God, Prove Yourself

[seventwentyseven]

God allegedly has all eternity to do whatever it wants to do. How about scrambling the phases of the moon so a full moon occurs the night after a new moon? How about making it hot and sunny at the north pole on December 21? How about giving me six pack abs tomorrow morning? Or even write "God was here" in the clouds? Jesus proved he was Jesus on Family Guy by expanding Lois' bust at the dinner table. It took less than 5 seconds.

 

So this god refuses to take 5 minutes out of its precious eternity to prove it exists to people it "loves" but will spend an eternity punishing the same people for not believing?

 

[Kawlinz]

Silly mortal! thinking you're important enough to test the almighty, for him to show himself just because you want answers! He work in mysterious ways!

[Philosophiza]

thank you for a good laugh

[wdiaz03]

Silly mortal! thinking you're important enough to test the almighty, for him to show himself just because you want answers! He work in mysterious ways!

 Amen to that, brother. The whole point of the experiment is not to interfere. Any of the OP suggestions would result in chaos. Everyone would start claiming it was "their" god providing the signs, sinking the world into holly war once again. Last time god tried miracles and such there were crusades and mass murder in the new world in order to spread his gospel, He is not going to do that again.

 

To an eternal being we are but a mere petri dish, and experiment gone wrong, our existence a blink of an eye (If he had or needed eyes)

[Phillip Brix]

God has proven himself to me.

i tried to commit suicide, and either god or some supernatural force physically prevented me from doing so,

i still have not clue why.

i don't know whether i have "the correct religion" if such a thing exists. but as far as i can tell, God does value life.

[wdiaz03]

God has proven himself to me.

i tried to commit suicide, and either god or some supernatural force physically prevented me from doing so,

i still have not clue why.

i don't know whether i have "the correct religion" if such a thing exists. but as far as i can tell, God does value life.

Oh wow, And how did you try to do it?

And why would the all mighty keep you in this world to suffer when you could have had eternal bliss in the afterlife?

I think you just got unlucky. He is not known to interfere this way.

[MysterionMuffles]

Philip, credit should be given where it's due. I won't tell you whether or not God is real if you still believe in him, but that's unimportant. YOU prevented yourself from committing suicide because a part of you valued your life. It had nothing to do with intervention by a cosmic unseen force.

[Phillip Brix]

so, if you really wnat the whole story, pm me and i'll give it to you.

i tried to commit suicide by banging my head against a table as hard i could repeatly.

after the third attempt, i physically felt a finger prevent me from doing so a fourth time but could see nothing.

not only that but no had no bumps, buises, bleeding, abrations, or even a cuncussion.

[wdiaz03]

Sounds like the Noodly Appendage of the FSM!

[stephen123]

but even today..there r so many healing n miracles taking place ..so many...all through out the world! the blind can see..deaf people can hear etc.. yes no reported case of amputees being healed. now science deems these as some "placebo effect". n i go wtf? btw believ there is a God bt dont follow Him

[Panoptic]

I say, if power corrupts, then is God the devil?

[Wesley]

I say, if power corrupts, then is God the devil?

No, God kills millions. The devil only killed a few people in the Bible and after getting permission from God.

The devil whom everyone knows is evil could never do the damage that a God could. If God were the devil he would lose most of his killing power.

[Mike Fleming]

The second coming arrives.

 

"So, God, we have reason to believe you have been involved in genocide and mass murder.  How do you plead?"

 

The Romans got it right if you ask me, although I don't condone capital punishment.   But the great and wise God says it's OK, so I guess I'm wrong.

[wdiaz03]

No, God kills millions. The devil only killed a few people in the Bible and after getting permission from God.

The devil whom everyone knows is evil could never do the damage that a God could. If God were the devil he would lose most of his killing power.

 

But isn't all these murders a mute point? one could argue that he just alleviated their suffering here on earth with a one way ticket to heaven where they all now live in eternal bliss.

 

For religion death is just a transition. Even pain and suffering can get a free pass. After all what's a life of pain and suffering compared to eternal joy in heaven? a small price to pay I say. So God just inflicts this things to teach people stuff and once they learn it they go to heaven for eternity. win win.

[Wesley]

But isn't all these murders a mute point? one could argue that he just alleviated their suffering here on earth with a one way ticket to heaven where they all now live in eternal bliss.

 

For religion death is just a transition. Even pain and suffering can get a free pass. After all what's a life of pain and suffering compared to eternal joy in heaven? a small price to pay I say. So God just inflicts this things to teach people stuff and once they learn it they go to heaven for eternity. win win.

Not when God orders "Thou shalt not kill".

 

And every Christian who is asked whether God killed more people or Satan killed more people will say Satan.

 

And every Christian who is asked whether God killed more INNOCENT people or Satan killed more people will say Satan.

 

After the shock of the hundreds of thousands of times more people that God has killed over Satan, then they may explain it away, but it is a big thing. Most people think they worship God because he is good, not powerful. Thus, God being more evil than Satan is still shocking.

 

For me, my first steps towards atheism were

 

1. Figuring out there were contradictions in the Bible and wanting to know what was true.

 

2. Figuring out that by any true definition of evil, God (if he existed) was insanely evil.

 

3. God itself is contradictory and does not exist.

 

Those charts were step 2 for me.

