Rob_Ilir Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Hello Norwegian, and welcome to the board. Sorry to hear about living with a single father on the move constantly, when you needed the most attention from both parents.What struck me the most by your story was the breakfast episode, and how you hated asking for things.Where you asked for your preferences before that? As it sounds like negligence with malnourishment. Are your preferences respected by your friends/relatives/people you spend time with today?
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 Hello Norwegian, and welcome to the board. Sorry to hear about living with a single father on the move constantly, when you needed the most attention from both parents.What struck me the most by your story was the breakfast episode, and how you hated asking for things.Where you asked for your preferences before that? As it sounds like negligence with malnourishment. Are your preferences respected by your friends/relatives/people you spend time with today? Yeah, I don't understand it myself completely either. I doubt I was ever malnourished, I was very skinny though. I remember packing on fat very quickly after moving in with my mother. I don't think I was ever asked for preferences, and I never asked myself either. I was always very passive, just going with whatever. I always agreed to everything, and I never vocalized any disdain. I don't really know why that is either. I've definitively become more assertive after I started trying to expand intellectually and after I learned that I should live for myself and my happiness first. Thank you for the response.
Wesley Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I am so sorry your father hit you repeatedly. Not only that but he would apologize and then do it again? The massive betrayal of trust that must have been. It would be like me smacking you and then saying sorry and I hoped you forgave me, and then smacking you again and then saying sorry and I hoped you forgave me, and then smacking you again. I wonder how many times that needs to happen before I would lose all trust in the apology? For me, if it wasn't the first then it would be the second time he hit me. Apologies carry the idea that you would never do it again or else the apology is meaningless. The moving around, the random women being introduced into the family must have been terrible and confusing. Then the woman slammed your hand on the dishwasher to be choked by your dad? Why did he allow you to be exposed to someone like that? Then in order to avoid such a hectic life you tried to move in with your mother who didn't even interact with you and was alcoholic? My god that must've been emotional starvation. Of course that environment is going to breed depression from the lack of emotional contact. It sounds terribly lonely even though your mother was "there". The depression signs were calls to her for help, and instead she did nothing. That left you trying to self-medicate and lead to your problems getting worse. I am so sorry that this happened. I could have guessed that without emotional connection with your parents you would have not been able to make friends or romantic relationships. It would be a foreign concept to you. This actually sounds incredibly terrible and abusive. I am so sorry that you had these experiences. I would not wish them on my enemy. I don't think I was ever asked for preferences, and I never asked myself either. I was always very passive, just going with whatever. I always agreed to everything, and I never vocalized any disdain. I don't really know why that is either. Babies ask for their needs to be satisfied without concern for others. At some point between infancy and passivity, your desire was abused out of you. I had a similar experience and it is very difficult to learn to express needs and desires. I am sorry you experienced this.
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 I am so sorry your father hit you repeatedly. Not only that but he would apologize and then do it again? The massive betrayal of trust that must have been. It would be like me smacking you and then saying sorry and I hoped you forgave me, and then smacking you again and then saying sorry and I hoped you forgave me, and then smacking you again. I wonder how many times that needs to happen before I would lose all trust in the apology? For me, if it wasn't the first then it would be the second time he hit me. Apologies carry the idea that you would never do it again or else the apology is meaningless. The moving around, the random women being introduced into the family must have been terrible and confusing. Then the woman slammed your hand on the dishwasher to be choked by your dad? Why did he allow you to be exposed to someone like that? Then in order to avoid such a hectic life you tried to move in with your mother who didn't even interact with you and was alcoholic? My god that must've been emotional starvation. Of course that environment is going to breed depression from the lack of emotional contact. It sounds terribly lonely even though your mother was "there". The depression signs were calls to her for help, and instead she did nothing. That left you trying to self-medicate and lead to your problems getting worse. I am so sorry that this happened. I could have guessed that without emotional connection with your parents you would have not been able to make friends or romantic relationships. It would be a foreign concept to you. This actually sounds incredibly terrible and abusive. I am so sorry that you had these experiences. I would not wish them on my enemy. Babies ask for their needs to be satisfied without concern for others. At some point between infancy and passivity, your desire was abused out of you. I had a similar experience and it is very difficult to learn to express needs and desires. I am sorry you experienced this. Thank you so much. You write like Stefan speaks. When you say it like that I have a really hard time figuring out how he and all the other people who spank their children justify it in their minds. I don't think I felt it as a betrayal at the time though, more like a lapse in judgement. I realize that that sounds like something a victim of domestic violence would say though. My mother did interact with me, but on the level of an acquaintance. She was affectionate and loving to a point, but never in a deep way, if that makes sense? I do feel somewhat lucky that these experiences have put me on a path to self improvement and examination. We all suffer difficulties in our lives, and I'll be better equipped to deal with that if I can manage to "fix" the holes in my development. If I ever have children, I'll take the lessons I've learned from people like you and Stefan. Imagine the person his daughter is going to become. If we all treated our children like that the world would vastly improve. It would start chains of rationality and morality instead of the terrible things which are fully accepted in today's society. I will never drink a lot because of my mother, and in the same way I'll never hit my child or abandon my child or teach one thing and do another or any of that shit. Of course, to get to that point I'll need to learn how to develop deep relationships and friendships. Thank you.
