Guest darkskyabove Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I couldn't help myself. There has been so much recent traffic about this punk, I was torn between hope that it would die down and issuing a challenge to all the recent defenders of of this ZeitTroll nonsense, and/or to PJ himself. I'm pissed. And though I respect the forum, I do not feel compelled to show as much diplomacy as Stefan. To all the recent ZeitTrolls: Your attempts at influence are transparent. If you thought to cash in on the popularity of this forum, think again, and then go back to non-thinking; which is what seems to be TZM's specialty. If any TZMers think they can continue to infiltrate this forum with their version of "unresolved emotional trauma", I'll be there. Trolls can, and have, been banned. If anyone believes they can go "public" on the Net and not be held accountable for what they say, and how they say it: take it somewhere else and see how long you last. Trolling is a disgraceful enterprise, it's childish, and proves everything Stefan said about living in "the world of a child", which includes the strident urge for attention. You want attention. I've got more than you bargained for. And it's not all warm and cuddly. Think carefully. To Mr. Peter Joseph: You, sir, are a disgrace to the human race. All your fancy words and fancy ideas are no match for common sense. I did the research. It appears all you are is talk. Why don't you write it all down and publish, or post to the net, all your great ideas. Understand clearly, once you write it, you can no longer claim: "that's not what I meant". Writing gives you the opportunity to make your "vision" clear. Due to your problem with being taken out of context: quit talking and write it down. There would then exist a reviewable exposition of your ideas, complete with references to verify your claims; without the "distraction" of someone else's input. Should you choose not to make your ideas available for review, well, that would be a rather clear statement unto itself, would it not? Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fleming Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't know that he is a charlatan. Misguided yes. Has bad ideas that are potentially dangerous yes. But I think he genuinely believes them and like Stef says it probably comes out of a traumatised/inadequate upbringing. It's the bad ideas fundamentally that need to be exposed as such, which is what I think Stef's goal was.. PJ just happened to be the vehicle for the bad ideas.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovePrevails Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think he's a charlatan personally, he peddles glib, meaningless crap which is impossible to impliment. if it was possible it's easy to do, they just pull resources and get a geographical area to show us how it's done, if it works we'll all run to join Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C. Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't think that Peter Joseph is deliberately trying to deceive; I think that he sincerely believes in the things he espouses. However, he is ill-informed and misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 If he's not trying to deceive, why is none of his stuff written down? I searched: his Official site, nothing, thezeitgeistmovement.com, nothing. Everything I can find about this guy and his movement is talk: talk radio, talking to the news, talking to each other about how to organize another chapter to do more talking... One of the few places that might have accepted discussion of a radical economic theory is mises.org; sorry, he doesn't seem to have gotten any coverage, and the forums are full of harsh criticism. (I got the charlatan idea from a mises forum post. The "nehru collar" and comparison to "Dr. Evil" were quite popular. Note: the mises forum is closed. The archives exist at http://archive.freecapitalists.org/forums/) I don't consider this a case of me being old-fashioned by expecting such a new and different idea to be written down somewhere. It's beginning to seem like the modern version of a snake-oil salesman. Travelling from place to place, making grandiose speeches, promising spectactular effects, taking money, and disappearing. The idea that some supercomputer could even be properly programmed to make all the decisions necessary is a speculative assertion. I haven't found any serious backing for this claim. And without their computerized "nanny" wouldn't the entire idea crumble into dust? With all the pursuit of media attention and the drive to accumulate followers, I suppose the more accurate title could be: Peter Joseph is a Demagogue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bynes Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Well said darkskyabove! I do not follow Peter Joseph. He's an attention seeker. I do not care for his childish B.S. Good point about his stuff not written down. That tells me something he's not credible and not worth my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's not strictly true Darkskyabove. He wrote these two articles. http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/blogs/peter-joseph After some careful research I found a recent book published on Amazon that bore his name. Surly not! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boozy-Brunch-Quintessential-Daytime-Drinking/dp/1589796780/ref=la_B006K0RHFA_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381347614&sr=1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 ROFL!!! Sarcasm definitely appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bynes Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I laughed out loud. Now that's a Peter Joseph I don't mind at all. The Zeitgeist one... pfff no thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Ilir Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 More of a Harlequin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanm Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Our algorithm has determined that your brunch cocktail is not maximally efficient to ensure a Global Access Abundance and therefore you may not have one. Did you bring enough booze for the entire class? No? Well, too bad you may not have that resource! Also, that lime is not as sustainable as it could be. You know damn well the market slave masters are holding back the 500-year lime, which can be regurgitated and reconstituted into lime form. But no, you'll never see it because of this narrow, truncated view of some pie-in-the-sky anarcho-capitalist bullhonkey that only works in the theoretical land of marketing magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fleming Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You know, I think PJ started out with his ideas, never saw much, if any criticism of them, did some videos (high production quality videos which must have taken serious effort), started a movement and then probably started to come across conflicting information after all this work and effort had been done. Maybe he's just too invested in it now and it's blinding him to criticism of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powder Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You know, I think PJ started out with his ideas, never saw much, if any criticism of them, did some videos (high production quality videos which must have taken serious effort), started a movement and then probably started to come across conflicting information after all this work and effort had been done. Maybe he's just too invested in it now and it's blinding him to criticism of it. I think you got it there. good point about the lack of tangible material to study darkskyabove - I can't imagine that a thorough written proposal with specs on how the mega computer will be programmed would get very far. but then maybe he would stick to film making, which he is really good at I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You know, I think PJ started out with his ideas, never saw much, if any criticism of them, did some videos (high production quality videos which must have taken serious effort), started a movement and then probably started to come across conflicting information after all this work and effort had been done. Maybe he's just too invested in it now and it's blinding him to criticism of it. Peter made out TZM 1 which the religion side of it was based on Acharya S/D. Murdock and Jordan Maxwell. Soon After Peter made TZM.com at which he advocated people to vote for Ron paul. He then made TZM movie 2 and based the work off Fresco's work, he then tried to ditch Acharya S, Ron Paul and Jordan Maxwell (Jordan had rejected Peter) and make his flock beleive in Fresco and Jordan Maxwell. Peter then got his flock to beleive in TVP until the TVP and TZM split occured now he rejects TVP but still teaches TVP's RBE (resource based economy) But calls it a RBEM (resource based economic model) as to not infringe on a possible trademark of TVP's RBE. If you look into Acharya S/D. Murdock she's not credible once so ever matter in fact the things in TZM 1 are way off base and have been debunked on skeptic project.com. Jordan Maxwell is a huge consrpiacy theriost I'd argue he's what makes up modern day consrpiacy theories as far as marketing CT's. He's not credible one bit and does a lot of word associations in a attempt to associate the meaning or sound in one word to mean something else in a whole other context.From there Jordan contruct very intricate and complex conspiracy theories. Peter has been challenged on his ideas a lot of times, he chooses to label those people trolls and or mentally ill. It's not the fact that Peter does any real good research before he starts promoting it just looks like he gets soemthing that he beleives without any real research and gets his flock to buy into it as well. When he decides it's not good for his image ti beleive in that he just simply ditches it and finds soemthing else. He doesn't really do any research at well his RBEM idea isn't even his own concept but was ripped from TVP by a guy called Jaqcue fresco. TVP has been working on preaching about RBE for a few decades but have nothing to show for themsevles. I don't think Peter Joseph is very smart at all, the exact opposite. I think he's more interested in being a profiteer then he is in having any sound ideas. Refence: Venus Project and The Zeitgeist Movement split http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8VzYXMgj0 Why did The Venus Project part ways with The Zeitgeist Movement? