I am having trouble asking anyone out on a date.

[TruthahnDerRuin]

I do not know how many people have as much difficulty with this as I do. It seems that society has me backed into a corner where I can never hope for things to happen unless I make the first move. It would be easier if I had a little success in the past to draw on when I decide that I want to ask someone out. I am twenty-six years old and I have only been on one date and that only happened because I was asked out. There are a number of things that make it difficult and I only really want to focus on one of them in this thread.

 

Whenever I try to ask someone out, I start to think that it will only annoy the person I am asking. One of my sisters has told me several times that whenever she is asked out that it is one of the worst things that she has to deal with. The amount of time she has put into telling me how she does not want to be asked out and that she then dreads seeing the people who have asked her out, has me worrying about being judged harshly just for asking a simple question. Now the stories were of men who would ask her out several times even though she keeps saying no, but there was never a story of her being asked out and wanting to be asked out. So that leaves me thinking that when I approach a woman that she will never want me to ask her out even though that is not likely.

 

What I am asking for is for some of the women on this board to tell me a story about a time when you wanted to be asked out. I think if I can add some positive stories of when women want to be asked out I can then jump over this hurdle. Like I said before there is more to it than this, but this is one of the sticking points that I am not moving past. How often do you want to be asked out but then are not asked? If you do not want to be asked out, does it ruin your day?

[kalmia]

I am not one of the few women on here. But I will add a few things. Many men have this insecurity of believing that they will bother a woman by approaching her or asking her anything. I think there is a certain amount of self fulfilling results in this. The more you believe going in that you are bothering them, the more you will end up bothering them. If you convince yourself that you are going to add some type of value to their lives in this interaction, the more likely it will be that you actually add some value to their lives. Even if things don't go anywhere beyond this one interaction, and they decline your offer for more, they will act positively if they are of even slight emotional health. The men that your sister and other women are complaining about are the men who are approaching wrong. Remember that you are learning how to do this, and remind yourself that it is ok to make mistakes and do it wrong  and learn from your mistakes. Always stop yourself any time your get the urge to self attack. Rephrase everything, including your mistakes, in the positive.

 

As for the women's point of view, it helps to spend some time imagining this. Consider any women that puts any effort into getting attention. The more effort she puts in, the more of a return she is hoping for. If she puts in a lot of effort into getting the attention of men, and she does NOT get approached, she feels incredibly rejected.

 

My advice is to look into inner game type material. You are getting in your own way with self sabotaging thoughts.

 

Also, start with slow baby steps. Make an anxiety ladder of every thing involved in order of anxiety, and gradually push yourself up this ladder. Try things like regularly going out in public and making lots of direct eye contact. Try to keep a relaxed face or even a slight smile. think positive thoughts. Work on saying hello or whatever to lots of strange women. etc.

[meeri]

I have never felt that being asked out is anything negative. It has certainly never ruined my day. Quite the opposite, it's the kind of pleasant thing that I'll always remember. The couple of times I declined, the guys were very friendly and respectful of it (and a little humour always helps too), and overall they were positive experiences. 

[PatrickC]

Yes, I am surprised by your sisters response. Most women I've known have always enjoyed being asked out on dates. Of course I guess it depends on the way the guy approaches her and how she reacts to them perhaps. But even shy guys are mostly a charm for many ladies, even if they may not date them eventually.

 

Unfortunately, despite all rhetoric otherwise, it's pretty much down to us guys to make the first bolder steps in asking for dates. As a result we have to experience quite a bit of rejection at first. Rejection can be more or less painful dependent on ones history of course, so be conscious of your feelings and don't attempt to bulldoze through them. However, I think experiencing a certain amount of rejection, allows you to become more finally tuned (in time) to the signals women might be giving you. You'll get better at recognising those that are keen and those that are not.

 

Join some meet up groups in areas that interest you, such books, theatre or film clubs. It's not only a great way to meet likeminds, but you can also meet some more interesting women that way too.

