Question about an interaction with my therapist

[Gnostiphile]

Hi everyone.  I had an interaction with my therapist that I want to run by the self-knowledge lovers in the community.A while ago my therapist said that 99% of parents do the best they can with that they have.  It bothered me at the time but I didn't want to interrupt her.  In the next session, or maybe two sessions later, I reminded her what she said and told her I didn't think that was true, that at best it is meaningless and at worst it excuses bad parenting and miniminzes good parenting.  She seemed to think about it for a second and said I made some good points.  She basically agreed and said that she actually doesn't think it is true that most parents do the best they can with what they have.I asked her why she said it then, and this is the part I'm concerned about.  I must have fogged because I don't remember how excactly she answered the question but my impression is that she excused her inconsistency, basically with something along the lines that people like to think that parents do the best they can.  At some point after I asked, she told me that I was welcome to email her about these ideas (she called them theories which struck me as strange).  She said that the things I was saying would get a room full of psychology graduate students talking.When she said this, I felt flattered and pleased.  I also felt scared at the prospect of emailing her about such things.  I kind of expected her to be curious as to why, but she didn't ask me about the fear and I didn't press the topic.I feel weird about this interaction and am hoping someone here can help me figure out what that feeling is about.  Specifically, I am wondering if I was manipulated into getting distracted from my therapist's inconsistency or if I am reading too much into it.

[Magenta]

A while ago my therapist said that 99% of parents do the best they can with that they have.

 

As usual, I don't have a lot to contribute, but I take lots of notes when listening to FDR, so here's a podcast that I recommend listening to if you haven't already:

 

My paraphrase: "If parents just did the best they could, then there is no ethics its just determinism" - FDR-798 Sex and Enlightenment - Two Listener Dilemmas, @ 00:59:58

[Wesley]

To me it sounds like she was pressured and didn't like being called out on an inconsistency. Emailing can be used by people who cannot admit they are wrong (and get called on something that they need to dismiss) in order to spend an inordinate amount of time crafting the perfect response. The "getting a room full of psychology students talking" is as much a flattery of you as it is a reassurance to herself that it is ok that she messed up and she should think about it in an email longer.

 

At least this is what I would read based on what you sent, which may not be recollected perfectly.

 

You should express your worry and that you feel manipulated by the situation. I find that the therapist's office is a great place to be blatantly honest about your feelings. It may bring up a block or situation in your past that you are not aware of.

[Kevin Beal]

That's a pretty big red flag for me when you say that parents do the best they can in general. I don't think there's enough here for me to be too sure, but the flattery thing seems a tad suspicious to me as well.

 

I don't know how long you've been going, but if you trust her then you should be (like Wesley suggested) as honest as you possibly can with her about your experience. Relying on memory, especially when there was some fog going on can lead to a lot of frustration and a desire to withdraw when being even more honest may be the thing to do. 

 

I would suggest focusing on your experience in the moment, your thoughts and feelings. Those you can be certain of and cannot (reasonably) be rejected. And while doing so take notice of whether or not you fog and make sure to interrupt and let her know if you do. Don't let things get too far in the fog without checking in.

 

There are lots of reasons to be critical of bad parents. Some that are simple moral reasons like: "it's not okay to make your child feel alone in this world", and then there are reasons that are kind of ancient, hard to look directly at, foggy kinds of reasons that may offer you some very important insights. Those are precisely the kinds of insights you want to gain in therapy around these issues.

 

I don't know you, right, but I'm fairly sure you're plenty smart compared to most folk and have some pretty good moral clarity. What would be shitty is if there were something in between you and your therapist that prevents you from exploring those murkier moral realities that (perhaps) you lived and suffered thanks to abusive and/or negligent parents (to whatever degree). Like (for example) the suspicion that she will reject what you have to say with something like "parents do the best they can" or that you feel she may minimize something that is for you very powerful.

 

Talking about that kind of thing is going to make those topics more approachable and productive (and save you money!) by getting all those potential barriers out of the way. That is assuming she is a good therapist who can help you with what you need to work on. Being honest and talking about those things is a great way to weed out bad therapists too. Either way you win.

