Irwin Leonardo Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 I'm debating my philosophy professor on friday, and if its possible, maybe I can receive some tips on this topic? the debate topic is "Should prostitution be legal" First, since its allowed.. I'm gonna play the "5 Most important questions" youtube from stef then I'm going to go on from there I'm gonna start with defining the word prostitution and the word legal prostitution which is the voluntary exchange of service for some kind of resource.. mostly the currency in that specific geographical area... money - as a base first principle legal which is the permission of behaviour allowed by the government based on a geographical location the professor is going to argue from effect as expected but she might jump from M and E from time to time My Argument "When a transaction that which involves two or more people that is voluntary isn't a problem for that which has consent from both parties. for example.. if two people voluntarily engage in a sexual interaction.. sex.. then it is called "Love making" If either one of them are is forced to engage in the interaction then it is called rape. If a behaviour is then called Illegal, it doesn't mean that the behaviour is bad.. although there are consequences, people who decides to engage in any behaviour that which results to a negative effect should provide some restitution to those who are affected. in this case, prostitution.. since there are some expected risks, the effects could be temporary.. or worse.. permanent.. concerning health. thus Making prostitution illegal wont solve the problem as in most in all cases, it only exacerbates it." Her expected argument ( I'm assuming that she will list a bunch of list that supports that it should be illegal like rape.. physical/mental abuse etc. ) My response " ( I have a link that provides statistics that mentions that majority of prostitutes were abused as a child most by their parents and some by guardians.. 92% of them wants to leave the said profession) showing that.. making it illegal is the worst solution to solve the issue, as first.. violating property rights of the prostitutes and the Buyer in some states as the law forcefully persecute two consenting adults in the transaction.. just because a few politicians says its wrong and 2nd placing them inside a prison (showing some statistics of rape inside the prison) which is a den of more rape seems very counter productive. " at this point what ever goes.. Lolz any tips? corrections? suggestions? thanks -Irwin Leonardo (Location; Victoria,B.C. Canada)
Wesley Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Here are some arguments I just came up with off the top of my head. Somewhat from more effective to less effective. I wouldn't use any arguments that you are not fully comfortable with and understand as that is how you could end up getting caught in a debate. If her argument is that "They have been physically or sexually abused and that is why we should use force and violence in order to throw them in jail or kill them" seems like an odd argument. Abuse victims should deserve help and counseling, not jail sentences. She will portray her side as compassionate and the more that you can take that away from her by saying "her solution is to throw abused people in jail and my solution is to recommend counseling and help from a de-stigmatized industry of voluntary exchange" makes your side become the compassionate side. You can also talk about the conflation between porn that is legal and prostitution. Pay for sex = illegal. Pay for sex with a camera = legal is a bit of an inconsistency. Even to bring more conflation (and to maybe stretch things a bit too far), lets take an amoral economic calculation of a date/classic relationship. A guy would tend to pay more for the activities or in a marriage would be doing more labor and providing more resources. A woman tends to provide sexual availability/ reproduction in exchange for those resources. Obviously, any relationship I would be in would have more to it than that, but it is hard to figure out in an objective, economic sense where the line is between a male providing resources and a woman providing sexual availability in the average person's date vs a prostitute. There are many women who date almost exclusively to get the occasional meals paid for and to have a fun time where they do not need to give up much themselves just like there are men who date exclusively to get laid occasionally.