[Wesley]

I would ask what would happen to you when you tried to express what you wanted?

 

My guess is it was met with scorn and disapproval by at least one parent. This is then normalized by you and your sister. Your sister views guys who ask her out who she doesn't want to go out with and an annoying inconvenience, rather than a compliment and she then reenforces the normalization to you. This leaves you not wanting to express preferences in general, and especially in dating relationships and a history of expressing preferences that was met with disdain, disapproval, and eventually self-attack.

 

If this is the case, then I am truly sorry for your experience.

 

What I would begin to realize is that if a woman shut you down and is negative to a simple question, then it is not someone you want to be with. If you had been with that person, then it would have been a recreation of the scorn and disdain for preferences that you experienced in the past. If these situations keep happening to you, I would analyze why you would keep asking out women who act in this way and specifically work to try and do something different in the future.

 

The way you know that the woman you are asking out might be worth it is that she politely declines or accepts, both of which are not a negative experience and just an expression of your preference, followed by her expressing her preference.

 

I did develop this from some personal experience with anxiety about asking women out as something similar happened with me.

[LovePrevails]

Hi I have some suggestions, would you like to Skype? my user name is amashaman

 

I used to not think any girl would ever like me as anything more than a friend and now I am glad to say since I have improved my self-esteem, communication skills, assertiveness, confidence and mental state I always have reasonable options when it comes to women. I have adorable female friendsand have had some good luck with romantic partners in the past, but I used to be in the habit of self-sabotage when it came to those kinds of things. I have luckily overcome that damaging repitition compulsion.

 

I would love to speak to you more.

 

Some basic suggestions you can start off with to improe your confidence is desensitisation. I think a great way to overcome the feal of social anxiety is to go stand at the mall at a weekend day and try and hold eye contact with everyone who passes, if you can hold eye contact and not feel nervous that is a great start, if you want to break eye contact, break it to the side! not down which projects low self-esteem and makes you feel low self-esteem

 

Once you have mastered this try saying "hi" to some people in a friendly way as they pass

maybe 70% will say hi and keep walking, 20% will ignore you and 10% will say something back soliciting a response

 

this all goes to retrain you that the world is not a scary place and most people are friendly

 

if you start enjoying this, then you can move on to some small talk

"I was wondering if you'd seen any good movies lately? I wanna go to something tonight"

 

I know small talk isn't very soul enriching but it's a great way to practice overcoming social anxiety by getting lots of practice talking to people

 

it will pave the way for feeling comfortable in more deep and meaningful interactions

 

ok I hope this helps

 

best of luck to you,

Antony

[Existing Alternatives]

Asking people out is very stressful. I think the only thing that’s annoying for women is being asked by a “wrong” guy or this general awkwardness of the situation. As cold as it may sound, all you need is practice and a tad of tough skin. No matter what, you will feel awkward, and worse, chances are most women will say “no.” But, by not asking the answer is already “no,” so you’ve got nothing to lose. On the flip-side, all you need is that one right person to say “yes.”   

 

All the best!

[Duderio]

goodbye

[cherapple]

What do you think about the idea of looking at it as a gift every time a woman tells you No?

 

That's not to say it won't be difficult to hear, and it won't hurt, but that's one less woman for you to get involved with and have it not work out. You don't want the ones who tell you no, anyway. They're being up front and honest right away that they're looking for something else. They may not know you, and if not, they're saying they don't want to know you. There's no greater expression of a lack of curiosity than "No" (depending upon how it's expressed).

 

My thoughts: "Wow, thank you very much for being so clear and allowing me to move on to someone who might actually want to know me." Next! (With a smile.)

[tasmlab]

I never found 'asking girls out' to be the best method of getting together.  Usually I would (and really just about everyone) would end up at the same places with the girls they liked be it class, a club, a bar, parties at mutual friends house, wherever.  And then you can invest all sorts of time getting to know each other, putting out feelers, having chuckles or nice talks or whatever.  And by the time you want to invite them out for a beer or for icecream, you are already great acquaintances/friends.

