A letter from my mom

[Olle Persson]

Hey all.

 

I need some feedback on a letter I received from my mom.

 

But first some background:

 

I have been taking some time of my family for a few months now and this has been the most difficult for my mom, she has called a few times despite that I have told her that I need to take a break.

 

The reason for the break has been that I need some time off so I can examine my childhood better, I did not feel I got any real support with this search from my family.

 

In short, my childhood has consisted of persistent conflict between my parents, screaming/yelling and all that nonsense. I feel that has really taking its toll on me. I've always been the quiet, don't cause trouble kind of child and in school I was silent and mostly invisible and I remember being really cautions so as not to upset the teachers in any way.

 

In the family, I have never really felt loved or appreciated, my feelings were never really considered, this also applies my time in school. They never asked me about how I felt about the constant conflict, how it affected me.

 

But at least I never got hit by my parents, yay, but I remember being yelled at if I did something wrong, like on one occasion when I was around 8-9 maybe when my dad flew into a rage and threw a toy at me for dropping the remote on the floor.

 

Today I got a letter from my mom.

 

I hope you read this letter before you throw it away.

 

I just want to say that I miss you so damn much. I am upset but if I swallow the crying, I can push away the tears once more.

 

I do not believe I dare to start crying because I do not think I can stop before I break into pieces.

 

Yesterday I read on the internet about your "idol" Stefan Molyneux. What I do not understand is how he could become so important to you. Much more important than we, who love you.

 

Sometimes when I am out walking with the dog and I person on a bicycle passes us, she looks up and wags her tail in the belief that it is you.

 

Do you remember when you were younger, maybe 6-7 years? You told me "mom, when someone is stupid against me at least you're always nice to me"

 

I do not know how to reach you but I have attached an envelope, so write down what you feel and if there is something, I can do for you and mail me.

 

Many hugs to a loved son.

 

/Mom

 

 

At first when I read her letter I felt ashamed of myself and felt the urge to call her, I felt I was responsible for her emotions. I felt guilty.

 

Then I got to thinking, what if she is trying to manipulate me? What if she is trying to make me feel as the bad guy in order to get me to contact her.

 

This thought really upsets me, why would she do this, to shame me back into contact with her.

 

The feeling of shame has turned into anger and although I feel a lot better now I feel I need some external insights here.

 

I am interpreting the letter the right way?

 

Please share me your thoughts.

[Kevin Beal]

I'm really sorry you have to deal with all this.

 

I'm not sure what to make of the letter and don't know you or her, but something that bothers me about it is in how she emphasizes just how much pain your actions are causing her. She says you can tell her how you feel, but that seems secondary to the fact that this is torture for her. The letter seems to be about her and her feelings and not so much about you and yours. The message seems to be that you are hurting her with your decision to take space, and that you should stop regardless of whether or not the space is helpful to you.

 

Maybe that's my own bias or baggage, but it does bother me.

 

Since you say that you often tried to manage the adults' feelings as a child, I would not be too surprised if that is your trigger here, for why you would first feel shame and want to call her. And if she was playing that angle (if only unconsciously) in order to get you to stop taking space, then that's all the more reason to maintain that space and block her emails (you can always un-block later if you decide to).

 

Are you seeing a therapist? This stuff is (I would say) impossible to be objective about without feedback from someone who you can trust and is knowledgeable of your past. I don't think there is any real substitute for a trained professional therapist, but something is better than nothing.

 

I don't believe that her responses will ever not affect you. Did you feel you had to manage your mother's feelings as a child? If so, then you are likely to be very susceptible to that kind of manipulation. And it would suggest that she played into that when you were a child, and is therefore familiar with it at least unconsciously.

 

From the outside, it sounds like good reason to keep that space.

 

Hopefully this is helpful. Take care.

[Ruben Zandstra]

That's a pretty awful letter Olle, I'm sorry this is what you are getting.

 

Below is my interpretation of the different lines.

I noticed how It's not a particularly coherent letter: it seems to be comprised of a set of loose stabs, meant to manipulate you into compliance from a lot of different angles.

 

Like Kevin, I think that talking to a counselor/ therapist would be kind of essential while going through this kind of thing.

Anyway, I hope this is of some help: 

 

 

 

I hope you read this letter before you throw it away.

 

You are throwing me away.

 

I just want to say that I miss you so damn much. I am upset but if I swallow the crying, I can push away the tears once more.

 

I damn you for making me feel like this. But I can abuse myself into abusing you just a bit more.

 

I do not believe I dare to start crying because I do not think I can stop before I break into pieces.

 

I am so delicate, look how you are breaking me into pieces.

 

Yesterday I read on the internet about your "idol" Stefan Molyneux. What I do not understand is how he could become so important to you. Much more important than we, who love you.

