Freshly dumped by an MD in West Texas because of religion, did I approach the topic the wrong way?

[kevinchasec]

Forgive me if I am not doing this correctly, but I wanted to get some thoughts about my recent relationship with a Christian MD (resident) that I worked with in the pediatric ICU in one of the hospitals in my city in West Texas.  I know how Stef would feel about my pitiful attempt at connecting with a person whom I know the relationship wouldn't work with, but I tried anyway.

 

We immediately had a shared physical attraction (which I find is very important) but after talking with her for a while I could immediately tell that she was a similarly-minded person (at least in caring, compassion, understanding, listening).  She is very intelligent (hence the MD) and we had plenty to talk about because we are both clinicians. We hit it off immediately.  We talked about very basic things initially but I soon came to discover that she came from a very religious background (both parents are overseas missionaries).  I of course, against my better judgement, decided to see where it would go, so I kept on talking.  She asked what church I go to... to which I replied "I don't go to church".  She replied "oh well that's okay, a lot of people prefer to not associate with a specific group.  The reason I ask is that I was wondering if you'd like to go to a bible study with me some time."   At this point I had to let the cat out of the bag.  I looked her in the eyes: "I am an atheist", and watched the life drain from her face.  She was deeply disturbed by this, and barraged me with language that made me feel her deep pity for me, but seemed to accomplish it by being non-abrasive.  She is a very stubborn yet kind person, so we were able to just avoid conversations regarding this topic from then (3 weeks ago) until tonight.  Tonight I went over to her place for dinner, since her schedule didn't allow us to meet much this month.  We ate dinner and everything seemed fine.  We watched an episode of MadMen and had some good laughs.  At the end of the episode she said she had some reading to do for school.  I had my tablet with me so I obliged, and two hours later she returned with the "We need to talk", and so we ended up having our final god chat and breaking up.  After watching Stef's latest discussion with Peter Boghossian, I decided to approach the discussion in this manner:

I reach objective conclusions based on objective analysis.  Religion reaches objective conclusions based on subjective analysis.

I also brought up that she doesn't live in my world, but that I do live in her world.

 

I think I somewhat struck a chord with these statements, but the stubbornness was there to blockade her thought, and she had already made up her mind.  She absolutely doesn't seem like she was ever physically abused, however I do think that she was psychologically tormented by the ever present fear of hell fire for eternity.

 

I always try to be open to criticisms of inconsistencies and faulty logic, and make concerted efforts to live my life in a way that lets my actions speak louder than words.  In the case of this woman, she watched as I saved the lives of 3 children in our pediatric ICU, yet it amazes me that my actions have NOT spoken louder than words, and that although I have gone out of my way to help her in her daily life, explained to her that I value truth above all things, I am still seen as going to hell... and the most upsetting part is that this is all coming from a physician.  The person I thought would be able to reason more than any others that I had previously spoken with here in West Texas.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Here's some very basic information about me:

1) I recently moved to Texas from Kansas, so have lived in the bible belt my whole life, but have moved to probably one of the most religious places in the entire United States.

2) I am a type 1 diabetic (pancreas no longer produces insulin)

3) I am a pediatric respiratory therapist

4) For about 6 years now I have had no contact with a woman on a physical level until this brief relationship

5) I work 12 hour night shifts

6) I am a very outgoing philanthropist, helping people on my days on and on my days off.

7) I am 29 years old (my dick hasn't been destroyed by the diabetes yet)

 

I am a year-long follower of the show and have used it immensely to get across my view regarding religion.  I feel like I tried my best to make it work, but my fear is that West Texas is absolutely the worst possible place I could be, and that I have more or less shut myself away from any kind of meaningful relationship that has a mutual understanding of what can and cannot be considered logical or reasonable.

 

I know this whole thing seems very jumbled up, but I was just wondering if anyone thinks that I could have approached the relationship or conversations differently.  Should I move elsewhere?  (Some places are less insane/less religious/less statist than others)

 

 

Thank you so much for bearing with my communication skills, I know that they could use some work.  

I'm desperately trying to avoid depression, but it feels like I'm inevitably headed in that direction

[gwho]

I just wanted to post that I feel for you. Sympathies.

[Josh F]

Count your blessings, no pun intended.  I think it was really wise and honest of both of you to discuss the topic.  I am an atheist and my girlfriend is religious.  We also discussed it early on, and she said she could respect my position.  She asked if I could respect her's, I said no, but that I could respect her ass person, always.

 

Now, I am in a similar situation, perhaps even more dire.  I live in Central America.  It was God's country before there was the bible belt.  My girl is a Christian, unaffiliated, who has attended church only once in the last year.  This is probably as close to an atheist as I am going to find here. She is hilariously critical of the Church and certain more fringe religions like Mormons or people who see the mother mary inside a tortilla. 

