Tetanus Vaccine

[Mike Larson]

Yesterday, my 2 year old daughter tripped while we were hiking. She fell down and hit her head on a flat rock which gave her a pretty bad cut. We weren't sure whether or not stitches would be required in order to preven scarring, so we took her to emergency just to be cautious.

Up to that point, my daughter had not been vaccinated for tetanus. The doctor strongly recommended that she be given the vaccine as well as tetanus immunoglobulin in order to prevent infection. Initially, I told the doctor that I would rather not... that I would go home an research it a little further, and take her in that night if I though it was necessary. So he went away and came back with a second doctor. Together they used manipulation and scare tactics (no facts) to finally get me to aggree to the vaccine.

Last night I did some research, and I am now very much regretting my decision. Not that I found a ton of evidence to suggest that I should be really worried about some adverse reaction from the vaccine... but what I did find is evidence that the vaccine was completely unnecessary.

 

Here are some ot the things I found:

 

1. The liklihood of death from tetanus in Canada is roughly 1 in 6 million (and even if you make the assumption that immunization is 100% responsible for the decline in tetanus infection/deaths over the past several decades the likelihood only increases to 1 in 2 million).

 

2. It is nearly impossible to get a tetanus infection from an open (bleeding) wound since tetanus is an anaerobic infection.

 

3. A very high percentage (as high as 77%) of tetanus infections are from intravenous drug use (mostly affecting herroine addicts).

 

4. At least up until 2002 the US government admitted that only 60% of the population was immunized against tetanus. So even if you assumed the vaccine was 100% effective, you would only expect the frequency of infection to drop by 60%.. But the drop in the rate of infection is closer to 99.5%.

 

5. Of the known cases of infection in the US from 2001 until 2008, the percentage of vaccinated individuals was the same as the general population (ie. 60% of people who were infected with tetanus, had received the vaccination).

 

6. The rate of tetanus infections in the US was already on a rapid decline prior to the vaccination becoming commonly used.

 

7. "Unlike childhood diseases, it isn’t possible to gain natural immunity to tetanus. If you’ve had it once, you can have it again. The body does not produce antibodies to Clostridium Tetani. Vaccination is the act of injecting a viral or bacterial substance into the body to make it produce antibodies to that disease. However, since no natural antibodies can be made, then there is no possible way that artificial antibodies could be made either. If the disease cannot give you protection, then how can a vaccine?"

 

 

Please let me know if you can find anything that contradicts/supports these findings. I apologize for the lack of citations. I just made a bunch of quick notes as I was going through the material last night. Most of this information comes from government sponsored websites. I can get you the sources if anyone is interested in something specific.

 

(fyi.. no stitches were necessary for my daughter

[Josh F]

I actually had a bad reaction to a Tetanus shot myself, which prompted a foray into conspiracy world.  I got incredibly sick and the left side of my face swelled on massively within a day.  Some antibiotics cured me though.  They're not a conspiracy, but there are low quality vaccines, and as u said they're not all necessary.  Similarly I left my dog with my parents for a month and they got her vaccinated.  She became epileptic.  But in this case the doctors used 5 vaccines at one time, a few of which were these shitty low cost old vaccines.

 

In all likelihood though your daughter will be fine

[kirk paolinelli]

Your daughter should be fine. I don't think the doctors were meaning to be manipulative. I would bet they are more worried about litigation. I believe it's considered a standard of care to give a tetanus in that situation. So if they deviate from that even if it was your decision. If in the extremely rare case something happened. You would have a sympathetic case with your two year old daughter, and you could say "the doctors didn't educate me enough to understand my decision". CYA, cover your ass. Is a big driver in the medical field.

[Wuzzums]

In between arguments that correlation does not equal causation, I'm very curious about the source for your nr 7 point.

 

 

7. "Unlike childhood diseases, it isn’t possible to gain natural immunity to tetanus. If you’ve had it once, you can have it again. The body does not produce antibodies to Clostridium Tetani. Vaccination is the act of injecting a viral or bacterial substance into the body to make it produce antibodies to that disease. However, since no natural antibodies can be made, then there is no possible way that artificial antibodies could be made either. If the disease cannot give you protection, then how can a vaccine?"

 

 

I've studied some immunology and there's not a single pathogen that cannot possibly illicit an immune response, it's all a matter of time.

And regarding your nr 2 point. Anaerobic bacteria implies bacteria that can live without air, but the absence of air (oxygen) isn't necessarily required.

 

But with all of this aside I think the statistics are the most telling. The whole tetanus shot craze it seems to me to come from fame. I remember when I was a little kid that if you scratched yourself against a rusty nail or something you had to take a tetanus shot. Needless to say we all were full of those types of wounds and we all hid it from our parents. Not a single case of tetanus. Not even now, I never heard nor do I know anyone that has ever heard of a tetanus case. It's one of those diseases you only read about in medical textbooks. And even if it does occur, it's treatable. But then again so are the side-effects of vaccination.

 

Or there's the possibility the tetanus infection is rampant. We get immunized from the vaccine we get as babies and because of constant exposure to the bacteria we gain lifelong immunity. So further vaccination is just overkill.

[Roberto]

You were bullied in a very vulnerable moment. My friend is a birth doula and she sees this happening a lot with hospital births that very conveniently turn into cesarean births once the doctor scares the mom enough to make her question herself.

[Mike Larson]

Kirk and ThoughtTerrrorist,

 

Thanks for your comments. Yeah, so far there doesn't seem to be any negative side affects in my daughter. Sorry to hear what happened to you, ThoughtTerrorist.