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJbRM46tltI Jordan Maxwell Mentions Peter Joseph Merola's Name In 2008 Curious phenomenon. (Re: Acharya S.) http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/1365/curious-phenomenon-re-acharya-s/#post-20211 Zeitgeist - Introduction http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/ Zeitgeist: Addendum - Introduction http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist-addendum/ Zeitgeist III: Moving Forwardhttp://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/2378/zeitgeist-iii-moving-forward/#post-28945 ~ Ten reasons why we have to reject The Venus Project ~ Venus Fly Trap http://other.skepticproject.com/articles/the-venus-flytrap/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C. Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The ZM/VP fails completely on economics. There would be no money, making price calculation impossible. Society would disintegrate into grinding poverty. Murray Rothbard debunked the ZM/VP over 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The ZM/VP fails completely on economics. There would be no money, making price calculation impossible. Society would disintegrate into grinding poverty. Murray Rothbard debunked the ZM/VP over 40 years ago. Agreed, though because of his discussion with Stefan, Peter claimes to have developed a way to calculate prices within his RBEM aka communism. In Peter's own words, " "Friends, In mid Nov., I will be participating in a TZM Townhall in Berlin, Germany. I will be giving a critical and long overdue talk entitled "Economic Calculation in a Natural Law/Resource Based Economy." This will explain the long confused issue of how interaction & management in such a model works and how it is not a "centrally planned" social system, as per our endless critics. More info soon for those in Europe who would like to attend." https://www.facebook.com/peterjosephofficial Why RBE will never work. (a must see for zeitgeist supporters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 @Alan Chapman: You are my media research idol. Once again, you cut to the chase and find references that are SOOOOO applicable. @PoopMeat: Stop SPAMMING. Why post the same video in multiple threads? Why keep pontificating on issues that members here already know? Attention-seeking is not a productive way to garner positive attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 @Alan Chapman: You are my media research idol. Once again, you cut to the chase and find references that are SOOOOO applicable. @PoopMeat: Stop SPAMMING. Why post the same video in multiple threads? Why keep pontificating on issues that members here already know? Attention-seeking is not a productive way to garner positive attention. I'm not spamming. I'd ask why ask the same thing on two different topics that I'm spamming? "Why keep pontificating on issues that members here already know?" So you speak on behalf of everyone? "Attention-seeking is not a productive way to garner positive attention." Interesting attempting to reveal my motives. No I'm not attention seeking, I wanted to share information and I'm doing so. However I think your donig a bit of attention seeking yourself as you basically point me out, mush me in a category then tell me I'm spamming without giving a good enough reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 @PoopMeat: Bye now! You've been IGNORED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 @PoopMeat: Bye now! You've been IGNORED! Nice you should of ignored me in the first place or PMed me you disrupted this topic a bit lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 UnIgnore for the purpose of elementary schooling: THIS IS MY TOPIC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 UnIgnore for the purpose of elementary schooling: THIS IS MY TOPIC! I give up you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Lol. Funny. When I first saw this thread a couple of days back I thought "*sigh*... why has someone started yet ANOTHER JP/zeitgeist thread which adds nothing to the other half dozen". You still win though, because I couldn't possibly side with someone named 'poopmeat" O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkskyabove Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 @Hannibal: Thanks for bringing it back a step. I did get caught up there for a few days trying to debunk all the sudden TZM stuff. I'm OUTY 5000 on it. Not productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Lol. Funny. When I first saw this thread a couple of days back I thought "*sigh*... why has someone started yet ANOTHER JP/zeitgeist thread which adds nothing to the other half dozen". You still win though, because I couldn't possibly side with someone named 'poopmeat" O.O Poopmeat is sort of a play on words for TZMers. TZmers always preach about a RBE being abundant and natural and poopmeat is abundant and natural. RBE and poopmeat is a natural fit... Poopmeat is extracted proteins from fecal matter. Shit Burger: Japanese Researcher Creates Artificial Meat From Human Feces http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvSPQ7megQ @Hannibal: Thanks for bringing it back a step. I did get caught up there for a few days trying to debunk all the sudden TZM stuff. I'm OUTY 5000 on it. Not productive. TZM stuff isn't productive but then again talking about it may help others stay away or get out of it. That's the reason I spend time on such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C. Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 "Friends, In mid Nov., I will be participating in a TZM Townhall in Berlin, Germany. I will be giving a critical and long overdue talk entitled "Economic Calculation in a Natural Law/Resource Based Economy." This will explain the long confused issue of how interaction & management in such a model works and how it is not a "centrally planned" social system, as per our endless critics. I'm axious to hear how he solved the economic calculation problem without the use of market prices; a feat which no one but Ludwig von Mises has been able to accomplish in 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'm axious to hear how he solved the economic calculation problem without the use of market prices; a feat which no one but Ludwig von Mises has been able to accomplish in 100 years. I'm interested as well. Peter's MO from the past for example his TZM companion guide is to hire researchers to do the research for him, the only real work he does is he simply recites information off his podium unchallenged while TZMer's eat it up. I don't think it will have any real meaning he's just trying to get any type of publicity since TZM is dead. I don't follow TZM as much as TVP but I'll find out when he is doing that lecture and post it up on FDR when it's out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh F Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 the chat is always swarming with socialist infiltrators. Trying to have productive convos and suddenly people are saying things like "Capitalism sucks" or the other day I was talking about my business and someone actually said "I'm sure you're just doing it to make a profit!" Its like holy shit fuck off, we dont want you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickC Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 the chat is always swarming with socialist infiltrators. Trying to have productive convos and suddenly people are saying things like "Capitalism sucks" or the other day I was talking about my business and someone actually said "I'm sure you're just doing it to make a profit!" Its like holy shit fuck off, we dont want you here. I try not to be too conspiratorial in my thinking. But leftists have a history of trying to co-opt a 'good thing'. Given FDR's recent catapult into the wider reaches of the internet, it doesn't entirely surprise me that we get lefists coming in. We've been relatively free of them for several years. But in the wider world there are bazillions of them. Time to put on our debating boxing gloves and see them scatter (NAP stylee of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fleming Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Even if a supercomputer could be constructed that would perform efficient economic calculations it doesn't matter. Money is freedom for individuals to make their own decisions and solve their own economic calculations. Taking away money and replacing it with a super-computer would remove that freedom. Even if it did work as claimed. Peter made out TZM 1 which the religion side of it was based on Acharya S/D. Murdock and Jordan Maxwell. Soon After Peter made TZM.com at which he advocated people to vote for Ron paul. He then made TZM movie 2 and based the work off Fresco's work, he then tried to ditch Acharya S, Ron Paul and Jordan Maxwell (Jordan had rejected Peter) and make his flock beleive in Fresco and Jordan Maxwell. Peter then got his flock to beleive in TVP until the TVP and TZM split occured now he rejects TVP but still teaches TVP's RBE (resource based economy) But calls it a RBEM (resource based economic model) as to not infringe on a possible trademark of TVP's RBE. OK, well I'll concede that point. You are a lot better researched on the TZM than I am. I just watched the movies and listened to the Stef interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Poopmeat is sort of a play on words for TZMers. TZmers always preach about a RBE being abundant and natural and poopmeat is abundant and natural. RBE and poopmeat is a natural fit... Poopmeat is extracted proteins from fecal matter. Shit Burger: Japanese Researcher Creates Artificial Meat From Human Feces http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvSPQ7megQ SOYLENT GREEN IS POO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopMeat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 SOYLENT GREEN IS POO! HAHAHAHA, SOYLENT GREEN FALLS IN LINE WITH A RBE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fleming Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I came acrooss this interview with Jacques Fresco. I think the old guy has lost the plot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdiaz03 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I don't think that Peter Joseph is deliberately trying to deceive; I think that he sincerely believes in the things he espouses. However, he is ill-informed and misguided. Yup Just like Michael Moore...Both have the best intentions at heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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