 

And it's totally awesome you are doing therapy! Seriously, thank you for doing that. This stuff is so so important.

[cherapple]

How long have you been seeing this therapist, and how do you feel about switching? I'm not saying you should. I'm wondering whether you have any anxiety about doing so, or about staying with her, for that matter.

 

One thing I've learned to do is interrupt my therapist. Especially since it's a part of my history to sit passively and listen quietly, as if what someone else has to say is important, and what I have to say doesn't matter. As if someone else is worthy of being heard, but I am not. Do you recognize such a pattern in yourself? Did you "not want to interrupt" your parents when they spoke? Which really means, and perhaps it meant the same for your therapist, that they did not want you to interrupt them. You were bothered, and I would guess that you really wanted to interrupt and speak the truth.

 

The most important thing for me is that I be sure that my therapist will stand for my child self over my parents. You could even ask, if you haven't, what your therapist's relationship is, and was, with her parents. If she excuses them (or herself, if she's a parent), then you can be sure she will excuse yours.

 

Your therapist's flattery is suspicious, to me, as well as excusing her own actions by saying, "People like to believe that parents do the best they can." She's talking about herself. She's saying she's willing to believe whatever she likes to believe. Does she understand that even if it were true that "parents do the best they can," it doesn't minimize the hurt parents do to their children? A child does not understand his parents' history, or the reasons for his parents' actions, especially if his parents haven't done any work to understand themselves. Is that "the best they can do"? It doesn't change the fact that you still have to heal from the damage, and you've hired her to help you do that, not to help your parents.

[Ruben Zandstra]

My impression of this interaction is that you might be feeling that at this point she was mainly just saying that which sounded best to her imagined client, which would then allow herself to imagine being of use.

None of which has anything to do with anyone but herself.

 

When you pointed out that you think she is wrong about parents, to her this meant that she made a mistake, had misjudged her audience, has not made you imagine that she is of use, and this unsettles her. She's made it clear that she would be happy to study any material you send her, study like she has been doing for a decade, and then go and prepare better things to say to you. 

 

Is this characterisation anywhere close?

[TheRobin]

Since you pay her to help you, and she said that: "People like to believe that parents do the best they can." . I would probably have asked her if that's how she wants to help me, by making me believe stuff that's not really true and whether she thinks if that's actually healthy.

[Gnostiphile]

Thank you so much for your responses.  I feel a lot of gratitude right now. 

 

An update first, then I will respond to each of you.I had a session with my therapist yesterday and we went over the "parents do the best they can" issue again.  Long and expensive story short, I now have certainty about whether or not she excuses her parents - she absolutely does.  I also have certainty about her inconsistency regarding her views on responsibility for parents: "Parents are responsible for the things they do to their children.  I don't blame my parents, I blame the generations that came before.  It's a societal problem."  She admits that she maintains a "surface" relationship with her mother but said that they give each other "very heart-felt" cards and she believes they have a deep caring for each other.  She also mentioned that her mother just started saying "I love you" to her last year or so.She has not been open and honest with her mother about her experiences regarding her childhood because she feels that she is not a person who is capable of self-reflection.  She has no problem viewing her relationship with her mother as just another shallow relationship, despite all the history that's there.  I countered many of her justifications and excuses but she just kept trying to find a new way to sell it.  I asked her if she's forgiven her mother.  She had to think about it for quite a few seconds before telling me that she didn't really believe in forgiveness, that it's a false idea.  I have to hand it to her, at least she doesn't subscribe to the idea that "you have to forgive".  Instead she just disposes of forgiveness altogether, thereby ignoring the requirement of restitution.  It is ingenious.At the end she said she'd think about it and try to come up with some other way of explaining how what seems like a contradiction  is not in fact so.  I asked her to consider the possibility that she is being inconsistent and that it may not be a matter of convincing me otherwise.  I felt that she was put-off by my frankness and conviction. 

