Spanking E-Card I Saw

[seventwentyseven]

I saw this posted on Facebook. I made a couple of edits and reposted it. I was wondering how many people would find it as funny as the original.

 

[J-William]

hahaha that's hilarious!

 

My goal with facebook is to not have any people who find that funny as friends.

[Wesley]

When I hit my kids to solve problems, it teaches them that hitting people is ABSOLUTELY NOT acceptable and that hitting kids is wrong. In fact, to make sure my kids don't hit and bully people, I am going to go hit and bully them right now. That will teach them a lesson.

 

I cannot understand the doublethink that people praise. It is baffling.

[ErinGo]

UGH, this despicable thing appeared in my FB feed this morning. Shared by my cousin with an "oh yes!". No wonder her daughter joined the navy.

[nathanm]

Since it works so well, it should be expanded to marriages, the workplace and retail establishments.  Smack your wife, smack your husband, punch your boss, slap a cashier.  Everyone will learn their place and then just watch the excellence flow!  Eventually we can get back to crucifixion and gladatorial combat, it will be like another renaissance I tell you!  Instead of the Thumbs Up icon we can switch to the Open Hand.  This video was OK, but not as good as it could be, so I spanked it.  Now the next one will be awesome.  A society of perpetually bruised flesh is an enlightened society!

[MysterionMuffles]

[sarcasm]Oh, no, but you see nathan, kids are uncontrollable little animals that need to be domesticated first. If you're kind to them you give into their cries and all that crap, they learn to take advantage of you![/sarcasm]

 

I can never understand how ingrained that crap is to people.

[ErinGo]

I posted this as a status. My cousin probably didn't even notice it but I wish I could screen shot the comments! WOW! Maybe I'll go figure out how to use my laptop just for that.

John: dislike. I got my ass smacked plenty and I thank my folks for it now. I have only spanked my son a few times over the last ten yrs but he knows it's a possibility

 

 

13 hours ago · Like..

 

Ben: Ya if you attack your children its abuse my dad spanked me as a punishment and that's what it was he told how many I was getting it stopped then and I never had to worry he was going to beat me to death ... there is a differents if your a good parent you know how to separate the two.

 

 

12 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

Kevin: There is a difference. There may be dissagreement over ANY use of corporal punishment, which I understand, but to label it abuse is a stretch. A propper and rare spanking for discipline where other measures have failed, has been proven very succesful, with no negative emotional effects for the children if the punishemnt is applied reasonably (no beatings) and with love. If giving a spank is truly considered physical abuse, then so is criticism, inattentiveness, holding too tight, letting children learn lessons the hardest way, and failing to give them all they need to succeed in life. Point being, there is a difference between a beating and a spanking, maybe that is part af the problem? Jst saying. I have been spanked for cause, I have been beating for not; even as a child, I knew the difference.

 

 

10 hours ago · Like..

 

Erin (Me): I'm so sorry that happened to you all. Really.

 

 

7 hours ago · Like..

 

 

Ben: I'm not

 

 

7 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

Erin: (whoops, can't push enter to skip to a new line) I am sorry that happened to you all. The common theme between the three pictures is violence. Spanking is hitting and I'm not going to use the euphamism anymore. Hitting is violence and that is the meaning of the picture. If this post is pushing buttons for you or picking at your scabs, I hope you will take some time to examine those feelings. A lot of us are not happy with the way things are going in this world. There is too much violence and too much "authority" and too much "respect" demanded by those "authorities" and enforced with violence. It's pretty much out of our control. We can control what happens in our homes and control whether or not we hit our children. I want my children to know without a doubt that they own their bodies. If anybody ever hits them or touches them in a bad way, I want them to be absolutely shocked and appalled and freak out. A child who has been hit doesn't feel that ownership over thier body. Our kids are really just lucky or unlucky to be born to whatever parents they get, they're like prisoners and have no choice in the matter at all. But it's immoral to hit our prisoners. I have some more to say, but not the time right this second. I hope that you guys will at least give what I have to say thoughtful consideration.

