What is the point of dream interpretation?

[OtherOtie]

I've been sort of back and forth regarding my stance on dream interpretation--mostly because I haven't investigated it in much depth in the literature, but I've always just assumed the idea that my subconscious (or whatever term is psychologically applicable... unconscious?) would be able to create these elaborate and clever metaphors was beyond the pale of something I could accept, considering that not even in my conscious state am I deliberately able devise such metaphors.

 

(That could just be because I personally am terrible at metaphors.)

 

At the same time, though, it's obvious to me that dreams do have something important to tell us about our own psyche. This is evident to me primarily because I dream about some things with more regularity and emotion than others. There must be a reason why, and I think that alone is worth exploring.

 

I'm familiar with Stefan's perspective on dreams, and have heard him try his hand at a few analyses, which I thought were rather interesting and seemed to provide clarity for the other person. What I struggle with, is, again, this idea that there is a sort of puzzle within our dreams that we might, in principle, be able to decipher. Particularly, I'm wondering what the basis is for thinking that we can expect objects in dreams to serve as symbols. I could understand if the person has a tendency to think in symbols (such as Stefan, who is quite spectacular with his use of metaphor and allegory) might also dream in symbols, but for someone like myself who might take an hour to come up with a decent allegory, it's hard to believe I can do it without trying in my sleep.

 

There's also the question of how we can ever know if we have really "cracked" the puzzle, so to speak. Since we don't ultimately have access to a legend that will tell us which objects correspond to which things, it's hard to know with any degree of certainty if we truly have our dream figured out or if we are just imposing meaning on it after the fact.

 

Which leads me to ultimately question if the purpose of dream interpretation is not to presume that there is some puzzle there to solve, but just to use the dream as a sort of stepping stone to self knowledge--and that, perhaps, the real insight is not in the content of the dream itself but the process of attempting to interpret the dream.

 

So I am wondering what you all think about dream analysis. What do you think is the scientific or psychological basis for presuming that dreams can be interpreted as symbols, or do you think the purpose of the analysis is not in that presumption, but in something else? Thank you for your thoughts in advance. :-)

[Wesley]

Dreams tell you things that you already know to some level, or else dreams would be coming from some mystical part external to you, which doesn't make sense.

 

Dreams sometimes you know exactly what is meant. This would be conscious knowledge.

 

When you have trouble figuring out what it means, then it is something unconscious. Thus, symbols and allegories that you understand consciously are used by the mind to express the unconscious thought. (For instance, try and explain the game of football to someone who has never seen an organized sport. You likely would use a lot of symbols and metaphors and such.)

 

When I have trouble with a dream at times, I have a few people who I will ask or I can post it on the boards. Sometimes a theory will be presented and I just do not care and it doesn't seem right and just doesn't work for me. This will tell me that I need to look further or try going at things from a different angle.

 

When it is correct, I feel it in my body whatever emotion is being portrayed. Like that feeling becomes conscious whether it was in my gut or in my chest tightening or in something else. I'm sure I got the term from the show, but this theory "resonates" with you so that you can feel that it is true and it bring something that you knew all along into your conscious thoughts.

 

 

These are my thoughts on dreams along the lines of your questions. The best way to test is to test these things is to start a dream journal, write down anything you can remember in your dreams, do some analysis yourself, and once you get a dream that you are stuck on or have repetitively then ask for help from Stefan or post it on the boards or ask for a friend who is good at dream analysis to help you work through it. Once you get the feeling of an explanation resonating with you, then you will be able to understand what is meant by it.

[OtherOtie]

Thanks for your input Wesley. However, I'm not sure if it answers my fundamental question about why we can expect our dreams to "mean" anything in the first place (at least, beyond whatever narrative happens to be told in the dream). Perhaps I'm missing something in your post, but these questions still linger...

[Wesley]

Why wouldn't it mean something? I rarely ever see completely useless information relayed. If it was useless to your mind then it would not be thinking of that information.

 

Unless I am missing something, this seems to follow logically. Feel free to correct me.