 

...I can't believe how freaking right you all were.  Seriously, before I talked to her yesterday, I thought you guys were fairly on track with your criticisms and suggestions, but damn, now I am truly astounded by just how insightful and right you were.  I want me some of that!@Magenta - I indeed listened to that podcast, thanks for recommending it.  At about 14 minutes in where he talked about people needing to have a problem with their illusions (ie prefer truth over emotional comfort) in order to get them to see the truth resonated with me in this situation.@Wesley - I think your impression was right.  I tried to be as honest as I could about my feelings, though it was hard to stick to my feelings when so much of what she was saying violated my reasoning sensibilities.  There were also some moments where I consciously held back because I could see what I was up against.

 

Do you think you could give an example of a possible block that could be related to this issue?  I know about blocks, but I'm having trouble imagining what one would be in this case.@Kevin - Yes, being as honest as I could was extremely helpful.  Of course, you were right about the subject becoming more approachable by talking about it.  I feel much more confident now about bringing these things up with future therapists, hopefully much sooner next time!Would you mind expounding on "ancient, hard to look directly at, foggy kinds of reasons"?  I wasn't quite sure what you meant by that.@cherapple - You were right on the money.  Before yesterday I felt like "she's willing to believe whatever she wants to believe" seemed a bit harsh, but wow, you were totally right.  I was literally watching it happen, her defenses felt palpable to me.  The whole thing felt surreal and a couple of times during the session I felt like I was witnessing something quite spectacular.I took your and Kevin's advice and interupted her, especially when I started feeling confused or when I'd ask her about her relationship with her mother or say it sounded like she was excusing bad parenting and she'd go into abstractions about "different kinds of relationships" or how "wounded people go on to inflict wounds in others".  It was pretty annoying actually.  I would point out that she was contradicting herself and she just kept trying to explain to me what I consider to be pretty basic stuff about how abuse is perpetuated.Yes, to say that I have noticed a pattern of not wanting to interrupt others would be quite the understatement actually.  It happens with virtually everyone I talk to.  As a child I would get the "Can't you see I'm on the phone?" and never felt that I could interrupt my parents (especially my mother) when they were talking with other adults.  Everyone, even perfect strangers were more important than me. @Ruben - Yes, I would say that your "characterization is close" lol.  I wasn't sure about the second part before but now I see it is exactly right.@Robin - The idea of saying that to her seemed scary to me.  I didn't say that exactly, as she refused to take a concrete position on it, but I think that in itself told me what I needed to know.

 

 

 

We made an appointment for next week and I have not decided if I will keep it or not.  I am curious to see what she'll say after a week of stewing it over, but I certainly don't want to spend another $100 going up against her defenses again.  I am also worried about not finding the motivation to look for another therapist and I don't even know if I can find one better than her.  She definitely had her positive qualities, which is why I stayed with her until now (about 4 months or so).  At the same time though, I don't really see how I can possibly stay with her after yesterday.I had a queasy feeling right after I left the appointment, but I did feel really good later.  I am proud of myself for being able to bring it up and stick with it, not letting her manipulation fog me into complacency. 

 

Although I am worried about not feeling motivated to look for another therapist, my experience yesterday makes me a bit excited to question future therapists about their beliefs and relationships.  I feel much more confident about my discernment regarding who would be a good therapist for me or not.  I feel like I'm really starting to get how someone excusing their own parents will inevitably lead them to excuse mine, in one way or another.  If the blame lies with the generations, where does that leave the anger I feel toward my parents?  And if my anger is invalid, then my emotions are meaningless or worse, they are lying to me.

 

 

[Kevin Beal]

Hey thanks for the update!

 

That takes real guts and I think that (from what I've read here) your analysis is a good one.

 

@Kevin - Yes, being as honest as I could was extremely helpful.  Of course, you were right about the subject becoming more approachable by talking about it.  I feel much more confident now about bringing these things up with future therapists, hopefully much sooner next time!

Would you mind expounding on "ancient, hard to look directly at, foggy kinds of reasons"?  I wasn't quite sure what you meant by that.

This may be entirely my own issue and nothing to do with you, but I noticed that I had a false dilemma in my head when approaching these issues. On one hand I had certainty about immoral things that had been done to me or kids in general, and on the other hand there were things I was less sure about and felt defensive about when I heard contradicting perspectives. I thought that if I was defensive, then that must mean that my interpretation was incorrect and my feelings baseless. So either I was certain, or I was wrong.