 

You idol does not love you. Whatever it is that you credit him for, you owe us that credit.

 

Sometimes when I am out walking with the dog and I person on a bicycle passes us, she looks up and wags her tail in the belief that it is you.

 

I know you love the dog. Be assured that it is mine, and be assured that it is suffering like me. 

 

Do you remember when you were younger, maybe 6-7 years? You told me "mom, when someone is stupid against me at least you're always nice to me"

 

I prefered you when you were six, and you would tell me how, being your Mom, I would be nice to you after having exposed you to people who weren't .

 

I do not know how to reach you but I have attached an envelope, so write down what you feel and if there is something, I can do for you and mail me.

 

Seeing that you lack the spine to get your own stamped envelopes, here's one. I'm not going to give you what you need, I never did, I will not do it now. But I sure will give you everything you need in order for you to give to ME what I need.

[Olle Persson]

Thanks for the input I really appreciate it. 

I'm seeing more of a counselor at the university I'm studying at who seem to more of the "lets not delve in the past" kind, but I'll be sure to bring this up next time. But as you say probably be better of seeing a professional therapist.

 

But back to your question if I felt I had to manage my mothers feelings, I'm not sure, but what I'm sure of is that she can't manage her own feelings or at least she don't seem to know why she acts the way she acts.

 

When I think about past events, If she don't get her way she can become "childishly" stubborn, but I don't remember how I used to deal with that as a child

 

For me, I was initially terrified when I read the letter so I mean she has a powerful grip of me.

 

That's a pretty awful letter Olle, I'm sorry this is what you are getting.

 

Below is my interpretation of the different lines.

I noticed how It's not a particularly coherent letter: it seems to be comprised of a set of loose stabs, meant to manipulate you into compliance from a lot of different angles.

 

Wow, do you really belive this is what she is saying? This is such chilling stuff I'm shaking right now so I feel you maybe hit a spot here.

 

I don't understand how she can be so manipulating, she is turning my feelings against myself that's just so wrong, she is not in it for helping me in any way, this is really about her. I really can't get my head around this.

[Kevin Beal]

I don't believe your mother is consciously thinking "how can I manipulate Olle into stopping taking space?"

 

I would imagine that this is very much unconscious for your mother. She did say it for a reason though, and I think you are the going to be able to understand that on a level that nobody else will.

 

If it were a letter from my own mother, then I would absolutely conclude that it was manipulation.

 

Have you heard this podcast?

 

Mommy's Letter:

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_692_Mommys_Letter.mp3

[vlbk]

Comment removed.

[Ahren]

Hey all.

 

I need some feedback on a letter I received from my mom.

 

But first some background:

 

I have been taking some time of my family for a few months now and this has been the most difficult for my mom, she has called a few times despite that I have told her that I need to take a break.

 

The reason for the break has been that I need some time off so I can examine my childhood better, I did not feel I got any real support with this search from my family.

 

In short, my childhood has consisted of persistent conflict between my parents, screaming/yelling and all that nonsense. I feel that has really taking its toll on me. I've always been the quiet, don't cause trouble kind of child and in school I was silent and mostly invisible and I remember being really cautions so as not to upset the teachers in any way.

 

In the family, I have never really felt loved or appreciated, my feelings were never really considered, this also applies my time in school. They never asked me about how I felt about the constant conflict, how it affected me.

 

But at least I never got hit by my parents, yay, but I remember being yelled at if I did something wrong, like on one occasion when I was around 8-9 maybe when my dad flew into a rage and threw a toy at me for dropping the remote on the floor.

 

Today I got a letter from my mom.

 

I hope you read this letter before you throw it away.

 

I just want to say that I miss you so damn much. I am upset but if I swallow the crying, I can push away the tears once more.

 

I do not believe I dare to start crying because I do not think I can stop before I break into pieces.

 

Yesterday I read on the internet about your "idol" Stefan Molyneux. What I do not understand is how he could become so important to you. Much more important than we, who love you.

 

Sometimes when I am out walking with the dog and I person on a bicycle passes us, she looks up and wags her tail in the belief that it is you.

 

Do you remember when you were younger, maybe 6-7 years? You told me "mom, when someone is stupid against me at least you're always nice to me"

 

I do not know how to reach you but I have attached an envelope, so write down what you feel and if there is something, I can do for you and mail me.

 

Many hugs to a loved son.

 

/Mom

 

 

At first when I read her letter I felt ashamed of myself and felt the urge to call her, I felt I was responsible for her emotions. I felt guilty.

 

Then I got to thinking, what if she is trying to manipulate me? What if she is trying to make me feel as the bad guy in order to get me to contact her.

 

This thought really upsets me, why would she do this, to shame me back into contact with her.

 

The feeling of shame has turned into anger and although I feel a lot better now I feel I need some external insights here.

