James Dean Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't think it needs much more clarification... I was just petting my cat when I realized that I care for this life in a very selfless and unconditional kind of way, the way that I care for certain people in my life. Could it be projection or could it be that I do actually love my cat? We're not talking bestiality here, although if you think that's relevant, I'm open to considering it's relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoptic Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 This is a question I have been wondering myself. I personally don't think the animal can love back. I think that the animal may have attachment to you since you provide it with food and shelter, but there is no "love", since love is a response to virtue. Animals are not virtuous (at least in the way that humans are) because they are not concerned with other beings other than for reproduction (they seem to care for protecting their own, but it is for the advancement of their genes). It is very interesting though, because some animals are more intelligent than others. And although I don't think any animals on this planet love, I wonder what it would be like if other homo species still existed and were still primitive compared to us. They obviously were far far more intelligent than other things around them, but its hard to tell where love begins to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Dean Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Interesting, the first thing that comes to my mind is that humans have the same biological imperatives and it is on these imperatives that virtue is built, like the NAP or property rights, it may not be as advanced in animals, but could it be said that they contain the ingredients of virtue but just haven't figured out how to put it all together yet, (what with their small brains and all..) another thing I think of is Dolphins, now being treated as somewhat separate from the majority of the animal kingdom? Non human personhood I think it's called. Also, if the love is not reciprocal, can the human healthily feel that love or is that by it's nature unhelthy because it is love that is not responding to virtue, as animals have no virtue. Thanks for your thoughts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Beal Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Also, if the love is not reciprocal, can the human healthily feel that love or is that by it's nature [unhealthy] because it is love that is not responding to virtue, as animals have no virtue. Well, the attachment and desire to be around you is real. There seems to be some evidence I've seen that shows that animals care about the well being of other animals, not simply for what value that animal brings to their lives, but out of some sort of empathy. There are lots of reports of dogs coming to the rescue of their masters, and kittens in a burning building and that sort of thing. I think what the only real issue here is with the use of the word "love". The bonding and attachment and all that stuff isn't bad or irrational or anything like that, but it's not what I would call "love" since (as already mentioned) love is our involuntary response to virtue, if we ourselves are virtuous. Animals don't act on principle, and as far as I know lack any concept of justice or virtue. I could be wrong though. I don't really know very much about animal psychologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Dean Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't really know very much about animal psychologies. Haha neither do I, but I do have a looooooot of conjecture around my pet's motivations, mostly they involve the procurement of belly rubs and elaborate plans to rule the world Is this bonding and attachment a unique relationship? Like such bonding and attachment between humans is different from all other relationships? distinct from say, attachment to a computer or to an heirloom? furthermore, can I love someone who I am not attached or bonded too or can I be bonded and attached to someone without loving them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen C Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Maybe if an animal has the capacity to hide something, we can say that animal has the capacity to be honest or dishonest.Maybe if an animal has the capacity to feel fear, we can say that animal has the capacity to be brave or cowardly.<<wags tail>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovePrevails Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't think it needs much more clarification... I was just petting my cat when I realized that I care for this life in a very selfless and unconditional kind of way, the way that I care for certain people in my life. Could it be projection or could it be that I do actually love my cat? We're not talking bestiality here, although if you think that's relevant, I'm open to considering it's relevance. If your love is unconditional, then I would suggest that it's not any kind of meaningful love. I.e the kind of love you feel towards a family member by default, purely because they are a family member. Love is about sharing values, and as pets aren;t able to hold values, other than material values (as a generalisation), i would say that you don;t actually love your pet in any meaningful sense. "love" is a very broad term, and your kind of love falls under that label somewhere, but we could really do with another word to distinguish between the different kinds. Love, friendship, respect, admiration are the emotional response of one man to the virtues of another, the spiritual payment given in exchange for the personal, selfish pleasure which one man derives from the virtues of another man’s character. Only a brute or an altruist would claim that the appreciation of another person’s virtues is an act of selflessness, that as far as one’s own selfish interest and pleasure are concerned, it makes no difference whether one deals with a genius or a fool, whether one meets a hero or a thug, whether one marries an ideal woman or a slut. -- Ayn Rand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRobin Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I think it might be more accurate to make the following distinction into "caring for something/someone" and "appreciate/admire something/someone for his/her actions and/or choices".I think it's only natural to care for other feeling beings such as animals, but appreciation or admiration for the choies one makes is impossible in regards to the animal I think, as it's mental capacities just aren't there in that regard. So care in that sense could probably be called our involutanry response to feeling beings if we ourselves are emapthetic (darn, I'm sure there's a better word than "feeling", but it eludes me just now). And admiration/appreciaton would be our invluntary response to the virtuous choices of other if we ourselves are virtuous (i.e. love). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen C Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 I think it might be more accurate to make the following distinction into "caring for something/someone" and "appreciate/admire something/someone for his/her actions and/or choices".I think it's only natural to care for other feeling beings such as animals, but appreciation or admiration for the choies one makes is impossible in regards to the animal I think, as it's mental capacities just aren't there in that regard. So care in that sense could probably be called our involutanry response to feeling beings if we ourselves are emapthetic (darn, I'm sure there's a better word than "feeling", but it eludes me just now). And admiration/appreciaton would be our invluntary response to the virtuous choices of other if we ourselves are virtuous (i.e. love). Compassionate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Dean Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Maybe since the true meaning of love, which you guys have given some stellar definitions of, has been so warped, it's hard to just throw it around without putting a lot of mirk in peoples mind. That in mind, I think something so special as the bond between man and animals should be given some special treatment, is that fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Beal Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Maybe since the true meaning of love, which you guys have given some stellar definitions of, has been so warped, it's hard to just throw it around without putting a lot of mirk in peoples mind. That in mind, I think something so special as the bond between man and animals should be given some special treatment, is that fair? Sounds fair to me Relationships with animals can be very therapeutic. People pay to see dolphins and horses for that reason. I've also had close relationships with dogs that felt special to me. Maybe if that animal were a lion or anaconda, I might not feel like it was so special tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Dean Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 lions are kinda like cats just don't try to pet it's belly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen C Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Dem pokemons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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