[OtherOtie]

Maybe I'm not being clear enough regarding my question. Say I have a dream (this is just off the top of my head, I haven't actually had this dream) about an alien invasion where I run home to my mother only to discover that she has been compromised by the aliens and is now under brain control. What reason do we have for thinking that this dream is about anything more than an alien invasion wherein my mother gets mind controlled? That is, why would we then try to theorize and understand what the aliens symbolize, what it means for my mother to be under mind control, etc. 

[Wesley]

Well let us assume that this didn't happen to the dreamer.

 

Thus, that is why you can assume it has other meaning.

 

That story only has meaning to you because it analogizes with something in reality. The goal is to figure out what that would be.

 

For instance, knowing what your favorite movie is can tell a lot about someone. 

 

Mine was Equilibrium. Not because anything like that ever happened to me. It was because my family was a society where feeling wasn't allowed in the name of creating peace until I was experimenting with feeling and was able to rebel against the society. That is why the movie resonated with me. I did not figure that out for years after that was my favorite movie.

 

If it didn't resonate with me, then I wouldn't really care, I wouldn't really remember it and I certainly wouldn't originate the ideas in my mind.

 

Does this make more sense?

[Kevin Beal]

Even if the only therapeutic value of dream interpretation were that the symbolism was interesting and provoked thought about our lives causing us to introspect / reflect, then that's value enough I think.

[Guest darkskyabove]

I would add that all dreams do not, necessarily, need to have symbolic meaning that is relevant to reality. There seems to be room for the sleeping brain to engage in the use of imagination and creativity. It is also possible, I would say likely, that some dreams are a way for the brain to clean out its subconscious closet. Purging the clutter, so to speak.

[mandi]

Thanks for your input Wesley. However, I'm not sure if it answers my fundamental question about why we can expect our dreams to "mean" anything in the first place (at least, beyond whatever narrative happens to be told in the dream). Perhaps I'm missing something in your post, but these questions still linger...

The fundamental answer is God.  I'm not religious either.  You have to look at dreams as though they were metaphorical language.  Language with a structure like I'm talking to you now.  My sentence has a beginning and an end and each word has a meaning.  So do dreams.  In dreams you have the big picture metaphor like "I was being chased by a clown" and subtle meanings (the clown was dressed in mostly red and had a knife).  The big picture metaphor obviously reflects an attempt to avoid something and the subtle details of the color red and a knife clue you to negative intentions or conflict).  God is the only reasonable explanation as to why your sleeping brain can know things your waking brain could never know.  Because even if a psychic ability existed in humans there would have to some kind of intelligent system controlling that flow of information.Dream symbols are easy enough to figure out if you look at them through the eyes of God.  To do that you have to ask yourself what does God do all day long?  He watches.  So whenever you dream of an animal go watch that animal's behavior and feel it.  When you dream of a hammer go pick up a hammer and watch it being used.  Experience the symbol to see the metaphor.

[cherapple]

Maybe I'm not being clear enough regarding my question. Say I have a dream (this is just off the top of my head, I haven't actually had this dream) about an alien invasion where I run home to my mother only to discover that she has been compromised by the aliens and is now under brain control. What reason do we have for thinking that this dream is about anything more than an alien invasion wherein my mother gets mind controlled? That is, why would we then try to theorize and understand what the aliens symbolize, what it means for my mother to be under mind control, etc. 

 

The value of dreams is that they are another avenue to experience, learn about, and develop a deeper understand of (and relationship with) yourself. 

 

In the hypothetical dream about "an alien invasion where you run home to your mother," for example, what do you feel? How do you feel about yourself? Your mother? The aliens? Do the situation and the feelings it elicits remind you of any events in your waking life? Why might your unconscious mind want to create such a situation or elicit such feelings? Are you needing to process something? Is something bothering you in your waking life of which you are not fully conscious, or that you want to ignore? What are the consequences of not being conscious? What might be the rewards of listening to yourself and achieving a greater understanding of yourself? 

 

Symbols in dreams can be interesting and even fascinating, but I focus most on the feelings because they are the most honest and telling experiences that we have about who we are. 

[OtherOtie]

If it didn't resonate with me, then I wouldn't really care, I wouldn't really remember it and I certainly wouldn't originate the ideas in my mind.