Irwin Leonardo Posted October 21, 2013 Author Posted October 21, 2013 thank you! The challenge there now I would assume if the expected happens is to take her side of being the more compassionate one.. well, first off, I think she will try to make that argument that prostitutes should be put into jail to... "Prevent prostitution" which doesnt really make any sense are these are abused people... blah blah blah.. cause once they are out, the police records they had is permanent which makes them less able to get more opportunities in the long run.. providing them help and counselling is way better than placing them in rape rooms Thanks for giving that porn and dating argument as well I really appreciate it
Irwin Leonardo Posted October 21, 2013 Author Posted October 21, 2013 convo from chat Irwin Leonardo I posted a topic on the forums http://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/37415-prostitution-argument-from-morality-vs-effect/ I'm debating my philosophy teacher on friday Lolz and english isnt my first language.. hahaha!! LuckyNumber23 but isn't that cheating ? Irwin Leonardo I hope I made my post easier to understand Morse Code Stutters oh man Im as much in the dark as anyone about this Irwin Leonardo cheating? this is a form of research.. cheating is done in the moment not before.. its called preparation! ahaha! Morse Code Stutters prostitution SHOULD be legal itd definitely reduce crimes committed around it 11:05 AM Morse Code Stutters people having the choice to engage in sex for money is perfectly fine LuckyNumber23 ahhh. this is how you yoiung ones call it. Morse Code Stutters but that raises the question as to why their self esteem is low enough that that they have to resort to that kind of profession Undelution1982 Nope da American Puritan Club doesn't approve it Irwin Leonardo argument.. please.. any tips would help hahaha! Morse Code Stutters am I not helping so far? is it solely focus on the legality or the ethical aspect too? LuckyNumber23 how is a traditional marriage different from prostitution one may ask Morse Code Stutters because it is just continuing to exploit victims of childhood molestation Irwin Leonardo yeap you are ill probably copy paste this conversation in the post later LuckyNumber23 after all, the woman exchanges sex for money Irwin Leonardo " continuing to exploit victims of childhood molestation " can you elaborate please? Morse Code Stutters most prostitutes are prostitutes, because according to a study, are victims of childhood molestation the fact they have lowered their self value due to such ingregious acts Irwin Leonardo i mean how so that its.. continuing to exploit victims of childhood molestation Morse Code Stutters is the very reason why the only value they can find in themselves is the offering of their bodies for money because it's unexamined Irwin Leonardo Mysterion!! Morse Code Stutters their childhood trauma is unexamined, so they lower the bar on their personal value. These women can be doing more for themselves than just being objects of carnal desire lol YES now you must read my messages in his voice Irwin Leonardo i already am hahaha! Morse Code Stutters HAHAHAH alright good ok now its making me laugh now that Im typing with his voice in mind Irwin Leonardo how is that supporting the legalization of prostitution? Morse Code Stutters oh I dont know yet...Im trying to build toward that Im more attuned to the ethical nature of it than legality Irwin Leonardo ok ok.. hahaha!! my apologies Morse Code Stutters but the fact that its illegal, it drives up the cost of it right? its untaxable Irwin Leonardo yeap, I can see that.. but im debating a professor.. hahaha Irwin Leonardo oh yes yes! 11:10 AM Morse Code Stutters most pimps have to make their money through other means such as dealing drugs the very same drugs designed to NUMB the prostitutes feelings to they can put UP with being fucked for money yeah I dunno Ive never debated professors, so I dunno how much higher the standard for reason and evidence has to be...but I think I've got a good foundation for a start on it not too sure about it being valuable as the only framework to look at it through Irwin Leonardo its pretty much the same.. but this is my first time debating one.. so the gap between experience and knowledge are huge Morse Code Stutters well I want to know why you think it should be legal Irwin Leonardo its in the post Morse Code Stutters because I might be telling you stuff you already know, or stuff that might deter you from it further oh ok just didnt read the last paragraph yet youre on a good start too Irwin Leonardo if its possible.. maybe post your thought there too... could be usefull to someone in the future as well.. cause its relative to drug addiction.. Morse Code Stutters but I think if it was legal, and that if th government's over seeing eyes protected like they claim to be, then prostitution can be watched over and regulated so that government workers can keep an eye on prostitutes mental health to see if theyve been abused by their customers or pimps a happy whore is a happy pimp after all aghhh but Im just talkin outta my ass as I go along here Irwin Leonardo ..it's hard to make that argument though we both know that we are both talking to statists.. here.. I would sound like a conspiracy theorist i'll just copy paste it haha Morse Code Stutters Wesley already said what I would want to say in addition to that yeah and then see what you can take from what Ive said, either fully face value, or reworded to your understanding hey you might even find a better understanding after refuting a bit of what I said because I know its not fully valid Irwin Leonardo the government wants to maintain problems so that they would be needed 11:15 AM Morse Code Stutters all I'm saying is that if it was legal, the government can extend the same care they have for the welfare state, towards the prostitutes so that government regulation laws can protect them and their health. MUCH like how restaurants require health codes right? Irwin Leonardo I agree.. but i need data.. Morse Code Stutters yes we know that as anarchists, but if youre gonna debate