 

 

5 hours ago · Like · 1..

 

Kevin: Thanks Erin, I look forward to reading more. Buttons? Yes, but perhaps in a way that is other than internal guilt (the reasons most have button pushing responses). Violence in general, yes; far too much these days.

 

 

5 hours ago · Like..

 

John: Erin, respectfully I completely disagree. Using my own experiences and those of my 4 sisters and two brothers, physical discipline not only kept us in line but it taught us that real love is teaching your children that there are boundaries and every time you cross those, there are consequences. I didn't get spanked for every little thing, but if I disrespected my mother or talked back.. I was gonna catch hell. As an adult and a father now, I have a great appreciation for the wonderful job both my folks did. I hope I can mimic their example.

 

 

4 hours ago · Like..

 

 

David (My husband): I'm going to go home and beat the s*** out of my kids because I love them I want to teach them respect violence solves everything

 

 

3 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

John: Maybe your dad should have bent you over his knee. Cause a smart mouth doesn't get you far. Maybe here in fb land.. but not in the real world

 

 

3 hours ago · Like..

 

 

Erin: *conversation devolving*

 

 

3 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

 

John: Point taken. It is possible to have a thread without sarcastic bs. I've seen it. Again... respectfully agree to disagree

 

 

3 hours ago · Like..

 

 

KK (my daughter): Lol butthurt^

 

 

2 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

 

Erin: KK, Respect your elders (for no reason) or I'm gonna hit you and teach you respect.

 

 

2 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

 

Erin: There's bound to be a whole lotta butthurt in a conversation about spanking. I really would like to try to keep this civil guys and gals. If we try to be funny, it can be seen as an attack. Also, not knowing exactly what each of us went through, we should try a little sensitivity.

 

 

2 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1..

 

 

KK: Go beat up the other two. They're reeaaallllyy bad cause you never do.

 

 

2 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

 

Erin: BRB, dinner is ready

 

 

2 hours ago via mobile · Like..

 

 

Erin: OK, so let's all assume that none of us are sadists who gain pleasure from hitting kids. I'll take it a step further assume it is actually unpleasant for all involved. It would then be logical to look for an alternative. If people are already conditioned from childhood that there are times when no alternative exists then it would be illogical to look for one. We don't go looking for things we know aren't there. So, it's important to think critically about the beliefs we hold and examine them for truth and consider that some of our beliefs could be based on erroneous information or based only our own narrow experiences in the absence of contradictory evidence.

 

A person isn't going to find alternatives that work if they don't look for them. So, I will first challenge the assumption that there are times where no alternative exists.

 

 

2 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1

[MysterionMuffles]

YIKES people are so twisted...they really love to justify that it's okay huh? We have a long way to go if we are to change the world. It must start with pulling people's heads out of their asses.

One of my number one arguments against the idea of "spanking with love," or not doing it too often is this:

 

If spanking is not beating a child, then groping a woman's body is not rape.

 

Really, it's not.

 

But it's a violation of their personhood and that's all that matters.

 

Whoever you argue this with, if they get offended by the comparison and start attacking you for using something so "disgusting" and "offensive," they have far bigger problems than you will initially realize.

BTW when you said: Erin: KK, Respect your elders (for no reason) or I'm gonna hit you and teach you respect.

I actually wanted to try clicking like LOL

[RestoringGuy]

If spanking is not beating a child, then groping a woman's body is not rape.

 

Really, it's not.

 

But it's a violation of their personhood and that's all that matters.

The violation of personhood argument works more irrevocably for circumcision.  I could forgive spanking and groping.  When institutionalized and joked about, people just harm children more.  Afterwards, we hear about how bad school bullying is.

[Euphoric]

@Erin

 

Funny how the people who were spanked have a hard time accepting the butthurt they have because of it.

