Chisleu Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 My child is 4 years old. He is wonderful almost all of the time. I've never hit him, although I know my wife has lost her temper a few times and has hit him on the butt. I'm sure his grandmother has as well. Its rather disgusting to me. He is in preschool now, so the time he spends with his grandmother is now limited. Thus, he is generally a pretty great kid. He does things I ask (gimme some sugar!!!) and the like. Recently he has been yelling back when his mom asks him for something. For instance tonight she asked him repeatedly to stop playing with the glass on the shower so she could dry him off after a shower, my boy started yelling in increasing volume. Clearly we aren't perfect parents. I've found myself resorting to time-outs (inflicting boredom on his budding brain.) I'm currently listening to the Negotiation: Part 1 video and I'll finish Part 2. I believe I've listened to these before. I know Stefan is currently working on a parenting book that I plan to buy a hard copy of. Has he put together any pod casts on the topic of negotiation with children? I'm very interested in moving us to be much closer to "peaceful" on the parenting scale. Any videos or podcast on links on peaceful parenting will be appreciated!
ribuck Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 Aw, sounds like a great kid. Just let him keep playing with the glass on the shower. His mom can leave his towel close by so that he can start learning to dry himself, when he is finished playing. Then there will be no yelling.
Chisleu Posted September 24, 2013 Author Posted September 24, 2013 Aw, sounds like a great kid. Just let him keep playing with the glass on the shower. His mom can leave his towel close by so that he can start learning to dry himself, when he is finished playing. Then there will be no yelling. I agree. I've tried to explain this to her. However her mother raised her with all these crazy "old wives' tales" like being cold or wet causes colds. She is a religious statist, so I hold little hope of getting through. The kid is bright. I think if she just left him the towel, he would dry off. If he didn't, he would be cold and figure out that being cold sucks, so not drying off is probably not a great idea. I'm looking for methods of bargaining. I'm already trying to explain things to him. I'm not sure what to bargain. I've been using threats like taking away toys or TV time as punishment for very bad things (like yelling at his mother... I wonder where he gets it from??) I know this isn't the right way to go about things and I want to stop, but I need certain behaviors to stop. He got into trouble at preschool and neither of us want him to get kicked out. I've explained and it hasn't reoccurred, but should he decide he likes doing "x" more than not getting kicked out of preschool, or doing "y" more than "z", I can already see I need peaceful tactics or there is going to be a lot of taking shit away. The preschool uses stamps. They get stamps on days they are good and when they get 10 stamps, they get to pick from a "treasure chest" of penny items. I'm not into buying obedience, but considered using their's. Perhaps reenforcing the stamps / penny items with special privileges like being able to watch TV on my big television, or being able to play with my legos (I have a huge collection from my childhood that I plan to give to him when he is old enough to enjoy them properly.) I want to teach him to respect people and their property and I don't feel I'm doing that by taking his toys away without his consent. The same for teaching him liberty and putting him in time out. Thanks!
ribuck Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 Just keep it positive. Giving a child a reward for doing something that you want them to do (that they mightn't otherwise do) is OK and is usually effective. Taking away the child's own possessions is always wrong, and it's counter-productive. It takes away the child's sense of self, and poisons the parent-child relationship.
wdiaz03 Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 When my kid misbehaved in school I explained it was not fair to his teacher and fellow classmates because he was disrupting the class and keeping his peers from learning new things. This worked well. As far as reward/punishment I explained that certain toys are for certain age groups and if he wanted to play with them he had to behave appropriately. In theory the toys were his but for his safety and that of the toy he would not be allowed to used them until he showed that he learned the lesson and stopped the bad behavior. I always try to explain how behaving a certain way affects him and those around him. I don't know if this is the best approach. Parenting to me has been like flying a plane for the first time, there are tons of books around but you are now on the pilot seat and there are a bunch of red warning lights and buzzers going off. yikes. To know then what I know now.
Existing Alternatives Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 Recently he has been yelling back when his mom asks him for something. For instance tonight she asked him repeatedly to stop playing with the glass on the shower so she could dry him off after a shower, my boy started yelling in increasing volume. I am guessing you already listened through Stef’s special collection of podcasts on parenting. One thing I noticed about my child is that he seems to reflect my emotions most of the time. He seems to get frustrated when I’m frustrated and such. Once I discovered “Stef’s approach”, somehow my son’s behavior changed virtually over-night. My point here is that you need to watch yours and your wife’s behaviors, something might be giving him clues that yelling is an acceptable way of resolving conflicts. One thing that really changed my thinking is realization that they learned most of their emotions from us. As far negotiating goes, I am still on the fence. To me “adult” negotiating is about a fair degree of give-and-take – what do I “take” from a child? All the best. Giving a child a reward for doing something that you want them to do (that they mightn't otherwise do) is OK and is usually effective. From what I recently learned, this may not be as effective approach as it appears. By rewarding the child for certain action, you only teach him/her that this action leads to reward, and not necessarily that he/she should do this regardless of the reward.
ribuck Posted September 26, 2013 Posted September 26, 2013 By rewarding the child for certain action, you only teach him/her that this action leads to reward, and not necessarily that he/she should do this regardless of the reward. Everything that's worth doing has a reward. The reward might be uncertain, or it might be very long-term, but it's there. A parent can offer a tangible short-term reward when the child may not yet be mature enough to appreciate the subtle long-term reward.