 

Going on a date with somebody I didn't know very well sounds torturous. 

 

(disclosure: I've been with the same lady since 1995.  I haven't been in your situation in a looooonnng time)

[Panoptic]

I never found 'asking girls out' to be the best method of getting together.  Usually I would (and really just about everyone) would end up at the same places with the girls they liked be it class, a club, a bar, parties at mutual friends house, wherever.  And then you can invest all sorts of time getting to know each other, putting out feelers, having chuckles or nice talks or whatever.  And by the time you want to invite them out for a beer or for icecream, you are already great acquaintances/friends.

 

Going on a date with somebody I didn't know very well sounds torturous. 

 

(disclosure: I've been with the same lady since 1995.  I haven't been in your situation in a looooonnng time)

 

This is something to think about^

 

I've always accepted the "get to know first" way, where you become friends with them first before you take it further. But then, for the people I've known to do this, they get to the point where they have established a friendship with them and want to advance the relationship, then they come to me and say I don't know what to do, I don't want to "ruin" the friendship. Of course, if the relationship advances and is good, you would still be good friends (or else it would be horrible), and if you try and it doesn't work, and it ruins the friendship, maybe you don't want to be friends with them (assuming you did the correct things).

[DaisyAnarchist]

Have you answered the following questions for yourself? : Why date in the first place? What are your future goals? What do you look for in a woman? What qualities?

 

This sounds to me that you just want to randomly ask out women, that is a baaaaaaaaaaaad idea, and since you already told us about your sister, we can imagine your mom wasn't exactly the nicest person on the planet either, basically, you haven't figured out that you should stay away from women like your female familial role models. Less rejection. (have you read the Simon the Boxer thing?)

 

Have you listened to FDR podcasts on "How to meet a nice girl?" dating and so on?

 

 

I agree with Thomas' post here, I would begin by asking yourself more fundamental questions. What is your history with your parents/family and rejection? Why do you want to ask a girl out? Is it a random girl you want, or do you have your values figured out? If you have an idea of your values, then I imagine you don't want to just ask out a random girl, right? In which case, you may want to get involved in activities or networking that mesh with your values so that you meet a girl who already has similar values. I also think that the podcast he mentioned from Stef would be helpful, I believe Stef mentions the aligning values thing there. 

 

As someone who got out of a relationship several months ago and is now single, the most important thing to me right now is not how to ask a guy out or how to even find "the right guy." I am concerned with my relationship with myself. What is your relationship with yourself and could it be explored further in order to help you with things like this? How well do you know yourself? That may or may not be an approach you want to take.

 

Cheers.

[MysterionMuffles]

How very odd that your sister detests being asked out. Either she is being approached by really creepy guys or she has a horrible stuck up princess complex. Either way you shouldn't let yourself think other women will be like your sister. Most women will take it as a compliment even if they don't want to go out with you.

 

I'm almost in the same boat as you, so I'm not sure if my experience can help you out that much, but we shall see. Wesley and Cherapple stole the words right out of my mouth. You really do need to evaluate the home life and see why you may be feeling this way, and also understand that any chance you take to simply interact with a woman will be a gift. It brings you only that much closer per interaction, as long as you're just being friendly and not too pushy.

 

Anyways, here's my experience:

 

Each time I've chosen to talk to a woman, the same thing happened. I had moments of fear and anxiety before I ever opened my mouth, but once I decided to not over think it and be damned with the outcome, I repeat BE DAMNED WITH THE OUTCOME, I simply walked up to them and started talking. About what? Who cares? It doesn't matter. As long as you're talking about something relevant and something they can easily respond to, you can just wait and see how they respond to you. And most importantly, express yourself in a way that communicates that you feel worthy in their presence. They won't acknowledge your existence until you make it known.