[ErinGo]

John: My girlfriend is a teacher. She is always complaining that the children of today have no respect. Not for their parents or parent(in many cases), not for their teachers or anyone in authority and not for themselves. There is NO discipline that sets parameters of acceptable behavior. They realize that the consequences are not anything to worry about. In their mind, if they don't agree with the teacher they can tell that teacher to go f*** themselves. There comes a point when "time out" has no bite. When taking away electronics or treats or whatever the kid loves has no effect. Why do drill instructors use intimidation to mold wise ass punks into professional soldiers? Why don't you speed 90 MPH in a 35 MPH zone? Fear. Fear of a ticket. Fear of screwing up. Fear of receiving a few swats on the bottom. When I was young, I didn't talk back to my mother because it was wrong. I didn't talk back because I didn't want my bottom to be red. Later on I understood that talking back was disrespectful.
My son is a very different child than I was. I've spanked him probably three times in his brief ten years. Each time wasn't done in a fit of rage. I wasn't yelling at him. It was two or three swats to get his attention and to send a message that he really screwed up.
You don't wanna spank your kid, fine. You wanna "use your words" fine. What works for some may not work for others. As a child, I would have drove Dr. Phil to drink heavily. That time out bit would have never changed my rebellious behavior. My point is, just because you don't agree with a certain parenting style doesn't mean it's wrong. My son loves his father as I love mine.

 

KK: Fear isn't the kind of feeling you want to inspire in your children or students. Children can grow up and choose to be professional soldiers but that is a choice they make as adults. Children don't choose to be children, they just are and teaching them that fear and respect is the same thing is how to make sheep.

 

John :Do you allow a small child to touch a hot burner? No. They don't know any better. You tell them NO in a stern voice to send a message that it will hurt them if they do. Consequences. Without consequences that clearly divert unacceptable behavior children will grow up without respect. Maybe time out works for you and that's great. But to judge another parent cause they do things different is shallow. You don't have to agree. But to criticize a different parenting style of your own is in my opinion naïve.

 

Deb: There is a huge difference between a spanking and hitting. Hitting is abuse. Spanking is given to discipline. It should be done in love, not in anger. Children know they are loved when they have clear boundaries. And a spanking is not in order every time a child disobeys. It should be only one of many disciplinary actions. Verbal direction, no t.v, no electronics, no socializing with friends for a time. But sometimes a smack on the behind is the most effective. Wow, Erin....you know how to get a conversation going.

 

KK: What if your wife screws up? Can you spank her as long as she knows you love her?

 

Deb: Nope. Big difference there.

 

John: Yes. But just enough to not leave any bruises. My gf screws up all the time and I spank her repeatedly. I think she enjoys it though

 

Erin: Since about 80% of parents hit their children, I don't think it's fair to say a lack of corporeal punishment is the cause of these "bad" children. Wouldn't it be the other 20% raised in peaceful homes that were bad? It doesn't add up. I am not being shallow, nor have I insulted anybody. If you feel defensive, it has nothing to do with me. I was pointing out that hitting kids is violence and there is nothing wrong with me bringing this up so that other people can tumble the thought around in their heads or so that we can discuss it.
John, why were you such a bad kid if the spankings were working?
http://nospank.net/pt2011.htm
"Researchers have also found that children who are spanked show higher rates of aggression and delinquency in childhood than those who were not spanked. As adults, they are more prone to depression, feelings of alienation, use of violence toward a spouse, and lower economic and professional achievement. None of this is what we want for our children."
Alvin Poussaint, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School. From "Spanking Strikes Out" , 1999.

 

Erin: "Many people initially respond to the evidence against spanking with skepticism. Some reject it outright. Some refuse to think about it or may even become annoyed or hostile because this information can awaken repressed feelings. Don't let that discourage you. There are others who want to know why the old familiar method for socializing children works so poorly. And there are those who already are raising their children without violence but need reassurance that they are on the right track.

We are confident that some day soon civilized humanity will look back with astonishment and pity at the time when people believed hitting children was good for them."