Wesley Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Thank you so much. You write like Stefan speaks. When you say it like that I have a really hard time figuring out how he and all the other people who spank their children justify it in their minds. I don't think I felt it as a betrayal at the time though, more like a lapse in judgement. I realize that that sounds like something a victim of domestic violence would say though. My mother did interact with me, but on the level of an acquaintance. She was affectionate and loving to a point, but never in a deep way, if that makes sense? I do feel somewhat lucky that these experiences have put me on a path to self improvement and examination. We all suffer difficulties in our lives, and I'll be better equipped to deal with that if I can manage to "fix" the holes in my development. If I ever have children, I'll take the lessons I've learned from people like you and Stefan. Imagine the person his daughter is going to become. If we all treated our children like that the world would vastly improve. It would start chains of rationality and morality instead of the terrible things which are fully accepted in today's society. I will never drink a lot because of my mother, and in the same way I'll never hit my child or abandon my child or teach one thing and do another or any of that shit. Of course, to get to that point I'll need to learn how to develop deep relationships and friendships. Thank you. I appreciate the thanks, however I am a little confused by what you said. You say that the abuse inflicted on you was good because it made you stronger, but that you hope that your children (and Stef's child) will not experience the abuse and will be stronger than people who are abused. It seems to be a bit of a contradiction to me. For me, if I hadn't been abused I would know how to properly handle conflicts and be a healthy person. I would have challenges, but they would not be as large as I am currently facing. To me, I feel like a piece of glass that has been broken. I can try to put the pieces together, but I will never be as strong as if I had never been broken and I will always have weak points that are not very solid. Abuse is destructive. If you learned lessons, it was despite your abuse rather than because of your abuse. At least that is how I see it. Maybe I misunderstood what you said and I would be happy to be corrected.
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 I appreciate the thanks, however I am a little confused by what you said. You say that the abuse inflicted on you was good because it made you stronger, but that you hope that your children (and Stef's child) will not experience the abuse and will be stronger than people who are abused. It seems to be a bit of a contradiction to me. For me, if I hadn't been abused I would know how to properly handle conflicts and be a healthy person. I would have challenges, but they would not be as large as I am currently facing. To me, I feel like a piece of glass that has been broken. I can try to put the pieces together, but I will never be as strong as if I had never been broken and I will always have weak points that are not very solid. Abuse is destructive. If you learned lessons, it was despite your abuse rather than because of your abuse. At least that is how I see it. Maybe I misunderstood what you said and I would be happy to be corrected. I'm not saying the abuse was good, or that it made me stronger. I'm saying that the path it took me on made me more capable of handling future issues. I alone decided to self examine and try to make sense of things that I might not otherwise have known or cared about. If I had not had depression myself I wouldn't have done the research and work that helped me get out of it, and will help me get out of it again, or that will allow me to help others trough the same. It's the same when people who experience racism turn back and fight it, or people who have been battered open shelters. I'm not sure if my thinking is fallacious here, but that's how I see it.
