Veterans Day

[schummjm]

Hey guys and gals,

 

Just wondering if anyone got any flack on Veteran's Day for sharing their views?  I shared Stefan's video, "The Ghosts of War" along with an excerpt from it on Facebook today (I shared what he had in his status - see below) and a couple members of my family and a friend (not a true friend to be honest) went nuts on it.  A couple called me an asshole, while another called it "classless, insensitive, and disrespectful".  I understand that an emotional response is typical on a day like that as most who know or are Veterans tend to feel like they fought for freedom.  Just not sure how to actually get through to them what my views are or if it is even appropriate to try.  I'm sure facebook isn't the best medium, but I felt that it was ok for me to share my views as everyone else was on this day.  I made it a point not to attack anyone else's posts as I felt that was just asking for a fight and somewhat disrespectful to that person.  

 

What I shared along with the attached video:

There's this myth that people believe, that the way to honor the deaths of so many millions of soldiers; that the way to honor them is to say that we achieved some tangible, positive, good out of their deaths. We can try and rescue some positive and forward momentum of human progress, of human virtue from these hundreds of millions of deaths - but we can't do it by pretending that they died to set us free, because we are far less free now then we were before these slaughters began. These people did not die to set us free. They did not die fighting any enemy other than the ones that the previous deaths created.

 

What do y'all think?  And how did you handle this if you were attacked as well?

 

Thanks for your input!

[Guest - Josh -]

I recall seeing a video like this one before. I think I prefer it to the most recent version. Both are these are based off the original.

 

Before I posted to Facebook (I have about 50 friends), I deliberated which video to post – although I could not find the first video I mentioned, I did find the original.

 

I ultimately decided that people might make excuses for not watching the video, such as the length (even though they aren’t long). I wanted to get straight to the point, but I also wanted to avoid putting up people’s defenses. I felt that the emotion or the images might turn people off from the message, which they might be more receptive to. Some people prefer the images and the music and the emotion, but I wanted to make sure the message reached everyone.

 

I figured that the words alone, when read silently in people’s own voices/thoughts, will be those that haunt best. I chose what were, in my opinion, the most powerful excerpts. I left out any mention of “paid killers” because I wanted to make sure people read the entire excerpt – and because not everyone who joins the military ends up killing people. I have military friends and family and I wanted to make sure they got the message without taking offense to something they already know could happen.

 

I left Stef’s name at the end of the excerpt, so if people were interested in looking him up, they could.

 

There are quotes online, but I had to listen to the original video to make sure I transcribed everything correctly. If there are errors, my apologies go out to Stef.

 

Here is what I posted:

 

“What is so often said about the solders of the 20th century in particular and the soldiers who are fighting now in the 21st century is that they fought to make us free, which is a wonderful sentiment, and one which should evoke tremendous gratitude if in fact there was a shred of truth in that statement. . . . but it's not true, I mean it's not even close to true; it’s frankly the exact opposite of truth.

And there's this myth that is around that people believe, that the way to honor the deaths of so many of millions of people. . . . that the way to honor this is to say that we achieved some tangible, positive good out of their deaths. That's how we are supposed to honor their deaths.

[. . . .]

We can’t make their deaths ‘good’ of course, but we can try and rescue some positive and forward momentum of human progress in human virtue from these hundreds of millions of deaths, and we don't do it by pretending that they died to set us free, because we are less free – far less free – now then we were before these slaughters began. . . . These people did not die to set us free. They did not die fighting any enemy other than the ones that the previous deaths had created.

[. . . .]

Real respect for the dead lies in exhuming the corpses and hearing what they would say if they could speak now; and they would say, ‘If any ask us why we died, tell it's because our fathers lied, tell it's because we were told that charging up a hill and slaughtering our fellow man was heroic and noble, and honorable.’

[. . . .]

These poor young men and woman propagandized into an undead ethical status, lied to about what is noble, and virtuous, and courageous, and honorable, and decent, and good to the point that they're rolling hand grenades into children's rooms – under the illusion that that is going to make the world a better place. We have to stare this in the face if we want to remember why these people died. They did not die to set us free. They did not die to make the world a better place. They died because we are ruled by sociopaths. . . . The only thing that can create a better world is the truth, is virtue, is the honor and courage of standing up to the genocidal lies of mankind and calling them lies, ultimate corruptions.

[. . . .]

We can throw as many young men and woman as we want into this pit of slaughter; it will never be full. It will never do anything other than sink and recede further into the depths of hell. We can’t build a better world on bodies. We can’t build peace on blood. If we don't look back and see the army of the dead of the 20th century that is calling out for us to see that they died to enslave us, that whenever there was a war the government grew and grew and never went back to its original shape, and that we are still so addicted to this lie, this fantasy, that we honor the dead by adding to their number!

What we need to do is remember that these bodies bury us. This ocean of blood that we create through the fantasy that violence brings virtue drowns us. . . drowns our children, drowns our future, drowns the world – that when we pour these endless young bodies into this pit of death. . . we follow.”

– Stefan Molyneux

 

 

 

All I got as a response so far is 1 like, oddly enough from an old church friend and none from my libertarian colleagues. I'm sure it's hanging around in the back of everyone else's heads though. We'll see.

 

As in your case I would retort with:

 

It is insanely disrespectful to pretend that veterans and the young fighting abroad are serving anything else but short-term state interests. The glorification of their pointless suffering (mental and physical) with flags and ribbons, while pledging whole-hearted support for the unnecessary interventions that harm them, is fundamentally retarded; it insults the intelligence of these victims, while enabling society to accept that there should be more added to their ranks.

[justice seeker]

I am a veteran, got out of the army in 2006, and as i have been waking up over the years, i have told people things ranging from "dont think me, i didnt do anything for you" and "look i really dont like these propaganda holidays" and the feedback i got was mostly stuff along the lines of "yea, but the point is you were willing to sacrifice for something you believed in" which was, whatever, i didnt argue since they were trying to be nice. This past year i posted a meme on facebook that said "i am not proud to be a veteran" and wrote that i felt my little facebook posts did more to bring justice to the world than anything i ever did in the military... that lead to a pretty productive conversation with my brother about the state. It was nice to talk to someone who was willing to have a conversatikn without emotional panic. He actually asked questions and asked me to define terms and stuff lol. He doesnt agree with me and he did talk to me with the intention of trying to change my mind, but at least now he understands me a little bit more.

[fractional slacker]

My thoughts are facebook is tricky. It's a medium that doesn't encourage or support in-depth discussion because the average user is, to put it nicely, deeply submerged in the sewage of propaganda. It's a medium of convenience, brevity, and bravado. Pictures and memes tend to be the most effective means of getting a message across. I think your transcription of Steph's video would make perfect sense if your audience was rational, mature, and open to alternate viewpoints. But those types of people are not so common. Approaching the typical FB audience with a viewpoint that challenges their whole ethical structure takes courage and bravery. Kuduos to you, sir.