 

I am interpreting the letter the right way?

 

Please share me your thoughts.

 

My thoughts are that she is hurt and using your empathy against you. She calls Stephan your "idol" which is a pejorative. There is much that unlies this use of terminology. First she knows that this is important to you but does not trust your judgement in choosing who to listen to or learn from. She does not care that this is important to you because she puts what you are learning about down. She is not interested in what you are learning about and instead of asking questions to know what you are going through just dismisses it as an "idol".

[Alan C.]

She calls Stephan your "idol" which is a pejorative.

 

I was going to point that out but you beat me to it.

 

It's meant to belittle both Stef (as a smug dismissal) and Olle Persson (by insinuating naivete and credulity).

[LibFedDemRepCon]

Dem feels. 

 

Dude your mom loves you. I don't think there is any manipulation in play here. She genuinely loves you and wants to listen to you and understand you. The last lines show this so clearly

 

 

"I do not know how to reach you but I have attached an envelope, so write down what you feel and if there is something, I can do for you and mail me.

 

Many hugs to a loved son."

 

Your parents aren't perfect. I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. Hell, no one is perfect. We all make mistakes and unintentionally offend and hurt people sometimes. 

 

The important thing here is that your Mom wants to be better, she wants to listen to you, to understand you. It sounds like you feel like you never felt supported or listened to when you were growing up. Maybe your parents didn't realise you felt like this? What if this failure to do this things wasn't an attempt by them to slight you but instead something that they were totally unaware of? Perhaps in the midst of work, parenting and the madness of modern life they just couldn't see what they were doing wrong? perhaps you were in their blind spot?

 

Your situation is like in almost every romantic comedy where the guy makes a mistake and the girl refuses to answer his calls and won't listen to his explanation of why he messed up and how he loves her and wants to make things better. And your hearts going out for the poor guy because he's trying so hard to get her to listen but she's just ignoring him and if she would just give him a chance to explain himself they could be happier and the misunderstanding would be reduced.

 

Your Mom is that guy. Please give her a chance even by simply writing back and telling her how you feel about everything. 

 

It's okay for people to disagree about stuff, it's okay for people to make mistakes and when someone is really trying to reconcile a relationship that is a great opportunity. 

 

EDIT:

 

My post has negative votes but I do not believe that that necessarily means that I'm wrong.

 

The majority of people 1000 years ago thought that the World was flat? They weren't right.

The Ancient Greeks thought dice were decided by the Gods rather than pure chance? They weren't right and science and mathematics proved them wrong.

 

The majority can easily be as wrong as the minority and I hope that you take that into consideration when you weight the value of each post. Cheers.

[LanceD]

I'm sorry that your mother is so self centered that instead of writing to you and trying to improve the situation she instead comes at you trying to guilt you into giving her what she wants. The letter shows zero interest in how you are thinking or feeling and only shows an intent to guilt you into acting in a manner that will make her feel better. She obviously expects to have a relationship with you where she holds the power, similar to when you were a very young child and had no choice but to "love" her. The latter makes her appear to only want to improve the relationship you in a manner that suits her, namely you giving up on anything that could separate you two and returning to "those that love you". Lastly the fact that she won't directly state that she loves you weirds me out and just makes me think something even more serious is wrong here.

 

I don't think it's necessary to further point out all the issues I have with your mother's letter so instead I will try and give you advice that helped me deal with a remarkably similar issue. Taking time to be away from the situation is very useful, so continue it! Living your own life and gaining more self knowledge, as well as taking time to process your issues with the aid of a therapist should be extremely helpful. Once I had time apart from my mother and enough time to realize and understand the trauma and issues I had experienced I gained a much better vantage point from which to view my mother's behavior. This really helped me better understand both myself and the relationship and see exactly how unhealthy for me it really was! So I think with time apart and a better perspective you yourself will have a much easier time judging situations like this and managing a potential repairing of the relationship with your mother, or the very real possibility that you may need to cut them out entirely. 

 

I wish you much luck in this endeavor and my deepest apologies that you have to go through this. Hopefully I am wrong about your mother and that with a little bit more time she will write you again and this time show an actual interest in her son and how he feels, but until then I would stay away.

[Olle Persson]

Thank you for all your kind and thoughtful comments, believe me, it really helps. I'm going to maintain the distance for the time being and I'm looking into the possibility of seeking a professional therapist.

[Mike Fleming]

I started to read your mother's letter but then couldn't do it.  It's so reminiscent of the kind of letters I received from my mother, which I now just completely ignore.

 

It's not fair what they do in my view.  It's just emotional blackmail.  All the times I have asked my mother to change her bad behaviour and basically got nothing.  Just ignoring it.  when we are in person she pretended she didn't hear me and stared off into the distance while I was looking at her until I gave up.  Then there were the times where I would "take a break" from the family.  Upon, my "return", they were on the best behaviour initially.  Then once they got comfortable again it was back to the same old bad behaviour.  