 

For a long time, I would not take some necessary risks and say things that were directly contradicting some things that my therapist said for fear of being dismissed outright or thought of as having "silly" ideas. It turned out that the fear was not actually out of an accurate reading of her and my relationship, but was actually more to do with either my own thoughts I had about myself or ways that I was treated when I was young.

 

There are times that this still happens, albeit less and less. And sometimes she was wrong or lacked an appropriate amount of consideration and that kind of thing, and it's very interesting to go through that and establish an even greater amount of trust in the relationship. And I will learn something about myself when she messes up (which is not often).

 

 

 

Although I am worried about not feeling motivated to look for another therapist, my experience yesterday makes me a bit excited to question future therapists about their beliefs and relationships.  I feel much more confident about my discernment regarding who would be a good therapist for me or not.  I feel like I'm really starting to get how someone excusing their own parents will inevitably lead them to excuse mine, in one way or another.  If the blame lies with the generations, where does that leave the anger I feel toward my parents?  And if my anger is invalid, then my emotions are meaningless or worse, they are lying to me.

 

I'm worried about that for you too. And I think the implications you mentioned are quite accurate.

 

How would you feel about talking about your hesitations about continuing therapy with her? I'm not entirely convinced that you have to stop seeing her, but definitely there is a risk there like you mentioned about excuses being made for your parents, at least, that would sort of make sense for the reasons you described.

 

Is it possible you think to build the kind of trust that you wont feel hesitant to bring up your disagreements, or ideas you think she'll disagree with, with her? (Despite the fact that you definitely disagree about something very important).

 

Do you have a sense of certainty that you aren't going to find continuing therapy with her worth the money you pay her? I got the sense (rightly or wrongly) that you don't, and that part of you that does want to continue, may have something. Or, at least, exploring what those reasons are may yield some insight into the relationship you have with her and with yourself.

 

Along those lines, I'm curious whether or not the kinds of excuses, reasoning that she provided are familiar to you. Like, are these the sorts of things your parents or siblings might say?

 

Those are just some thoughts and questions that come to mind reading your latest post. You know your relationship with her much better than I do, and this may be lightly flavored with projection on my part, so take it with as much salt as you think appropriate.

[jonagelle]

She may be correct and may also be wrong. But what she tells is opinion. There is no wrong or right opinion. It does not have factual basis that you should core into. What she said is not scientific it is opinion. She is trying to comfort you so that you feel belong, supported and protected. So that you will feel comfortable. That may be close to your family that whatever you need you can easily approach your family. And that there is no gap among you. She tries to make you believe that you have a good support. That whatever you need you are able to meet. She is trying to comfort you so that you will feel comfortable and relax. As relaxation is what you need. You must not be stress or else you sickness will be triggered to occur again.

 

Nathanael King is a Clinical Hypnotherapist, NLP practitioner and weight loss & nutritional therapist. He also helps people suffering from panic attacks or social anxiety. He has written a book on how to build confidence instantly using NLP techniques. Please click <a target="_new" href="http://dailyimproveself.com/instantconfidencefree/">here</a> to download now. You can also sign up for weekly newsletter at <a target="_new" href="http://www.SelfProgress.co.uk">http://www.SelfProgress.co.uk</a> for your growth.

[Kevin Beal]

She may be correct and may also be wrong. But what she tells is opinion. There is no wrong or right opinion. It does not have factual basis that you should core into. 

Opinion isn't necessarily without objective basis, and to be clear, the therapist is making a truth claim. It's not her preference that parents do the best they can, but that it's actually something true that describes people's actual parents.

 

 

 

She is trying to comfort you so that you feel belong, supported and protected. So that you will feel comfortable.

I'm curious how you know this, but regardless, if that's the case, then it didn't work. And that's the responsibility of the therapist, not of the client to change their mind about it. I would argue that lying to people is the absolute worst way you can help them, but maybe I've misunderstood you.

