Kurtis4444 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Using force against the State is futile for the following reasons: 1) The State is a symptom of a much greater, underlying problem. 2) Willfully ignorant, self-destructive, sociopathic, and narcissistic people don't learn. A display of force isn't going to teach them a lesson. The only way to fix society is for enlightened, productive, peaceful people to secede from thugs and dipshits. Since they will never change through appeals to reason and evidence, the only option left is to let them purge themselves by self-destructing. This thread is the first I am hearing of Chris Cantwell. But after listening to him speak I think he does make some good points. I think Stefan's route to achieving freedom is amazing and ultimately is what will make the biggest most sustainable change in society. However I can't help but feel that the majority of the change will not take place in our lifetimes. (Just a side note that I don't want to jump over the amazing work Stefan does for people’s personal lives and relationships with those around them, myself included) However the change I want to see in society I don't think we will see in our lifetime. Cause of this I wouldn't be opposed to creating groups that may have more of an impact in the short term. For example a group that signs up for a refusal to pay taxes once they have enough people signed up. This way the government can not simple use force to have them comply. Also Cantwell talked about the fact that people who chose not to stand up to violent in a small way condone it and empower the perpetrators of violence at the expense of the victims. All in all I would like to see that debate.
Alan C. Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 The advantage that intelligent, productive, peaceful people have over the State (along with the State sycophants who enable it) is that we have the ability to sustain ourselves, whereas the State does not. As Murray Rothbard said, the State is a "crippling and parasitic blight...upon the voluntary and productive social process." The way to cure the pestilence is to deprive it of sustenance.
jacbot Posted July 16, 2014 Posted July 16, 2014 Chris Cantwell is not welcome to the free-state project because he said that someday, we'll have to shoot a cop to gain our freedom. He is asking to Stefan to see if his arguments is good or not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw9xJJCFp6o Predicting the future 50-60 years from now is a waste of time. This violent revolution retoric is getting old.
fractional slacker Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 Epic rant by CC regarding the removal of the Libertarian Brutalism page on FB.Warning: bad words ahead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX2qG7jS0GE#t=125 (edit: looks like the censors won't allow this particular vid to embed)
RandR10 Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I don't know how much of a debate there would be. I doubt Stefan has any moral opposition to defending yourself against police who are enforcing unjust laws. I think he would argue that it's a stupid idea though. I think he put it best when he was talking to a girl whose parents worked for the World Bank or some other nefarious statist organization on the call in show. You can't out-evil the evil people. You can't out-violence the state. The whole thing is predicated on its willingness and extremely competent ability to commit violence without regret or remorse. Trying to beat them at their own game at this point in history is just plain suicidal. I think there's a certain amount of self-preservation in mind for him as well. Someone earlier in this thread pointed that out by saying that if you support Cantwell's position you could go to jail for a long time. Similar to the reasons why earlier philosophers didn't go full monty and deny the validity of religious proclamations. If you go around in public telling people to shoot cops, you're going to have a bad time. That is, unless you're a gangster rapper from Compton.
PatrickC Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I'd still like to see a conversation between them. He's had some interesting enlightenment regarding male disposibility recently. I'd be interested to hear Stefan tease that journey out of him.
RandR10 Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I'd still like to see a conversation between them. He's had some interesting enlightenment regarding male disposibility. I'd be interested to hear Stefan tease that journey out of him. I think that purpose might be better served by just having him on the show as a guest. Not that a debate wouldn't be interesting to listen to, but I'm just not sure what they'd be disagreeing on.
PatrickC Posted July 17, 2014 Posted July 17, 2014 I think that purpose might be better served by just having him on the show as a guest. Not that a debate wouldn't be interesting to listen to, but I'm just not sure what they'd be disagreeing on. I wasn't suggesting a debate. I would just be interested to hear more around Chris's recent enlightenment that was all. After all, he has said Stefan was a huge part of that realisation. Seems fitting I thought.
DSEngere Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 has a great point here. IMO, As long as people refuse to use force against violent thugs (government), government will continue to exist.
fractional slacker Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 DSEngere, It appears to me Cantwell has divorced himself, to some extent, from his earlier rhetoric. I refer you to post #26 of this thread.
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