Holidays

[FreedomFanBoy]

As enlightened, peaceful parents, how you do handle holidays? 

 

We are constantly asked "What are you dressing your daughter up as for Halloween?", "What is Santa getting her for Christmas?". etc. 

 

We don't do Halloween for 2 main reasons, #1, she's only 2 years old. She doesn't eat candy. It's bad for her. We have diabetes in our family history. and #2, she's only 2 years old! She doesn't understand that it's kinda weird to dress up in some commercialized cartoon character (we don't watch tv), go to neighbor's houses we've never met, begging for something that not good for you, for reasons we can't explain other than "tradition and culture". 

 

When it comes to Christmas, we don't talk about Santa because he's not real. She already has everything she wants, because she's 2, and "tradition and culture" again. It's an arbitrary religious day. Do we give her the gifts that her cousins and grandparents sent her? Yes. But it's not a big deal in our house. 

 

What are your thoughts? What do you do in your homes for the Holidays?

 

For full disclosure, we do cook a big meal for Thanksgivings, but that's because we love food. 

[ribuck]

We didn't do religion or santa, but we still did christmas trees, outdoor lights, christmas presents, special food, etc. The children loved it.

 

When they were young, we gave them things that we would have got for them anyway. For example, when they were ready for a bicycle, they got it at christmas. If relatives asked what to give, we always said "clothes are popular, and toys or games but nothing that needs batteries".

 

As they got older, we gave them things of "better" quality than they would otherwise have. A really nice pair of gloves, for example. Now that they're older teenagers, they would prefer to receive money that they can spend themselves but I don't like to give a gift whose price is stated so I struggle to find other gifts.

 

We didn't like the idea of them going begging house-to-house at halloween, but if they were really keen to go with their friends we did let them do this. When they were very small, we hovered in the distance while they rang the doorbell but as they got older we let them go by themselves - in our suburban area the risk of "stranger danger" is very low. We expected them to make their own fancy-dress outfits as we didn't buy costumes for them. One nice touch (that we only thought of after a few years) was for them to carry some gifts that they could give to the householder after receiving a gift. That went down well.

 

When other children came trick-or-treating at our door, we tried to have treats other than candies. Sometimes we gave interesting fruits (figs, apricots, persimmons), or chocolate milk drinks, or little packs of sultanas, or stickers.

 

Because our children didn't see us participating in halloween, they lost interest in it after a few years. Instead, we would build a campfire in the garden and toast marshmallows.

[FreedomFanBoy]

That sounds really nice. I like the idea of giving gifts to neighbors, seems like a good way to build a relationship with them. 

 

How did you explain holidays, or your lack of participation? We don't want our daughter to be "shunned" by her friends as the weird "Jeahovas Witness" type. Did jealously ever become an issue with your children and the perceived riches their friends received?

[ribuck]

How did you explain holidays, or your lack of participation?

 

If the children were excited by some holiday, we usually participated in some of the "trimmings" rather than in the core festival. At easter, we had great chocolate egg hunts in the garden, even though we weren't celebrating the guy who got nailed up on the cross.

 

Did jealously ever become an issue with your children and the perceived riches their friends received?

 

I don't want to give the wrong idea here. Although our family is much less materialistic than the average English family, we are still quite materialistic by global standards. And within our local community, we hung out with quite a few people who were living alternative lifestyles and were much less materialistic than we were. For example, families who lived in a yurt or on a canal boat instead of in a house. From the point of view of those families, we were probably the ones with the "perceived riches"!

 

I don't know how much younger children are even aware of these things. One time we had finished reading an old story about a rich princess and a poor shoemaker, and my daughter asked innocently "are we like rich or poor?". I could have answered "rich" or "poor", and I think she would have found either answer acceptable.

 

It's different once children become teenagers. At some point they become acutely aware of others, and can't help comparing themselves. Hopefully by then the children have come to appreciate that their situation is unique and cannot be expected to be the same as others. Several times my children said things like "Sally's family have three cars and a boat, but Sally isn't even allowed to use a box of matches to light the candles on her birthday cake" and it was pretty clear that they felt they had the better deal.

[Rayne]

Funny!  I was going to call in to the show yesterday about this topic but my husband and I figured it out so I didn't need to.

 

My concern was that I didn't want to lie to our son (2 1/2) about Santa because Santa does not exist (neither does god but we don't go to church so we don't have to breach that one yet).  My husband's concern was that our son would be that kid telling all of his friends that Santa isn't real and therefore ruining everyone's fun.  

 

He said that believing that Santa is a guy living at the north pole with flying reindeer is on par with looking for gnomes and fairies on a nature walk.  Neither is real but the stories are fun!  I then told him that when I go for walks with our son we don't look for dinosaurs (he's really into dinosaurs), we look for dinosaur bones because that is more realistic.

 

Anyway, for the Santa issue we decided that we wouldn't tell him that Santa was fake but we wouldn't make a big deal out of it either.  Using the "Santa is watching you" manipulation was never even a consideration.  We decided that if our son asks if Santa is real we will ask him "what do you think?" and go from there.  The one thing we haven't agreed on yet is that I want to have the mystery gifts that appear Christmas morning to not say "from Santa" and just leave them blank. 