 

 

 

That may be close to your family that whatever you need you can easily approach your family. And that there is no gap among you. She tries to make you believe that you have a good support. That whatever you need you are able to meet.

You don't know the OP's parents, nor do you know the therapist. When you make claims like this, it actually means something. It's not however you are using the word "opinion" to mean.

 

Obviously, the OP doesn't need to be told that her parents are peachy keen. 

[Gnostiphile]

Thanks for your response, Kevin.  I really appreciate your curiosity and thoughts.  I've been stewing over this and over your post for the last few days and I'm feeling extremely overwhelmed with the situation.  I feel like if I continue with this therapist then I risk throwing precious money down the drain.  But I'm afraid that choosing to stop seeing her will be based on my false-self.  I feel paralyzed.  I just don't want to deal with this.I feel like I cannot trust this woman unless she can admit her inconsistency and demonstrate that she really "gets it".  I feel immense pressure to make her understand.  I feel like she is turning into the enemy.  I want to trust her but I just can't.  I can't discern what my authentic feelings are about her and what I am projecting onto her.I feel confident about parents' responsibility but completely unconfident about either my ability to explain this to my therapist or about her ability to accept the argument (I'm not sure which).  I don't really want to, for some reason it feels embarrassing to have to explain this to her, kind of like explaining 2+2=4 to an accountant.I realize I haven't addressed your specific thoughts and questions in this post.  I don't want to give the impression that I haven't read your last response or don't think it's valuable.  I've attempted several times to write out a response, but I keep getting overwhelmed by all of my thoughts and feelings.  Hopefully I will feel calmer about it later. 

 

I received this email from my therapist yesterday.  Would you mind reading it and telling me what you think?  I'd appreciate feedback from anyone willing to share.  I felt confused, underwhelmed, annoyed, frustrated, and defensive when I read it. 

Email.zip

[cherapple]

How would you feel about telling your therapist exactly what you just wrote? 

 

About the email:

 

"why [parents] don't [get help] is a separate question entirely, and not relevant here."

 

If it's not relevant, why does she feel the need to say it? Obviously, she wants to make the point that it is still relevant to her.

 

"I also processed this conversation and explored my personal experience with my supervisor."

 

How much has she explored YOUR personal experience?

 

"I feel clear and confident that our principles in this area do line up, and I'm in a position to safely accompany you in the work you're doing, without risk of contamination."

 

By "our principles," does she mean yours and hers, or her supervisor's principles and hers? She "feels confident," but the important thing is whether YOU feel confident with her. The fact that she needs to state it, and bring up her supervisor, I think, says the opposite.

 

Whose word is "contamination"? Is that a word that you have brought up with her, or is that her word?

 

What parts of the email stood out for you?

[Kevin Beal]

I'm really sorry.

 

I appreciate you saying that it's overwhelming too, because that somehow didn't figure into my thinking about it. But it makes total sense that it would be overwhelming.

 

I would feel super anxious to do some of the things I mentioned in that previous post if it were me, and it somehow didn't register that way. I hope it didn't come off like I thought those things were a cake walk and that you need to do those things.

 

You definitely don't owe her anything, and you are not going to hear any complaint out of me if you decide not to continue therapy with her.

 

I would just hope that it didn't ruin therapy for you and that you felt motivated to find a therapist you can really really trust.

 

If part of the overwhelm is that you feel it's an impossible situation, stuck between speaking truth, but not being heard or potentially projecting and thus being dismissed or rejected, then that is really a terrible situation to be in. If either one is true, then that's a problem. It would make therapy extremely difficult if not impossible, I would think.

 

With a therapist you truly trust, I think it would be beneficial to be okay with occasionally projecting and feeling safe enough to project that you can be curious about it and why it happened.

 

The therapist is responsible for any contamination and it seems clear that was the case in your previous session. Even if she believes that parents do the best they can, she still shouldn't have said that (speaking as a complete amateur).

 

 

I lack some context, but I read the email and I think I can see how I would be annoyed by it, particularly the part where she says that you were right according to some process (that I know nothing about). I think it's more accurate to just say that you were right because you reasoned it out and made the case and it was compelling. It seems strange to me why that bit would be included. And I don't know that I would be as confident as she is that contamination won't occur again. That sort of thing just happens (very rarely hopefully).