Erin: http://nospank.net/talbot3.htm

http://nospank.net/talbot3.htmhttp://nospank.net/talbot3.htm

The Debate on Spanking is Deadnospank.net

The most substantial indicator of this development is evidenced by the fact that... virtually every professional organization in the U.S. and Canada concerned with the care and treatment of children, has taken a public stance against the practice of spanking.

 

　

Erin: If anybody gives a shit, this is what set me off this morning and I cannot believe that pointing out that spanking is violent is MORE controversial.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/.../R2Y7T7wo5cI/s1600/spanking.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kvuo-rcPMZY/UB3mG0928iI/AAAAAAAAC-Y/R2Y7T7wo5cI/s1600/spanking.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kvuo-rcPMZY/UB3mG0928iI/AAAAAAAAC-Y/R2Y7T7wo5cI/s1600/spanking.jpg

 

Erin: John, you say you didn't talk back to your mother because you understood it was wrong, but because you didn't want a red bottom and that later you understood that back talking was wrong. It seems pretty bad to me to smack someone who can't yet comprehend the reason why what they've done is wrong, especially such a petty grievance. I'm surprised you didn't pull out the running in the street scenario instead. Fear and respect are not the same thing and I never want my children to fear me and demanding respect is futile.

 

　

KK: I can't ever recall being hit and there isn't anyone I respect MORE than my mother.

 

　

Kevin: Bottom line, we all have our preferences that have a really strong link to how we were raised. No of us want to think how we were raised was imperfect, but it is the truth. If dammage was done to us, we aren't ware of it until we learn another way, but we need to be willing to do so. In the end, we all still have our preferences. The problem with labeling any and all spanking as abuse, is that it does make it personal for those who dissagree (like it or not, the label applies to those who practice the behavior thus labeled). It changes from "What are the pros and cons of corporal punishment and other discipline techniques" to "If you choose to spank your child at all, you are an abuser, thus subject to the law" (research social services and DCF complaints). Defensiveness? Perhaps, but I think it reasonable. Bottom line, some parents spank their children appropriately with great success in the long term effect. Some parents never, under any circumstances, would spank them, with great success. Many do a miriad of things to their children with very poor success. Doing anything in anger creates problems (spanking or other), approopriate discipline with unconditional love proves the most effective for the long term emotional well being of children.

 

　

Erin: I haven't used the word abuse and I have tried not to be insulting. I know the picture is very provocative, that was the point. I'm not calling people monsters or calling for laws or DCF. I totally understand that there is black, white, and shades of gray. It's the shades of gray that we disagree on because in any issue it is the gray that needs clarification. It's not a matter of personal preference. Chocolate vs Vanilla ice cream is a matter of personal preference.
The picture depicts hitting in all 3 frames. I don't look to the law for my moral ideas. The difference for me is not that 2 of the pictures show illegal acts and the third is legal. There is no difference except that the 3rd victim is a child and has no power to defend herself or remove herself. Her most important personal property, herself, her body, is being violated. She is being set up to accept that in the future. She is also being taught that violence solves problems. We've got teenagers killing teenagers because "he disrespected me".
If she is truly unreasonable, unable to be reasoned with, she is handicapped. Hitting handicapped people is bogus and not socially acceptable. If she can't be reasoned with, how can she understand the reasoning behind the hitting? If she doesn't understand why she is being hit, then being hit is just some random violence coming from her caretaker out of the blue. The person she depends on to keep her alive is scary.
If she IS capable of reason, hitting becomes unnecessary. If hitting is unnecessary, why do it? Because it's easier? because it's not that bad? Because other people expect you to? Because your impatient and demand immediate compliance? because you're really fucking pissed/insulted/scared?
I think it's more like the gray areas haven't been cleared up. People hit their kids because they don't know what else to do. (Abusers not included here!) Without a model of peaceful parenting, without a close basis of comparison besides their own upbringing, without peers who speak their minds, etc. and add to that mix a general support (not just acceptance!) of it, and the natural inclination to stick to what you know, then we have a whole bunch of unenlightened spankers raising a future generation of spankers.
(Unenlightened is not an insult and not meant as such!)
I have presented my philosophy here and tried to support it with logic and evidence. If I'm shaking up anybody's shit here, that's not a bad thing. What you decide to do or how you feel about it is beyond my control. I can only recommend introspection, perhaps guided by talk therapy. (Again, not an insult or condescending - I have done therapy and will do it again).
A bigoted idea (I know, another loaded word) is an idea that isn't based in fact, but in false conception. To not be tricked into bigoted thinking, we have to be exposed to truth and apply reason. This means we have to explore and consider ideas that aren't the one's we currently hold and then think critically about them and decide. Nobody learns anything in an ideological circle jerk.
My ideas are unenforceable upon you, as yours are unenforceable to me. It's societal pressure and acceptance or rejection that turns the tide in societies behavior.
I was truly shocked to see that pro-spanking post that triggered my post, and I put myself and my ideas "out there" in the hope that someone "out there" will pick up what I'm saying. Whether it's a parent who decides to look for alternatives, a victim who decides to break the cycle, or a supporter of the philosophy that feels silenced.