a statist professor, its best to stay in their ideology that IF government can provide a solution Irwin Leonardo oh good!! thats a nice argument Morse Code Stutters well you can compare it to heroin addicts I dont know which countries in europe have these, but they have heroin clinics where people can use fresh clean needles to get their fix and because of these welcoming clinics that help people ease themselves away from their addiction, there's a lower addiction rate Irwin Leonardo I think I own the adult side now in the debate.. but what about child prostitution Morse Code Stutters SWITZERLAND is one of them Irwin Leonardo the topic said isnt limited to one country.. Morse Code Stutters right but if you can learn from that example legalizing things that are addictive allows for more state programs even like AA to arise and actualyl DO help Irwin Leonardo what about switzerland? Morse Code Stutters despite of th monopoly of force that goes behind it Switzerland has heroin clinics and their addiction rates went down exponentialy Irwin Leonardo I'll look in to that Morse Code Stutters instead of viewing prostitutes and drug addicts as criminals, and seeing them as people who need to be helped it reduces its uhhh you know...rate? lost my words there haha got so into it http://sciencenordic.com/heroin-clinics-improve-addicts-lives Irwin Leonardo how can i compare drug addicts to prostitution? Morse Code Stutters this isnt about protitution for sure, but its not unimportant most prostitutes are lured in by charming pimps that turn into abusers 11:20 AM Morse Code Stutters because they're operating under the state law, they will have tendancies to act like their own kinda state and enforce shit. So basically pimps FORCE their prostitutes to stay in the game in a variety of ways: getting them addicted to drugs so that they FUCK for drugs, thus making them manage their childhood traumas in the most counterproductive ways possible Irwin Leonardo my professor doesnt "believe" in sub concious she relates to it as.. remembering stuff Morse Code Stutters he or she wont have to with this in mind yeah like I said, focus on the fantasy that IF government COULD provide the over seeing help it claims, THIS is how it would do it. They could legalize and keep an eye on the pimps and prostitutes to know that its all gonna be peaceful interactions for the most part between the pimps and their slaves, as well as the slaves and their customers they would have enforced doctor check ups to see if theyve contracted STDs and they would limit probably the amount of partners a prostitute can legally have in a week or so Irwin Leonardo woah! one really most important thing we forgot! Morse Code Stutters it hurts my soul to actually see the state as a solution, but if it WAS to do what it was meant to, this is how I persoonally think legal prostitution would work. ALRIGHT Ill stop now I think I typed a lot lol whats that? Irwin Leonardo thats an argument from effect! i guess I should start with morality and jump from effect from time to time.. or do you think its inevitable that I would really have to go to there? Morse Code Stutters what Im using? Irwin Leonardo yep Morse Code Stutters it's inevitable if youre gonna be in a debate with a statist but I dunno how to extend that to morality before we proceed though what do you think of my views on the matter? even if it is from effect Irwin Leonardo oh yes, its great! i didnt thought about switzerland, as an example I really appreciate your help Morse Code Stutters IN SHORT, legalization makes these non violent practices safer (as sad as needing a state has to bring this about) you're welcome Irwin Leonardo yeap that as a principle itll work out 11:25 AM Morse Code Stutters the moral side of it is simple HanKu What kind of professor are you debating? Field? Morse Code Stutters the prostitutes are victims of their circumstance Irwin Leonardo yeap it is.. its so universal that a bunch of stuff will come out Morse Code Stutters to lock them up would only continue to degrade their humanity right? Irwin Leonardo that might produce some anxiety to all people in the class Morse Code Stutters it's immoral to make prostitution illegal because thats excluding them from the safety of what the state claims to provide Irwin Leonardo degrade their humanity even more Morse Code Stutters GOOD it fucking should lol Irwin Leonardo I know hahaha! Morse Code Stutters they need that anxiety to know what theyve been taught is questionable at best Irwin Leonardo I'm gonna play the... five most important questions clip from stef before we start the debate cause its allowed
EvaM Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Surely the only arguments you could offer against legalizing prostitution would be that it encourages physical abuse of women, who are being taken advantage of, and go down the whole human trafficking argument route, but their is an easy and sensible counter to this, which is to say, fine, I totally accept that human trafficking and rape and women being taken advantage of is bad, make them illegal, but the crime is the abuse and rape and kidnapping of the 'prostitutes', not their act of prostitution. It seems to me to be a continuous problem in all law making that government officials invent new laws to try and stop things happening, when the existing laws already cover that. For example, if a large number of murderers happen to also knit in their spare time, it is obviously silly to make knitting illegal, seeing as murder is already illegal. In the same way, the prostitutes are often abused by their pimp or manager or whatever, and so it is the abuse and the maltreatment that is illegal, not the prostitution.
Guest Exceptionalist Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Taken advantage of is not an actual argument, because someone make his opinion look like as if he speaks in the behalf of some other person. You could say that about almost any voluntary interaction you don't condone. You cannot justify a claim against prostitution by crimes which has nothing to do with prostitution itself.
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