 

I was, however, a tad relieved when she said that it doesn't matter why parents don't seek out help, they are nevertheless responsible for not doing that (assuming I interpreted that correctly, Cherapple interpreted differently than I did). And also I am a big fan of therapists having supervisors or doing their own analysis with another therapist. I also liked that she apologized, unless they turn out to be just words.

 

I think it may be worthwhile to do another session if you feel you can achieve a certain amount of certainty from doing so. I'm not entirely sure how to achieve that, but if you were sharing your overwhelm with her about this and she was very empathetic and didn't minimize or do the other things you took issue with, and if that established more trust in the relationship, then I would do another session after that myself, if it were me.

 

Sorry again about the overwhelm. That is really tough, especially if you feel you have to weather it alone.

 

Hopefully my thoughts are of some help.

 

Take care

[Gnostiphile]

@Cherapple"How would you feel about telling your therapist exactly what you just wrote?"When I ask myself this, I have many thoughts about it, but it's hard to fetter out the feelings.  I think that fact that I have not said these things to her tells me that I probably feel afraid to.  Like I'll get in trouble for being so outspoken.  I'm afraid that I will be rejected and I'm afraid of the self-attack that might ensue.  I'll add here that at best I think it would be pointless to say all these things to her, as I feel like she is quite content with her perspective on the matter.  I feel like this is an issue of logic and telling her my feelings would be an argument from emotion.  Am I supposed to feel safe enough to bring my emotions into it without feeling like that will detract from my position?  What would be the goal of bringing up my emotions about this?Thank you for your feedback on the email.  I was really questioning my reactions to it, and hearing from others is so incredibly relieving."By "our principles," does she mean yours and hers, or her supervisor's principles and hers?"I believe she's talking about hers and mine.  In our last session she was considering whether or not a therapist with "similar experiences" to mine would be better for me.  I told her that it wasn't our experiences that were the problem, but our values/principles.  I noticed that she never asked me what exactly those were.  I'm wondering if she assumes my position is that parents intentionally set out to hurt their children.  In our first session she said she didn't like the word "blame" because it implies that the person was "born evil"."Whose word is "contamination"? Is that a word that you have brought up with her, or is that her word?"I expressed to her my concern that her own stuff would interfere with our work.  The specific word "contamination" was first used by her."What parts of the email stood out for you?"There were many things that stood out to me:"and yes, I'm sorry I realize that I have been blending 2 things"I really don't know what to make of this.  It kind of sounds like she's saying "yes, I was contradicting myself", but that's not actually what she says.  Why?  And "blending 2 things" is not the same as "contradicting myself"."this process"I have no idea what she means by that."the most literal sense"Again, no clue what that means.  Why add that part?  Either they could do a better job or they couldn't.  It sounds like she's setting up a "but"."not relevant here"This is probably the thing that sticks out to me most in the email.  Of course it's relevant.  If someone hits me with their car, whether they suffered an unforeseeable aneurysm directly before hitting me or they purposely steered the car toward me is pretty relevant to the level of responsibility they are to be assigned.  Of course they are responsible for damages either way, but whether or not it would be considered an act of aggression depends on intent and their level of control over the situation.  A mother mistreating her child because she has an undiagnosed brain tumor that is affecting her personality is different from a mother who mistreats her child out of convenience."I feel clear and confident that our principles in this area do line up..."A declaration of confidence is insufficient here.  It's like saying, "trust me, this will work".  I'm going to need to hear more than the "Cole's Notes version" to feel confident that our principles line up."I do not believe in protecting or defending parents when they wound their children"So she has decided to confront her mother about her childhood then?  Because maintaining comfortable relationships with those who have harmed you without being honest about your experiences of them is "protecting parents".  If she is concerned about breaking the "cycle of wounding", shielding people from the effects of their wrong-doing does not seem like a good way to go about it.  Also, she has already said this to me, it's nothing new."I'm sorry if I created confusion or uncertainty for you"Apologies that start with "I'm sorry if..." really rub me the wrong way.  If she acknowledges that she caused those things for me, why the "if"?  It seems disingenuous.Overall, I feel that she has said nothing I haven't already heard from her.  If she acknowledges her inconsistency I feel that what she's said here is inadequate.  If I were a therapist and I  fully realized that I was wrong about something as important and fundamental (imo) as the responsibility of parents, I think I would express more of an understanding of how I was wrong and of the significance of my mistake.She hasn't demonstrated that she understands my position or that she understands where the issue I perceive is.  If she doesn't quite understand, that's fine, but then why isn't she asking me to explain more? 