[Mike Fleming]

 

2. Figuring out that by any true definition of evil, God (if he existed) was insanely evil.

 

Yeah, it was kind of like a "oh, thank God, God doesn't exist".  Pun intended.   Having such an evil powerful entity would be truly scary.  Especially considering how petty and arbitrary he is.  He's like my mother was/is.  You never know what the rules really are or what might set them off at any instant into a blinding rage so you end up just not doing much less it upset them.   Or like the government for that matter.  But I guess it's all the same thing really...

[wdiaz03]

Not when God orders "Thou shalt not kill".

 

And every Christian who is asked whether God killed more people or Satan killed more people will say Satan.

 

And every Christian who is asked whether God killed more INNOCENT people or Satan killed more people will say Satan.

 

After the shock of the hundreds of thousands of times more people that God has killed over Satan, then they may explain it away, but it is a big thing. Most people think they worship God because he is good, not powerful. Thus, God being more evil than Satan is still shocking.

 

For me, my first steps towards atheism were

 

1. Figuring out there were contradictions in the Bible and wanting to know what was true.

 

2. Figuring out that by any true definition of evil, God (if he existed) was insanely evil.

 

3. God itself is contradictory and does not exist.

 

Those charts were step 2 for me.

 

I don't see anything wrong with "Thou shalt not kill" and God killing people.

 

Think about this for a second.

 

If God places people on earth for a reason. (to teach them something)

and If God kills a bunch of people That is the best that could have happened to them. Their trial is over and they get to live in eternal bliss at his side in heaven.

 

You are looking at it with your atheist brain. Put yourself on a believer shoes.

Even if I'm tortured, raped my entired life on earth. That is just a drop in the bucket compared with ethernity. A small price to pay for

ethernal happiness.

 

Mike you are also being narrow minded.

 

It doesn't matter how arbitrary God is if you believe that his will has a reason. You take whatever comes because 90 years on earth is insignificant with infinite time in heaven.

 

Maybe Killing for a believer is being in Hell with Satan. If god kills you is not killing but a ticket to heaven.

[Rob_Ilir]

 

Like this?

[Tenko]

KJV Luke 4:12 "And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

 

Why is it that faith is necessary? It could only be because even in the face of information / evidence, people still doubt. Otherwise, if a direct approach worked more efficiently, no doubt it would be used?

 

Even so, Jesus still performed numerous miracles which were recorded in the Bible. Some people do experience miracles themselves, but I think it's because their faith came first.

 

KJV Mark 11:23 "For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith."

 

Why hasn't God taken a little time to perform a miracle for you personally? Well ultimately God knows why, which means there must be good reason. Something about you is in the way of God opening your eyes. It could only manifest through your free will, your decision, your morality and beliefs, because God is trying very hard to help everyone who wants/accepts that help.

 

This might be a good question to ask yourself. If God were to try to make His will clear to you, would you be willing to listen, willing to try to understand, even if such knowledge began to conflict with the beliefs and morality you currently hold? Perhaps if a truth was more frightening than you could handle, how would a prayer for this truth result in its revelation when you are unwilling or afraid to hear it? God hears your prayers, but also knows what you really want in your heart.

 

KJV James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts."

 

Some people pray for money, fame, etc. Would God be interested in furthering your greed or your pride? Then who is it that you are praying to when you pray for the gratification of unworthy traits?

 

KJV Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

 

If you really do want to walk God's path towards a peaceful existence, but never pray for it for whatever reason, your intentions still make it through thanks to the Holy Ghost. Which means that if this is not occurring then all that is missing is the desire to get started or keep going all the way.

 

KJV John 15:7 "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you."

 

Another reason why God may not give you what you ask for is that you are not keeping His words in you - in your actions, words, etc. Not keeping God's word in you implies a desire to stray from God's path.

 

KJV Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

 

Another reason is iniquity. One has sin within them if they are unforgiven; if they are unforgiven, it is because they are unrepentant. Should God be expected to fulfill the prayers of unrepentant sinners - people who plan to sin in the future after praying? What would those prayers sound like, and what kind of horrible things might be requested of God? Even if they sound innocent, giving benefit to a slavedriver only tightens his grip on his slaves, etc.

 

There are lots of verses I could quote but I'll cut it short here.

 

I do anticipate the rebuttal "Bible verses are not evidence for an argument." That would be a matter of faith, of course. I just thought I would provide a few possibilities as to why there are unanswered prayers for proof of God's existence. It's not as simple a matter as "God wouldn't show Himself, therefore He must not exist." If you make it as simple as that, you are trying to put God's plan on your terms instead of your feet on God's path.

[dsayers]

Tenko, quoting isn't proof. I make this same encouragement to people who promote ideas that I accept too. 2+2=4 because it does, not because some dead guy said so. If you want to discuss the truth of something, discuss the truth of something. "This piece of paper says so," is inconclusive since people could write whatever they wanted.

[Tenko]

Sometimes signs come in the most obvious ways. That post of yours above this one was your 666th post. But I won't think on it as bad.

 

 

I do anticipate the rebuttal "Bible verses are not evidence for an argument." That would be a matter of faith, of course.

I already admitted that Bible quotes aren't accepted as empirical evidence by those who do not have faith.

 

 

 

If you want to discuss the truth of something, discuss the truth of something.

That's what I am doing. I am discussing possible reasons why God wouldn't answer one's prayer for proof of His existence. Are you reading what I'm writing?

 

 

"This piece of paper says so," is inconclusive since people could write whatever they wanted.

You have given me a default answer when my post probably deserves a bit more attention than that.

In no place in my post have I asserted that the things I quoted are true because they are quoted.

What I have done instead is suggest possible reasons why God won't answer one's prayer for proof of His existence. Wanna discuss it?