 

Does this make more sense?

 

That makes some sense. So if I'm understanding you correctly, this feeling of "resonance" aroused by the dream can be taken as an indication that there is something deeper going on? 

 

Even if the only therapeutic value of dream interpretation were that the symbolism was interesting and provoked thought about our lives causing us to introspect / reflect, then that's value enough I think.

 

Agreed. I'm just wondering if that is the extent of its value as an exercise.

 

I would add that all dreams do not, necessarily, need to have symbolic meaning that is relevant to reality. There seems to be room for the sleeping brain to engage in the use of imagination and creativity. It is also possible, I would say likely, that some dreams are a way for the brain to clean out its subconscious closet. Purging the clutter, so to speak.

 

I understand that concept, but I'm wondering what the scientific basis is for believing this is actually the case. I'm not denying there is one (quite frankly, I haven't checked) -- I'm just curious to know what it is.

 

You have to look at dreams as though they were metaphorical language.  Language with a structure like I'm talking to you now.  My sentence has a beginning and an end and each word has a meaning.  So do dreams.

 

Well, this is kind of what I'm inquiring about. I'm wondering what the basis is for thinking that dreams are coded like this.

 

Symbols in dreams can be interesting and even fascinating, but I focus most on the feelings because they are the most honest and telling experiences that we have about who we are. 

 

Those are some interesting thoughts. I do have a tendency to focus on what feelings my dreams arouse rather than look for symbols. But I don't want to miss out on symbols either, provided I have good reason to think they're there. Which is kind of what I'm wondering about in this topic... what is the psychological basis for the symbolic approach to dream analysis that people (such as Stefan) often take? 

 

By the way, thanks to you all for replying. I'm interested to hear further thoughts as I'm really curious about this whole dream analysis thing and definitely want to take advantage of it if there's something to it.

[Pepin]

Scientifically, dreaming is quite complex and not really understood. There are large methodological issues that make it very difficult to study. At the moment, there are two primary theories as to what dreams are, and I linked a video below that gives a better overview of the science of dreaming than I can.

 

 

Personally with my own experience with dreams, once I start to record them and try to figure them out I will start to figure them out as I am dreaming, and then the dream starts throwing me for tons of loops. If I ever become lucid in a dream, the most common route is for me to dream that I am waking up, which a lot of the time works in making me forget I am dreaming. For a good example of this, I recommend reading this dream of mine.

 

I don't know, I really get the impression that some part of my mind knows what is best for me. There have been plenty of times where I've been dead tired and ought to have slept, but where I decided to lay down with my eyes open. What ends up happening is that my eyes will have closed, but I will be seeing an imagine of the ceiling, and my brain is trying to trick me into sleeping. And when I'm in a dream and am about to wake up, the dream really hard to keep me sleeping.

 

An issue I experience is that the most I figure out my dreams, the most they become indecipherable, like abstract art that can't be described.

 

I do have a lot of dreams about mundane things, like being at work, but those aren't really interesting to remember or to record, and you tend to lose memory of a dream within 10 minutes of waking up.

 

I think the best way to answer most of these questions is to start a dream journal and to find out for yourself. As someone who was initially far more critical of this idea than you are, once I began analyzing my dreams it began difficult to not change my mind.

 

What is the psychological basis for the symbolic approach to dream analysis that people (such as Stefan) often take? 

 

There are theories, but these aren't really scientific in the sense of being supported by empirical studies. Symbolism is subjective and has little ability to be described objectively. Imagine an overly rational alien is studying humans and they watch a ton of earth movies with heavy symbolism. Although the symbolism may be very direct and considered obvious and have objective meaning to humans, the alien would have no real methodology for testing if something was a symbol, and it likely will go over the alien's head. To a large degree, this is the problem with verifying the problem in and out of dreams.

 

There is technology that is coming that is making it possible to see what people are dreaming. It will become far easier to test certain ideas, but it really doesn't overcome the methodological issues of test for symbols and metaphors. Another large issue is that symbols in dreams are likely to be quite personal to the person.

 

With all of that said, a great book I'd recommend is Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung.

[Wesley]

Great video @Pepin