@Kevin

 

Thank you for acknowledging how difficult this is.  When I get overwhelmed I tend to feel very alone and like I should be better at figuring things out.I did not intend to imply that anything you wrote was the source of my upset.  I didn't and don't feel pressure from you in any way.  I do feel internal pressure to reply to your response in a timely manner, but I also realize that I have a right to take as much time as I need.  The overwhelm though, is about the situation with my therapist (and myself), not your responses themselves."Is it possible you think to build the kind of trust that you wont feel hesitant to bring up your disagreements, or ideas you think she'll disagree with, with her?"Not really.  I feel like I cannot trust her as long as she has this blind spot.  I have been feeling like the money is not worth it for a little while now, and there have also been times where I felt a lack of empathy and curiosity from her.  Now that I have questioned her more thoroughly, I can see a connection between her contradictions and the topics she was not showing curiosity and empathy about.  I feel like it would not be a matter of building trust together, it would be a matter of her demonstrating an understanding of my position and either admitting her mistake or showing me how I am mistaken."I'm curious whether or not the kinds of excuses, reasoning that she provided are familiar to you. Like, are these the sorts of things your parents or siblings might say?"Somewhat.  When I first started waking up to the truth about my family/childhood, I felt a lot of disgust, anger, and disappointment at my parents for their lack of conviction and integrity.  I see these things in my therapist and it triggers the same feelings (not to the same degree as I am not dependent on her).  It's not even the excuses that bother me so much, it's her refusal to take a coherent position on the subject.  It's the way she says one thing and then contradicts it later.  It's that she maintains a relationship with her mother while refusing to acknowledge the elephant in the room that is their history, as this is something in my family history.  My father would say something horrible to me and then I'd come down for dinner and nothing would be mentioned about it again.  I struggle with this greatly today, this water-under-the-bridge bullshit that eats away at relationships.  How can she help me with this if she is comfortable doing it herself?"Even if she believes that parents do the best they can, she still shouldn't have said that (speaking as a complete amateur)."I am curious why you say this.  My feeling (also amateur ) is that I would rather them say it so I know what their position is.  I feel that a therapist's personal beliefs are going to leak into the therapy in one way or another (even if it's by omission), and I would rather them save me some time and money by being upfront about it.  And if they can truly keep their beliefs out of it, then they lack integrity or at least concern about me.  If she believes that parents do the best they can, then my parents deserve my forgiveness, do they not?  And denying them that forgiveness would be harmful to my relationship with them.  It's like a Christian therapist refraining from trying to save their client from eternal damnation.  Either they don't really believe it, in which case they lack integrity, or they don't care enough to make the effort.  This is just the way I'm seeing it right now,  I could be wrong.  I would love to hear contrasting perspectives."she says that you were right according to some process (that I know nothing about)"I'm not sure what she meant by "process" and I didn't interpret it to mean that I was right according to it.  I'm not even sure that she said I was right anywhere in the email.  I feel like she avoided taking a position on that."I was, however, a tad relieved when she said that it doesn't matter why parents don't seek out help, they are nevertheless responsible for not doing that (assuming I interpreted that correctly, Cherapple interpreted differently than I did)... I also liked that she apologized"As per my response to Cherapple, I did not find this relieving at all, considering that the cause that she's dismissing is integral to my position and the reason I take issue with her's.  It feels like she is avoiding the contradiction she has made by discarding one half of the inconsistency.  I am not sure that what she said was an apology."Sorry again about the overwhelm. That is really tough, especially if you feel you have to weather it alone."Thank you, Kevin.  That validation means a lot to me

[Kevin Beal]

I'm sorry about your father. Being cruel and then making it worse by not saying anything. I imagine that if you were to bring it up later, he would just be more cruel. That's a terrible combination of overt and passive aggression.