 

For instance there was this woman in my creative writing class a few years back who I spent weeks fawning over. I was filled with absolute dread at the idea of simply going up to her and talking to her. One day our teacher read to us from some children's books just to show us that they are equally as hard to write as an adult novel because you have to be concise in a short amount of time. Anyway, by this time, weeks had already past and I finally decided to at least sit in the same row as this woman. When we were allowed out for a break, I simply walked to that woman's side and said, "you know today's class kind of reminded me of how we used to go to the library in kindergarten class, and have the librarian read to us."

 

Then she smiled and responded about how she was reminded of what she was doing earlier that day: which was reading to kids at a daycare that she works at. And from there I spent the whole break talking to her about a bunch of stuff and well...I was happier than ever about it. It meant that I never had to worry about what she would think of me because I gave her a first hand experience of who I was by being open enough to go and talk to her.

 

Moral of the story: you never know unless you try. If you don't try at all, it's a guarantee fail. If you DO try, well you can still fail, but even those failures will teach you more for next time you. For the woman in my example, I started off strong and genuine, and was not at all wrapped up about what she thought of me. I simply took pleasure in her company and was thankful that she welcomed me into it. However, sorry to break the mood here, I eventually started talking about music with her and a bit of my music nazi-ism (from back then) seeped into our interaction and I don't know if I was coming off as rude when I was trash talking the music I DIDN'T like.

 

For each interaction, look at how they turned out as objectively as you possibly can without rooting for yourself too much, neither beating yourself up either. Just take the time to make a mental note of pros and cons. In this case the pros were: I opened up with a statement she just so happened to connect with strongly, however the con would be that I got too cocky near the end.

 

I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at here, but basically:

[*]You will always regret NOT talking to a woman you know you really wanted to talk to

[*]But you will never regret the times you simply took the chance to talk to one

[*]Even in a rejection, no matter how mild or extreme, you can always look back and learn why it turned out the way it did

[*]Any woman who rejects you with hostility is a woman you don't want to date in the first place

[*]How they choose to respond to you says a lot about their character anyway

[*]The more time you spend overthinking of a negative outcome, the more likely you will create that negative outcome

[*]Take it easy on yourself if an interaction goes awry and always remember what you DID do right to even land the conversation in the first place

[*]Relieve yourself of the pressure of "dating" and simply try to create a network of female friends so you can learn to become comfortable around them first

I would also suggest, in addition to what LovePrevails said about shy busting exercises, try making small talk with female cashiers. They're there to be friendly anyway right? It's their job. In fact you can brighten up one of their days if they've been at the shop for too long mindlessly scanning people's items. I find that talking to them without even the intention of asking them out will work wonders on building your self confidence. You really don't have to ask out every woman you talk to in public and especially not the female cashiers. Either way, just take the chance to bust some jokes with them when they process your purchases and let an otherwise boring interaction be fun. They are small confidence boosts but they really add up the more you do it.

 

You may start off seeing as each opportunity to talk a cashier as mere practice, but the more you do it and the less you see it as practice, the more genuine you will become in simply bringing some light to their days (and hopefully vice versa).

 

I have a few more anecdotes about my own personal experiences in overcoming the fear of simply talking to random women in public, but for now I hope all this will suffice. Plus I want to allow room for other people and their own feedback.

[Wesley]

Podcast I listened to today relating to this:

http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_898_How_to_Meet_A_Nice_Girl.mp3

[TruthahnDerRuin]

Thank you for your replies.

 

Austin has a good swing dancing community and I have been going out a couple times a week for about three months. I have worked on approaching, asking women to dance and talking while dancing. I can be comfortable while doing all of these things. I have no intention of asking a lot of women out. But there is one woman I have met there that I have been really enjoying spending time with and I want to be able to spend more than five minutes at a time talking with her.

 

Have you answered the following questions for yourself? : Why date in the first place? What are your future goals? What do you look for in a woman? What qualities?