My logic at the time was that either way, I was dealing with very remote probabilities. But the doctors scared me enough about the possibility of tetanus that I just went with the vaccine.

 

 

 

I've studied some immunology and there's not a single pathogen that cannot possibly illicit an immune response, it's all a matter of time.

And regarding your nr 2 point. Anaerobic bacteria implies bacteria that can live without air, but the absence of air (oxygen) isn't necessarily required.

 

But with all of this aside I think the statistics are the most telling.

 

I'm certainly no medical expert, so I appreciate your corrections. But yeah, the most compelling evidence for me are the stats (which don't require a lot of medical knowledge to understand).

You were bullied in a very vulnerable moment. My friend is a birth doula and she sees this happening a lot with hospital births that very conveniently turn into cesarean births once the doctor scares the mom enough to make her question herself.

 

It certainly did feel like I was being bullied. Perhaps the most annoying thing to me was when the doctor kept saying "this really isn't about the vaccine... it's about your daughter's health." Super manipulative. I tried to correct him on the logic of that statement, but he kept on saying it.

 

I'm kind of kicking myself now that I didn't think to ask the simple question, "what is the likelihood of my daughter actually getting tetanus if she does not receive the vaccine?" Surely, if the medical establishment is encouraging this as a routine practice, they should at least have some of those basic stats readily available.

[PatrickC]

I used to work in the building industry back in the 90's and the UK govt was considering making tetnas jabs mandtory for those employed by the profession every 10 years.  I think they may have done so in the meantime. I recall an old employer telling me of one guy that caught it, but that was in the 1950's I believe and it was his only case ever.

 

There is some evidence that suggests you are more likely to catch this rarity from certain professions. For instance I used to build the footings (foundations) for buildings, this would often include the laying of sewage piping too. Not that this was much of an issue with new builds, but with building extensions or the refurb and strengthening of existing foundations you would often come into contact with less than desirable sewage spills from cracked piping. Since you are often working with large power tools like angle grinders in small spaces the risk of injury was a lot higher. Although other than the one case I mentioned above, compared with all the other risks associated with the profession, it was the least of our worries frankly.

[LovePrevails]

In the whole of the first world war with shrapnel flying about only a handful of soldiers contracted tetanus.

 

There may be use to some vaccines, for all I know, but they should be chose sparingly as your blood cannot puke up the way your stomach can

of your lungs can sneeze, therefor toins put in your body through the blood are more or less here to stay

 

and as you know vaccines have ether, detergeant, thermosil, and cells from eggs or foetuses in them amongst other ingredients which won't easily be removed

[Wesley]

In the whole of the first world war with shrapnel flying about only a handful of soldiers contracted tetanus.

 

There may be use to some vaccines, for all I know, but they should be chose sparingly as your blood cannot puke up the way your stomach can

of your lungs can sneeze, therefor toins put in your body through the blood are more or less here to stay

 

and as you know vaccines have ether, detergeant, thermosil, and cells from eggs or foetuses in them amongst other ingredients which won't easily be removed

In relation to this, it is probably healthy for those who are able to to give blood periodically.

 

Our old "blood disposal method" used to be that we would bleed and get cut on fairly regular occasions. We don't really do that much anymore.

 

 

I am very conflicted about vaccines with kids. I think I would have to go down the list and decide which ones are reasonable and which aren't. Even that makes me uncomfortable, so I am not sure.

 

Lets say its a vaccine that gives guaranteed pain to a child of the pinch and such which can be very difficult for a baby or young child. It seems utilitarian and unprincipled to not do it for a disease that has a .001% occurrence and another that has a .01% occurrence, but then to get the vaccine for a disease that has a .1% occurrence.

 

Not sure how to solve this one. Obviously it would be much, much worse if my child was killed or permanently damaged by my not getting a vaccine. I am not sure what the best method would be if a doctor told me I needed a vaccine, even if the odds of having a problem were very small.

[GRosado]

The tetanus shot is the only shot I would get every once in awhile the others are filled with sit that I don't want in me.

[ccuthbert]

Your daughter should be fine. I don't think the doctors were meaning to be manipulative. I would bet they are more worried about litigation.

And that's NOT manipulative?????

[Ahren]

What I do know is that these childhood illnesses have been almost eradicated from our lives. The great majority of people have never seen a child with Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, epiglottits from an H. influenza infection, an infant with Pertussis, a person with Diptheria and therefore as we all know the unseen goes unnoticed.

 

I guarentee that if one has seen these diseases in close contacts one would rush to vaccinate their child.

 

I am very concerned with the subset of the libertarian community which grabs ahold of pseudoscience and takes it as fact.

 

I understand the skepticism but to reach conclusions it has to be backed up with research that adheres to the scientific method. The research shows that vaccines are very safe with limited side effects.

 

The influenza vaccine is very questionable to how well it works in elderly and it is mostly likely unneeded in healthy adults. The data actual does show this and this may be where people begin to get confused. They latch on to it and then question what if they all are useless?

[Mike Larson]

Ahren, I agree that just because one or two vaccines appear to be unnecessary, it does not follow that all vaccines are unnecessary. But when one vaccine is being pushed as absolutely essential (and you are told that you are putting your daughter's life in grave danger if you don't use it), and then it turns out that the vaccine is completely irrelevant, I don't think it is unreasonable to question the necessity of the other vaccines that are being pushed. I think that there is some room for curiosity here.

[Wesley]