Existing Alternatives Posted September 27, 2013 Posted September 27, 2013 Everything that's worth doing has a reward. The reward might be uncertain, or it might be very long-term, but it's there. A parent can offer a tangible short-term reward when the child may not yet be mature enough to appreciate the subtle long-term reward. True. However, giving a child a lollypop for cleaning up a room teaches him a lot about lollypops and very little about the virtue of cleaning. At best, the child will make up the easiest way to get the room clean-ish. But likely, he or she will simply figure out where the lollypops are. The key is to teach them a way to appreciate virtue for what it is and not through some weird connection to diabetes (in the case of lollypops).
ribuck Posted September 27, 2013 Posted September 27, 2013 If you give a lollypop, you're not giving a reward. As you imply, you're giving a diabetes bomb. If you give a pencil or a flower or a balloon or a bitcoin or an outing, or some of your time, then you're giving a reward.
LovePrevails Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 the book how to tlak so kids can learn has a handy section on problem solving warm regards
Susana Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 I have heard Stef mention that bribery is ok, for example a treat like a skittle for using the bathroom or maybe I guess drying off. BUT at the same time you give the reward, and you may have to do this for weeks, months etc. is EXPLAIN the reason why so eventually they will do it on their own because of the reasons. That's what being a kid is, not neccearily knowing long term consequences, that takes time and teaching. However that a why you combine "bribes" or "deals" with facts and information that will stick long term. Have to do it Every time, no slacking! or impacience!
bitcoin Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Don't give your kid time outs!! Be curious and perhaps ask him "Why are you yelling?", "Why are you frustrated?", "What can Daddy do to help you / make you happy?". What do you think ?
Matt D Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Any videos or podcast on links on peaceful parenting will be appreciated! It's so cool that you are looking into a peaceful approach for parenting. I'm not a father but I just want to commend you for what you're doing. I think your child is lucky to have a dad like you. "FDR 1110 - A Philosopher as Parent" is an earlier podcast geared more towards infants but I think it's still relevant to the topics of negotiation. Just remember that you and your son both want the same thing - for his experiences in childhood to be happy, healthy, and positive. He can give you the best feedback on your parenting because he knows his own experience better than anyone. Communicating this shared goal will help explain why you want him to behave in a certain way and also build trust in the future. Cheers!
Troubador Posted May 19, 2015 Posted May 19, 2015 I like the cut of your gib sir! I'm a little bit behind you (my son is about 2 1/2), but I'm finding him infinitely easier to manage now his language is coming in. My tack is twofold, first off we always do things together (clearing up toys together, letting him help on the easier nappy changes), all of this is fun quality time with daddy which feeds his desire to participate, but on the downside makes everything take much longer but he now understands teamwork which helps hugely. Secondly the increase in volume is his frustration at bieng told no. Now this might sound batty to you or I, but these are the tentative steps of emotional development and my personal take on it (your mileage may vary) is that piling a negative onto a negative kinda makes it worse (I'm talking the time outs), as the lesson being learned is that his natural emotional response is not acceptable, and the endgame with parenting isn't the repression of emotion but being able to successfully manage them. Imagine just for a moment your dealing with frustration and anger for the first times, it's going to be tough. So in your sort of situation my response would be to pick him up and cuddle him and say something like "I know this glass is really interesting and you want to play with it, but it's getting all nice, clean and dry time now, perhaps we can come back and explore it tomorrow," if that fails I just continue to cuddle him gently and soothe with words like "I know it's frustrating, you tell me me all about it" you ideally want to be at the threshold guiding him through emotional experiences. Now your little one is that bit older so I guess you can use more sophisticated communication with him. However when he starts to get back on task be ready with praise "I know you didn't really want to be doing this, but you're a really good boy for getting on with it and being part of the team. I am really proud of you." One final note you mention this happened at night time, which is more like as not tired time, so if I find things like that too challenging I switch the bath routine to the morning whilst he's fresh and not crabby, establish the ideal bathtime routine, and transfer it back to bedtime. Now obviously you're way ahead of me so you are well within your rights to write any of this off as "what does he know?". If that's your view fair enough, but I have experience with kids (including and especially those with special needs) so I'm applying some life experience I gathered before becoming a Dad myself. For what it's worth your little boy is lucky to have a dad like you. Hope it helps!
green banana Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Colleagues of mine (pediatricians) recommend books on Parent Effectiveness Training. It is widely regarded as the gold standard when it comes to teaching little people.
KurtAnderson Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Also a father of a boy just shy of 3. first off we always do things together (clearing up toys together, letting him help on the easier nappy changes), all of this is fun quality time with daddy which feeds his desire to participate We do the same thing, and he loves it. Unfortunately, it has made him a bit of a daddy's boy; he rarely yells at me and, if there is a disagreement, usually accedes to my persuasions relatively quickly. However, it seems that he's now being doubly-combative with his mom. So watch out for that So in your sort of situation my response would be to pick him up and cuddle him and say something like "I know this glass is really interesting and you want to play with it, but it's getting all nice, clean and dry time now, perhaps we can come back and explore it tomorrow," if that fails I just continue to cuddle him gently and soothe with words like "I know it's frustrating, you tell me me all about it" you ideally want to be at the threshold guiding him through emotional experiences. Now your little one is that bit older so I guess you can use more sophisticated communication with him. However when he starts to get back on task be ready with praise "I know you didn't really want to be doing this, but you're a really good boy for getting on with it and being part of the team. I am really proud of you." I second this. It works really well for us. It's a good combination of asserting how things have to be while showing that you're not withholding affection. We picked it up from a book called The Whole Brain Child - I'm not gonna lie, it's a bit of a painful read in that the authors write as if they're writing to children. Still, the principles within seem to be sound and (more importantly) ethical. I recommend it. (Caution: I'd avoid the audiobook. It's read by the authors so, in addition to being written to as if you're a child, they speak in the same tone.)
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