 

All of the above was incredibly taxing on me emotionally until I finally had to face facts.  They weren't going to change.  The abuse was never going to end.  

 

I've said it before in here but I'll repeat it.  The day I finally knew I'd had enough was the day I just imagined to myself that I'd heard that they'd died in a car crash.  I really tried to imagine it had actually happened, put myself in the moment and ask myself how I felt.  I realised I didn't care at all. I was relieved they were gone.   In fact, I imagined life without them around and it felt like bliss.  It felt like freedom.  And that was it.  They weren't my parents any more in any meaningful way.  In fact they never had been.  I had always been just their pet.  

[ccuthbert]

This whole thread makes me feel sad, for you, your mom and everybody who had such strong emotions to THE LETTER. Olle, I hope your mom is sincere in her love for you. You know better than we do if that's so. If it is, try to be patient with her as you figure out what you want your family relationships to become. It's very hard to change family relationships. We tend to fall back into the same ol' habits of thought. Once you know what you want, stand firm, but try to understand that your parents are very unlikely to change much. You're going to have to work around that.

 

Best of luck.

[Hugh Akston]

I agree with LIBFED. Don't let someone else's mommy issues become yours because they seem so smart and convincing. As he said himself 'enjoy the smart, beware the convincing'.

[Kevin Beal]

I just wanted to add, that as far as whether or not to call her up and engage her goes versus maintaining your space, it doesn't really matter what her intentions were with the letter.

 

The point of taking space (as you mentioned) is to have a more objective view of your childhood without the biased influence of your family. Your mother should respect that, and if she doesn't and is instead upset by it, that's not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to yourself.

 

You have done nothing wrong in taking space. You do not owe her peace of mind.

[Zava]

First, Internet hugs. I can sympathize with what you are going through. I’m glad you’re in therapy and I hope you can find a better therapist if you can’t examine your past with the current one.

 

Rubin really analyzed the letter well too in my humble opinion! Seriously, bravo on that. Very intelligent.

 

“Sometimes when I am out walking with the dog and I person on a bicycle passes us, she looks up and wags her tail in the belief that it is you.”

This statement is really wretched. She calls Stef an idol yet doesn’t examine why that is at all and why she thinks that’s the case. She puts no questions to you. Nothing. It’s really insulting toward you and your judgment, something she had a hand in crafting. Instead, she recruits your dog (which is probably a cute dog, well because most dogs are cute and loveable) just so she can tug at your emotions. Sickeningly manipulative.  

 

She makes zero effort to understand her own son. It’s all about her and her feelings.  I’m glad you resisted the guilt manipulation. I hope she will snap out of her selfishness and communicate in a more calm manner at some point. I wouldn’t hold my breath though.

[MysterionMuffles]

I started to read your mother's letter but then couldn't do it.  It's so reminiscent of the kind of letters I received from my mother, which I now just completely ignore.

 

It's not fair what they do in my view.  It's just emotional blackmail.  All the times I have asked my mother to change her bad behaviour and basically got nothing.  Just ignoring it.  when we are in person she pretended she didn't hear me and stared off into the distance while I was looking at her until I gave up.  Then there were the times where I would "take a break" from the family.  Upon, my "return", they were on the best behaviour initially.  Then once they got comfortable again it was back to the same old bad behaviour.  

 

All of the above was incredibly taxing on me emotionally until I finally had to face facts.  They weren't going to change.  The abuse was never going to end.  

 

I've said it before in here but I'll repeat it.  The day I finally knew I'd had enough was the day I just imagined to myself that I'd heard that they'd died in a car crash.  I really tried to imagine it had actually happened, put myself in the moment and ask myself how I felt.  I realised I didn't care at all. I was relieved they were gone.   In fact, I imagined life without them around and it felt like bliss.  It felt like freedom.  And that was it.  They weren't my parents any more in any meaningful way.  In fact they never had been.  I had always been just their pet.  

 

Damn that's powerful...only a part of me sort of envies that you got somewhat better treatment upon returns from little breaks from them. Good for you for stepping up and knowing that you had to free yourself. It made me think about how people try to justify their relationships, and how I don't think I could justify mine if most of the time my parents just sit around and play Candy Crush while listening to the TV. Never really connecting with their kids and stuff. My mom at least likes to have conversations with us sometimes, but my dad is and always has been absent in my life, although we share the same physical living space.

 

There's nothing I can add to this thead, everything I would want to say has already been said. Though I do share the glimmer of hope that Lance D has in the idea that maybe your mother will come around and understand empathy, and that she would e-mail you again with more of a genuine approach. But again I doubt it unless she somehow decides to do the self work you have done to get to this point, Olle.