 

Anyways, you dodged a bullet.  If she is inviting you to study the Bible she is part of a minority of extremely religious people.  The vast majority, even in Texas, probably don't even attend church regularly.  I think you'll find that if being an atheist isn't a requirement for you to like someone, there are plenty of half ass fake Christians.  Their belief structure works like this "I believe there is a magic happy angel flying around guiding my life and he is made of happy love sauce."  They believe "things happen for a reason" and "someone is looking out for me" and for the most part those aren't particularly dangerous.  This woman thinks the word of god is the bible and that the bible is this guide book to be consulted daily.  The other type hasn't even read the Bible and their knowledge hardly extends beyond cartoons of baby Jesus or Noah.  I couldn't stand being with someone who actually attended church regularly, or who couldnt laugh a little when i made fun of other religious people. 

[NeoEclectic]

It sounds like to me that you're just lonely and clinging on to the idea of fostering a relationship with this woman. I don't think it has much to do with religious beliefs as much as it is about being lonely.

 

I lived in Texas for a huge portion of my life and my experience has been that-as a whole-it's a very religious state. That didn't stop me from having girlfriends though. You're just smitten with this particular female and finding it difficult to let go. Somehow you're equating rejection to meaning a difference in religious opinion.

 

It seems to me that you need to be more social and meet more people. That one woman is not an aboslute representative of the Texas belief system. There are plenty of women there that won't hold your religious beliefs against you and use it as a basis of determining the potential status of a relationship. You just happened to run into a very devout and irrational one.

 

Edit: I want to point out that my mother is a devout Christian and my father is an ardent atheist. Yeah, it does work. You just have to meet the right one.

[Think Free]

Well, there's a lot that can be said here, but as a theist who's parents were also both overseas missionaries, three thoughts stand out to me. First, it may be as NeoEclectic said and it simply wasn't working out for her, but from the situation as you've described it, another possibility is that she was beginning to feel a pressure and/or temptation to have extramarital sex (fornicate) with you and, that being a sin, decided she had to break it off. In her mind, that issue would be directly related to you being an atheist. (If you've already been having sex, then ignore this theory.) Second, I am not sure that it was your approach that was the problem, but here's a tip from me. If you're trying to dissuade someone from a perspective, you want to appear open-minded, and you want the person to feel that their position is well understood by you. Telling someone what they believe, eg. saying, "Religion reaches objective conclusions based on subjective analysis," usually undermines both these goals, unless you hit on something that is both true and consciously understood by them. How would you feel if I told you that, "Atheists just don't want to believe in God because they want to sin without consequences?" A semi-socratic approach where you question her about her beliefs might be more effective. Please understand that I am not suggesting that you go back to the issue at this point--I am just giving you tips for future reference. If she's as smart and sensible as she seems to be, she probably understands that letting someone you're attracted to persuade you of something is not the best way to make a dispassionate rational decision (especially if there's an added temptation of possible sex), and since hellfire is on the line in her mind, she would be wise not to pursue the issue with you at this point.

 

Third, once things have cooled down a little bit, you might consider going to her Bible study a few times. There are a few reasons why you might want to do this: If she is intelligent and similar-minded, you might find other intelligent and similar-minded people there, and if NeoEclectic's theory is correct, you need a wider social circle; if she felt the force of your arguments, there might be others (perhaps single women) there that would feel them even stronger; if you are upfront about being an atheist and make it clear that you don't want to be "evangelized" but are open to civilized rational discussion, if you are patient, polite, humble, and socratic (as described above) they may greatly benefit from your involvement, and you from theirs. Even if you can't convert them to atheism, you may be able to convert them to libertarianism and non-aggression. I would only do this if 1) she's comfortable with it, and 2) you're clear in your mind that you're not attending for her. The possible benefits of visiting are many, but probably the worst thing that could happen is a few uncomfortable hours.

[NeoEclectic]

I disagree with the recommendation of attending one of her Bible study sessions. It may send a false impression of his intentions, and to show up saying I have no interest in your ways is the same as saying I came here to pick a fight. That will drive a bigger wedge between he and his co-worker that very well may have negative impacts on their professional arrangement. Also, that's the same as befriending your ex girlfriend's friends at an attempt to get back at her.

 

It's not anyone's duty or job to convince others that their religious beliefs are wrong and that they need to convert. She showed him that respect by not trying to convert him, or force her ideology onto him. She simply just ended the potential relationship because she probably had a similar thought.

 

If things develop naturally through the course of friendship that's one thing. But going out of your way to convert is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

I think it's just best to walk away from the idea of trying to develop a relationship beyond the professional and friendly. Go and do your own thing that doesn't necessarily involve her and develop your own social circles.