 

As for Halloween, last year our son was too young to go house to house but he had a really fun time answering the door and handing out candy.  He wore skeleton pajamas.  It was also a really great way to meet our neighbors as we had just moved to the neighborhood.  This year we are going to the event in town where the local businesses host kid's activities and a bouncy house.  Then the day after halloween the YMCA has an exchange where you can trade candy for stickers and toys (free market for kids!).

 

I don't think it's so bad to dress up as your favorite character or animal.  I think it's a lot of fun!  I mean, Comicon would not be the same if no one dressed up as their favorite character!

[ribuck]

When our children asked whether Santa was real, we replied "Some people think he is, some people think he isn't. What do you think?". Then we would honestly answer any questions that they asked. I think it was quite fun for them to enjoy the mystique of not quite knowing, then later being eventually able to work it out for themselves.

 

I remember once my daughter announced to me that "Santa isn't real. Nor is the easter bunny. Nor are elves and fairies. Except for the Tooth Fairy, of course. The Tooth Fairy is real." It wasn't long before she also worked out that the Tooth Fairy didn't exist.

[tasmlab]

My wife and I were initially agreed that Santa would just be a game we played i.e., he'd be known fake from the beginning but it would still be a game to go to bed and then wake up to find that santa came and left presents.

 

Then we chickened out and just did the santa thing like most people.  And it thrills the kids to no end.

 

Then last spring I botched a tooth fairy mission and came out to my 7-year-old that Santa, bunny et al were not real.  She was disappointed for a second and then sort of really thrilled with the knowledge.

 

I asked her if we should continue the ruse with the younger kids.  She thought so absolutely and now delights in sharing the secret.

 

Yea, it's lying.  But its for fun and is gleefully dismissed later.  It's not like religion where the belief is to cause fear and then never relent.

 

To the OP, Halloween is a lot of fun!  So is candy!  You are right that two is a bit young unless you want your daughter to hand out candy.  But when she gets older, you can dress her up like Ayn Rand (make sure she is smoking a cigarette) and raid the neighbors for fun size snickers.

[FreedomFanBoy]

I remember what it was like to realize that Santa wasn't real. I felt like I was a fool, that my parents and older brother were just tricking me and treating me like I was stupid for still thinking that there was a Santa. I was genuinely hurt that they kept the stories and lies going. Years later, I found a letter I wrote to Santa, and it re-awoke my anger. I can't do that to my child, lie to them, trick them for the sake of going to bed early. To tell them that an illogical man, they've never met, will sneak into their home, where they find comfort, and give them goodies based on a behaviors, something subjective like whether a stranger thinks they are "good" or "bad". And, when you think about it, Santa must love rich kids more than poor kids, no matter how "good" poor kids behave in a year. It's insulting to the intelligence of a child. 

[Wesley]

You can tell your child that it is a fun story that people like to participate in every year. To me that preserves the fun without lying to the child.

[Rayne]

I remember what it was like to realize that Santa wasn't real. I felt like I was a fool, that my parents and older brother were just tricking me and treating me like I was stupid for still thinking that there was a Santa. I was genuinely hurt that they kept the stories and lies going. Years later, I found a letter I wrote to Santa, and it re-awoke my anger.

 

I'm so sorry you had that experience.  You sound like a very caring parent and I'm sure your daughter will not have that experience whether you tell her about Santa or not. 

[FreedomFanBoy]

I'm so sorry you had that experience.  You sound like a very caring parent and I'm sure your daughter will not have that experience whether you tell her about Santa or not. 

Thank you very much! That's really nice to hear. 

[Mlisaj]

Refreshing this thread because I want to see if anyone else has more thoughts on Santa. I like what I've seen shared here. My daughter is 2 and I know I can't out-and-out lie to her about it. I kind of like the idea of just telling her some people believe and some people don't and letting her decide if she wants to believe. 

 

I didn't think I'd have to worry so early, but her verbal skills are really taking off. A friend's child, not even 3, asked her mom why she put a toy in the "Toys for Tots" bin. She asked, "Mom, why do we need to donate toys when Santa brings toys for all children?" Her mom proceeded to make up something about how sometimes Santa loses addresses. Then she asks, "How do we know Santa won't lose my address?" What a smart girl! I simply don't have it in me to lie to my child like she did hers (no judgement).

[ribuck]

My daughter is 2 and I know I can't out-and-out lie to her about it. I kind of like the idea of just telling her some people believe and some people don't and letting her decide if she wants to believe ... I didn't think I'd have to worry so early

 

You don't have to worry!

 

Obviously you shouldn't lie to your daughter, but it's not lying to say that "some people believe and some don't".

 

At some point she may ask whether you believe in Santa. This can be a great opener into a discussion about evidence-based belief ("Well, I've never seen Santa, but if I saw reindeer pulling a sled through the sky I might need to change my mind"), or about society ("Do you count the people we see in shopping malls dressed up in red clothes with stick-on beards?").

[Therapy Cat Studios]

I brought this topic up in the presence of some family members who DO lie to their children about santa & the easter bunny.  Boy, was that a mistake...