 

　

Aimee: My father NEVER raised his hand to me....And I listened to his words

 

　

Aimee: I'm not perfect. ..no kid is...but I respect my father

 

　

Kevin: Hey Erin, I understand you are not accusing anyone in particular. I do get it. The downside of people relying on media such as facebook, text and other forms of communication is that 80% of the messages we are trying to communicate are contained in our tone and body language, none if which is present with fonts produced by a keyboard. Your post, for me, is tied to a larger debate that is currently going on. I suspect that people's responses to it are heavily impacted by it. Being aware of what abuse it, what violence is, and quite honestly, what neglect is, in all it's degrees, is a good thing. First and foremost, thank you for sharing it. Though the larger, broader patterns in families are shared greatly by many (none of us are exceptions to the rule), our individual experiences are specifically unique to our own experience. All perspectives have valid positions to whatever degree. We need to sort most things out for ourselves based on our beliefs, circumstances and abilities. I roll along the lines of "I do want my children to be respectful (the traditional definition respectful). I wish never to have my children fear me, be it violence, conditional love, or perception of neglect on their part. A tough thing to achieve in a world where the shared values of the past are no longer shared by the world we live in. Rearing children is a far greater challenge in that respect these days than it used to be.

　

 

 

I really need to clean up my friends list!

[MysterionMuffles]

That John guy sounds like a real asshole. 

Erin: Since about 80% of parents hit their children, I don't think it's fair to say a lack of corporeal punishment is the cause of these "bad" children. Wouldn't it be the other 20% raised in peaceful homes that were bad? It doesn't add up. 

 

THAT is an epic argument! So true. Kids these days have NO respect BECAUSE of the abuse. If such a vast majority still hit their kids and the majority of kids grow up with no respect...ugh what an axiom!

I love how people think they can sanely say that you can spank WITHOUT anger and WITH LOVE...if that's the case, then you can steal with generousity!

[Alan H]

My personal favorite is "John :Do you allow a small child to touch a hot burner? No. They don't know any better. You tell them NO in a stern voice to send a message that it will hurt them if they do." Because pain is bad unless it comes from daddy.

 

Kevins statement, "The problem with labeling any and all spanking as abuse, is that it does make it personal for those who dissagree (like it or not, the label applies to those who practice the behavior thus labeled). It changes from "What are the pros and cons of corporal punishment and other discipline techniques" to "If you choose to spank your child at all, you are an abuser, thus subject to the law" (research social services and DCF complaints).", made me sick to my stomach.

 

We wouldn't want parents to be afraid of being "subject to the law" which, taken to it's logical conclusion, is corporal punishment, but its nessisary for our children to fear it? gross.