 

I have been journaling and I am looking for a therapist. I understand how important self-work is if I want to have good relationships. One of the things I am working on is letting go of perfectionism. I could do more self-work before pursuing a romantic relationship, but I think I would just be letting my perfectionism block me from what I want in life. What I am looking for is a woman who is also interested in self-work. Another one of the things I am working on is my loneliness and I think finding someone who is making the same effort that I am would be really wonderful.

[LovePrevails]

I would like some feedback on my suggestions.

[TruthahnDerRuin]

I would like some feedback on my suggestions.

 

I have known for more than ten years that I have social anxiety. Almost every place I have looked for suggestions on how to treat social anxiety focuses on desensitization. So to have someone suggest desensitization is not very helpful. I have tried it several different ways before, including a way similar to what you suggested, also with the help of a therapist. But I have not had much success until I started swing dancing. Swing dancing has a few advantages over the other things I have tried. So I do not have as much of a general anxiety problem anymore. I did mean to write into the original post that I was looking for help with asking a woman out (which I do not have a handle on) specifically, rather than general anxiety (which I do have a handle on).

[Lens]

I have known for more than ten years that I have social anxiety.

 

Social anxiety = strong feelings of fear. There must be something that happened to you when you were small that traumatized you. You maybe disconnected from the event (memory) but the feeling of fear is still with you try to work on that. Journaling about your fear and the situations that trigger it is a good idea in my point of view.

 

The best and most beautiful relationship that you may seek is the one you can have with yourself because no one can really make you happy as long as you do not love yourself and accept your feelings as they present themselves (empathy).

 

The fear when you ask someone to go out with you is not your enemy but a signal that the situation you are in is familiar to your body memory. Sometimes the fear may signal you to leave that situation to not to betray yourself it may also be a trigger to an old and early rejection from your mother (caretaker) when you were a toddler for example left alone in the crib or as a needy small child that couldn't please his mother (perfectionism), a therapist can help you get in touch with those feelings of shame and rejection.

 

Getting in a relationship without therapy may put you in a codependent pattern, repeating your past and choosing a parental figure as replacement for the original mother (or who ever rejected you in your early life) it is a self defeating strategy in order for you to bring a fix to the past that can never be fixed but acknowledged and mourned.

 

Good luck 

 

Lens

[Wesley]

I would agree with Lens. The goal for putting a band-aid on the problem is desensitization. Hopefully your feelings will be repressed enough to get by.

 

Trying to actually solve it involves finding the origins of the emotion and experiencing it. Once you are able to empathize with yourself, you will be able to want to not go there again and work to change things. You can only change once you know and experience the events that created it. Getting help from a good therapist can be invaluable.

[aFireInside]

I have some anxiety yet I still have had many partners, not so much after being a freedomain listener.

 

I'll tell you want I did.

Don't think of it as asking girls out of the blue. First of course work on yourself. But put yourself out there talk to girls you don't find physically attractive. Just surround yourself with opportunities to meet women.

I always made a girl know me and like me before I asked her out , and remember to show your interest in the girl. Flirting . These things come natural you know when there is a mutual attractiveness, your body is smarter than you. You just have to give yourself more exposure . Join a yoga club . Swimming , things you know where it won't be a winni fest.

 

Trust me.

[Guest Exceptionalist]

I allways ask myself why don't the chicks take the risk of asking someone out? Couldn't they handle a rejection or just want to have the upper hand in this situation? With the words of theignoredgender, if those are the rules of the game, I don't play. The refusal of the stereotypical approach.

 

Otherwise it is a good indicator of a scam, if a girl start asking you out. At least in my case.

[LovePrevails]

I allways ask myself why don't the chicks take the risk of asking someone out? Couldn't they handle a rejection or just want to have the upper hand in this situation? With the words of theignoredgender, if those are the rules of the game, I don't play. The refusal of the stereotypical approach.

 

Otherwise it is a good indicator of a scam, if a girl start asking you out. At least in my case.

 

They don't do it because they don't have to in most cases.

If I could stand by the bar and play with my hair in order to get women to approach me I would do that instead.