"Even if she believes that parents do the best they can, she still shouldn't have said that (speaking as a complete amateur)."

I am curious why you say this.  My feeling (also amateur ) is that I would rather them say it so I know what their position is.  I feel that a therapist's personal beliefs are going to leak into the therapy in one way or another (even if it's by omission), and I would rather them save me some time and money by being upfront about it.  And if they can truly keep their beliefs out of it, then they lack integrity or at least concern about me.  If she believes that parents do the best they can, then my parents deserve my forgiveness, do they not?  And denying them that forgiveness would be harmful to my relationship with them.  It's like a Christian therapist refraining from trying to save their client from eternal damnation.  Either they don't really believe it, in which case they lack integrity, or they don't care enough to make the effort.  This is just the way I'm seeing it right now,  I could be wrong.  I would love to hear contrasting perspectives.

I had not considered what you said, but it makes a lot of sense. What I was thinking was that therapy should be about the client and only about the therapist when it's going to be helpful to the client. And it seems pretty obvious to me that if you are talking about the culpability that parents have, and she thinks that you are wrong, then she would (I would think) believe that it's an emotional issue, and I can't imagine how telling someone they are wrong like that would help them, especially with such a weak defense like "parents do the best they can". It would seem to me to miss the point. It's not about her opinions, but about you and the work you are doing.

 

I can see though how I personally would prefer to know the principles / positions my therapist is operating out of.

 

I was thinking about what kinds of disagreements I would tolerate, and I'm okay with a statist or even a theist therapist, but someone who doesn't believe that parents are culpable is a deal breaker the more I think about it and consider what you said.

 

Are you motivated enough to interview more therapists? That might be a good interview question.

[Gnostiphile]

I'm sorry about your father. Being cruel and then making it worse by not saying anything. I imagine that if you were to bring it up later, he would just be more cruel. That's a terrible combination of overt and passive aggression.

 

Yeah, it was awful.  Thank you for acknowledging that. 

 

I had not considered what you said, but it makes a lot of sense. What I was thinking was that therapy should be about the client and only about the therapist when it's going to be helpful to the client. And it seems pretty obvious to me that if you are talking about the culpability that parents have, and she thinks that you are wrong, then she would (I would think) believe that it's an emotional issue, and I can't imagine how telling someone they are wrong like that would help them, especially with such a weak defense like "parents do the best they can". It would seem to me to miss the point. It's not about her opinions, but about you and the work you are doing.

 

This makes sense to me and has helped me get a bit of clarity about the real issue.  I now see why you said "even if she believes that parents do the best they can, she still shouldn't have said that" and I agree.  Heck, even if it's true that parents do the best they can, she still shouldn't have said that.  You wouldn't tell a plane crash survivor that planes do the best they can.  Or for that matter, you wouldn't say to any client "the sky is blue".  It's like, "um... how is that helpful?"  I don't know if that relates to the way you see it, but that's the way my thoughts evolved after reading what you wrote.

 

I can see though how I personally would prefer to know the principles / positions my therapist is operating out of.

 

I was thinking about what kinds of disagreements I would tolerate, and I'm okay with a statist or even a theist therapist, but someone who doesn't believe that parents are culpable is a deal breaker the more I think about it and consider what you said.

 

I think I feel the same way.  As long as they don't bring up those subjects, I don't see how statism or theism would interfere necessarily.  The culpability of parents however, is quite relevant to the therapy. 

 

Are you motivated enough to interview more therapists? That might be a good interview question.

 

I honestly do feel a little put-off by this experience.  I thought she was as good as it was going to get around here.  I think I'm going to need to hear more from others who have had success finding good therapists.  I also need to figure out what exactly I'm supposed to get from a therapist that I couldn't get from friends and self-therapy.  I'm sure there is something, lots maybe, but I need to understand better so I can know what to expect from a therapist in the future.