b) It is not natural. I like how people say that animals engage in homosexual behavior, there for it is natural.. But animals often have intercourse with younger animals.. does that make pedophilia okay? Nature made it so that the parts 'fit'. Also, I do not wish to engage in a debate on this issue. Just like I don't want to engage in a debate about religion. If you disagree with my religion, fine. I disagree with homosexuality, so please respect that.Right...I think you're in the wrong place if you're bringing these things up and expecting people not to argue.
FiddlertheLeper Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 How am I intolerant? I tolerate homosexuals. I accept their beliefs. I just personally don't believe in their beliefs. Same goes for religion, I tolerate other religions, but I don't necessarily believe in them. Like I said, I tolerate those who are different. Why is that so hard you to conceive or accept? Welcome to FDR Redouane, i understand you want to question this stuff as it obviously is important to you in some way. But i would encourage you to approach these sort of subjects with an open mind if you can, otherwise many here are likely to detect that your asking these question as a way of attacking the people who believe differently than you. If you ask a question of people to which you feel you already know the one true answer, your not asking these questions to learn the truth, your asking them to manipulate others into believing what you believe. Many people here will react negatively to these kind of question (even though most or at least some of us are guilty of this same thing in other areas, we are all human and all make mistakes) If a position that is contrary to yours has either no criteria by which it can change your position, or such high criteria for changing your position as to be practically impossible for it do so, your questions are not sincere. If this is the way you feel, a sincere position would be to state your position as the truth, and see who agrees with your "truth." If i believe that the only true answer to how economies should function is the Free Market, and i ask people how should we run our economies? I am not sincerely looking for possible answers, i am looking to do one of two things (most likely) either i am trying to find which people know the same "truth" i do, or i am trying to get people to state their "truths" so i can dismantle, or attack their "incorrect" position. Neither of these two reasons, require, or benefit from the form of a question. When we ask a question sincerely, we are seeking data and truth, if you will not accept data or truth contrary to your belief before you asked the question, then it's not a real question, but a manipulation tactic. And, here in this community people are very likely to call you on that. Doesn't mean your always wrong in your opinion, just that you might want to think about what it is your really trying to achieve by asking the question, and if it's not to gather information (facts) and learn about other beliefs (opinions) that will effect your own belief (opinion), then perhaps you would be better served by a statement of your beliefs, or an assertions of your reasons.
Redouane Posted September 4, 2013 Author Posted September 4, 2013 The implication is not that you just do not believe in it (which is silly and intolerant in itself because it is about scientific fact, not arbitrary preference). For instance I do not see you criticizing my avatar as that is a choice. You are claiming that religion is true and it is true that homosexuality is a choice. This puts it out of the realm of opinion into the realm of truth or falsehood. You say that people who disagree with what is true (the proposition you put forward) are wrong. Opinions are not statements of truth. "I like ice cream" puts no burden on you to accept it. "Homosexuality is a choice" is a proposition of truth about the world. Same with "I believe that religion is true". These are not arbitrary preferences or opinions, but rather statements about the world that exists and therefore are subject to logic, empiricism and evaluation of truth or falsehood. If it was merely and opinion, you would not be asserting them as true. Finally, you can drop the personal attacks. They do not help your case. Excuse me? Personal attacks? I have not insulted you in anyway. Right...I think you're in the wrong place if you're bringing these things up and expecting people not to argue. No, I am happy to debate the ORIGINAL idea of the post, rather than something completely irrelevant. You are right, however, posting in here was a mistake. People who have posted in this thread have chosen to ignore every single word I have posted, and completely change the topic. Apparently, my opinion is personally attacking people. Good day ladies and gentlemen.
Wesley Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Why is that so hard you to conceive or accept? You seem to have forgotten the purpose of a "forum."
MysterionMuffles Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Redouane, I don't know much about the Amazing Atheist but all I can say is this: Atheists reject the idea of religion and accept it as highly abusive towards children. Why he would hate on Feminism I dont know, please elaborate that for me. For now I will make the guess he hates on Feminism because of the contradiction in it being equality, yet over the past few years, feminism has become an ascendancy over men, like feminity being better. I could be wrong. As for why the Amazing Atheist may hate all these different groups but sensitively defends homosexuality is maybe because he's gay himself, knows gay people or any other reason. I might be wrong but the way you are phrasing your argument is making me feel like you are basically saying "Atheists are hypocrites because they hate all irrational groups like religions, but defend homosexuals, who are inherently worse and should be among the hated group." SOMETHING like that but Im not saying thats exactly what you're saying, just what I'm getting communicated to me. The reason why this is, may be because there is nothing irrational about homosexuality. It's not a choice you inflict on your youngins like religion is. Religion is only choice by default because the parents are that religion. However, homosexual parents can and do end up raising straight children because homosexuality is NOT a choice. Maybe to some out of some desperation in the lack of getting attention from the opposite sex, but from my understanding is that it is a genetic thing. People are born homosexuals and just because they come out with it DOESNT make it a choice. The choice really lies in wanting to be open about it. Hope this helps.
LovePrevails Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 Redouane, have you received poor treatment at the hands of atheists first hand in your ordinary experience?
Hannibal Posted September 5, 2013 Posted September 5, 2013 Perhaps in your point of view. I disagree, homosexuality is A choice. However, I am only pointing out my point of view because this is a forum. I wouldn't rally against homosexuals, just like I hope they don't rally against religion. Tolerance is necessary if we are to co-exist. While i'm on an Ayn Rand vibe... "In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win." a) Religion b) It is not natural. I like how people say that animals engage in homosexual behavior, there for it is natural.. But animals often have intercourse with younger animals.. does that make pedophilia okay? Nature made it so that the parts 'fit'. Also, I do not wish to engage in a debate on this issue. Just like I don't want to engage in a debate about religion. If you disagree with my religion, fine. I disagree with homosexuality, so please respect that. Hold on... 1) That logic is very broken. You say natural observations can't be used as evidence because we might then think its natural to have sex with children, yet at the same time you claim that homosexual is not natural. Based on what evidence? 2) Your religious views are evil. It's not really fair to post a rant on your first visit because someone said something against your irrational faith, and against your irrational views on homosexuality, and then to complain that you don;t want to debate either. 3) I don't respect your disagreement with homosexuality. What makes you think that I or anyone else should? Opinions aren't worth respect just because someone holds them. I respect peoples desire to talk about their opinions in order to understand and validate them, but a bullshit opinion will always be a bullshit opinion. Why he would hate on Feminism I dont know, Look for karen straughan on youtube for a very good source.
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