Wesley Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 How does the idea that they abused you and it was negative make you feel?
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 How does the idea that they abused you and it was negative make you feel? Not much of anything honestly. I rarely think about it. I don't like thinking about my childhood, sometimes it makes me feel uncomfortable, like a purely negative nostalgia. I don't feel resentment towards my father. I do feel a bit of resentment against my mother though. Sometimes I wish I could cry and just experience some catharsis.
Wesley Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 How would it make you feel if I told you that in order to improve yourself and gain clarity of your past, you would need to journey down that road and discover what feelings are there?
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 How would it make you feel if I told you that in order to improve yourself and gain clarity of your past, you would need to journey down that road and discover what feelings are there? Well, it doesn't sound comfortable, but I don't oppose the idea. I don't really know how I would do that, I don't really remember a lot of it.
Wesley Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Well, it doesn't sound comfortable, but I don't oppose the idea. I don't really know how I would do that, I don't really remember a lot of it. There are lots of possible options. We can start with the best first. Are you able to afford a therapist? You already remember a lot which could be worked on. As you work you will remember more. If you can't do that, there are many workbooks, books, and lots of journaling you can do in order to help you along your path.
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 There are lots of possible options. We can start with the best first. Are you able to afford a therapist? You already remember a lot which could be worked on. As you work you will remember more. If you can't do that, there are many workbooks, books, and lots of journaling you can do in order to help you along your path. I did go to a therapist (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) for my depression and anxiety until she basically said she couldn't help me anymore. It wasn't that she was bad, I just did a lot of research on my own, and I've always been pretty rational and introspective, so it didn't take long for me to understand what she was talking about. We never did focus on my childhood though. Money isn't an issue in the socialist paradise that is Norway
Wesley Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I did go to a therapist (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) for my depression and anxiety until she basically said she couldn't help me anymore. It wasn't that she was bad, I just did a lot of research on my own, and I've always been pretty rational and introspective, so it didn't take long for me to understand what she was talking about. We never did focus on my childhood though. Money isn't an issue in the socialist paradise that is Norway Ok, then that is great. For starters, I would listen to the podcasts: FDR1927 How to Find a Great Therapist! FDR1716 Freedomain Radio Sunday Show 1 Aug 2010 - How to Find a Great Therapist I also would like to step aside a bit for some people who know more in this area as to what some therapies might be to help you reconnect with your emotions in your childhood experiences especially if the CBT approach didn't seem to be the best for you. Also, I would start journaling as much as you can reasonably make a habit out of. It can be invaluable to the therapy process. Searching the forums for books/workbooks that people recommend can get you started, but finding a good therapist and makinga habit of journaling I would consider to be the most important steps you could take. There's a decent thread starting about self knowledge books going on right now: http://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/37605-first-books-on-self-knowledge/ I will be looking at the thread and obviously you can message me if you have a question that you think I could answer I would be happy to try and help out. Let the self-archeology begin!
I_Am_Norwegian Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 Ok, then that is great. For starters, I would listen to the podcasts: FDR1927 How to Find a Great Therapist! FDR1716 Freedomain Radio Sunday Show 1 Aug 2010 - How to Find a Great Therapist I also would like to step aside a bit for some people who know more in this area as to what some therapies might be to help you reconnect with your emotions in your childhood experiences especially if the CBT approach didn't seem to be the best for you. Also, I would start journaling as much as you can reasonably make a habit out of. It can be invaluable to the therapy process. Searching the forums for books/workbooks that people recommend can get you started, but finding a good therapist and makinga habit of journaling I would consider to be the most important steps you could take. There's a decent thread starting about self knowledge books going on right now: http://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/37605-first-books-on-self-knowledge/ I will be looking at the thread and obviously you can message me if you have a question that you think I could answer I would be happy to try and help out. Let the self-archeology begin! Thank you so much for your responses, I really appreciate it. I will definitively do something sometime. I don't feel like I need therapy again just yet, but I will continue to learn about philosophy and reason and self discovery along with trying to find some ambition or drive so I can move forward with my life.
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