Moral Responsibility?

[ThoseWhoStayUofM]

I have a question regarding moral responsibility and whether it exists.  First of all, I want to define what Moral Responsibility is.  There are two points of contention.  The first is something the hard determinist would find fault in; i.e. the part about responsibility.  The determinist says that all human action was determined by prior events and the laws of nature such that the individual had no choice, and could not have acted alternatively.  I have no problem rejecting this view.  Suppose a car is dangling off the edge of a cliff linked to a tree by a metal chain.  What the determinist is suggesting is that you can not point to an individual link of the chain and say that it is responsible for the car not falling.  I would agree that there may be other responsible agents however each link still holds responsibility.  My contention is with the "moral" aspect of moral responsibility.  This means to judge a person's actions on their moral rightness and wrongness.

Here Stefan gives us one answer and some pretty clear reasoning why @ 23:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW1rDRMl1KM&feature=player_embedded#t=1435

Stefan seems to be saying that moralistic evaluations are wrong because it's lacking understanding of why a person did what they did (lacking knowledge of prior deterministic events).  However, I've also heard Stefan say things such as this, by Ayn Rand:

 

 

Nothing can corrupt and disintegrate a culture or a man’s character as thoroughly as does the precept of moral agnosticism, the idea that one must never pass moral judgment on others, that one must be morally tolerant of anything, that the good consists of never distinguishing good from evil.

It is obvious who profits and who loses by such a precept. It is not justice or equal treatment that you grant to men when you abstain equally from praising men’s virtues and from condemning men’s vices. When your impartial attitude declares, in effect, that neither the good nor the evil may expect anything from you—whom do you betray and whom do you encourage?

To be quite honest, I think Ayn Rand is just flat out wrong here.  She creates a red herring in this argument by saying that rejecting moral judgement of others is equivalent to tolerance.  There is a huge difference.  When a man murders somebody, instead of moralistically judging the man as a murderer, I would try to answer why he murdered rather than merely labeling him as a murder.  By doing so, you are eliminating the possibility that lurking variables could have led him to this behavior.  Of course, I don't deny that he murdered.  I merely question whether our judgement of the person who performed the act can ever be justified.

[Guest darkskyabove]

You say you will define what "Moral Responsibility" is. Then you "claim" there are two points of contention; but, you only provide one contention, and you never, actually, define "moral responsibility".

 

So, a car dangling on the edge of a cliff is not a "red herring". Come on. You are now guilty of attributing to those you disagree with the same methods that you have used.

 

As to dissecting Rand. Good luck. First, you need to remain within context. It is not acceptable to re-frame her statements in a light that justifies your disagreement. That makes you look like a high-school philosophy hobbyist. Second, you are not entitled to re-define a term to suit your own purpose. Either use terms in the accepted way, or, provide a specific definition of your use of a term. This applies, especially, to your moving of the goal-post on what is meant by murder.

 

As much as I can applaud your attempt, you have failed to provide anything other than an evocative response to an issue that has been dredged for centuries.

 

By the way, I never did find a "question" in your post, though I found a few "assertions".

 

Please try again.

[Phuein]

I really relate to the Ayn Rand quote, there. I've seen too many people follow the path of moral agnosticism, thinking that they are neither liable nor affected. It's a sad and disgusting perspective to have on life.

 

It's also dishonest, as all people do judge, but very few will be outspoken and brave enough to act on their honest moral opinion.