The Vitamin Myth: Why We Think We Need Supplements

[fractional slacker]

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/

 

Dr. Dean Edell used to dispell the vitaim myth all the time when he was on the radio. He called it faith based medicine. It was a real eye opener for me. BTW, Edell knew quite a lot about the topic being raised by parents who were highly invested in the holistic medicine not only for personal but also business reasons.In shot the article shows how even a great scientist can be susceptible to confirmational bias. And thus a $23 billion dollar industry, without scientific grounding, was born.

[wdiaz03]

So he was 93 when he died, and this is with the massive quantities of supplements he was allegedly taking. How long do you think he would have lived without them?

[FriendlyHacker]

We have this very interesting documentary available here: The Truth About Vitaminshttp://www.videoneat.com/documentaries/1157/the-truth-about-vitamins-documentary-watch-online/

[fractional slacker]

We have this very interesting documentary available here: The Truth About Vitaminshttp://www.videoneat.com/documentaries/1157/the-truth-about-vitamins-documentary-watch-online/

 

Great vid. Thank you for posting.

[David Twyman]

Just wanted to add some links for Vitamin b12 information, as this is the only vitamin that leading vegan health-gurus such as Dr John Mcdougall say is necessary as a supplement.

 

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm (Official USDA website)

 

http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?12791-Does-a-healthy-body-manufacture-B12

[fractional slacker]

Just wanted to add some links for Vitamin b12 information, as this is the only vitamin that leading vegan health-gurus such as Dr John Mcdougall say is necessary as a supplement.

 

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm (Official USDA website)

 

http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?12791-Does-a-healthy-body-manufacture-B12

I believe you may be responding to the title of article which is somewhat misleading AKA stirring the pot if you will. The two main points of article about supplements are: a. there are no studies that show supplements to be beneficial to those who get sufficient nutrition from food; b. mega doses of supplements do not prevent colds, cancer, or anything in between.

[wdiaz03]

I believe you may be responding to the title of article which is somewhat misleading AKA stirring the pot if you will. The two main points of article about supplements are: a. there are no studies that show supplements to be beneficial to those who get sufficient nutrition from food; b. mega doses of supplements do not prevent colds, cancer, or anything in between.

 

With that said and giving the relative low cost of a "one a day" type supplement, Wouldn't it be harmless (even beneficial ) to take the supplement anyways?

My argument is that given the level of activity of most people today the amount of food that they need is much lower than say if they had to walk miles everyday or chase animals. Given the lower intake of food then the amount of vitaminsminerals might also be lower. Add to that that modern mass-produced food might come from nutrient depleted soil.

You might be able to get all vitamin/minerals if you follow the food pyramid, but those who eat that way might also get fat if they don't burn all those calories.

 

this is just speculation I have no proof for any of it.

[David Twyman]

Indeed I was responding to the title of the article.

[fractional slacker]

With that said and giving the relative low cost of a "one a day" type supplement, Wouldn't it be harmless (even beneficial ) to take the supplement anyways?

My argument is that given the level of activity of most people today the amount of food that they need is much lower than say if they had to walk miles everyday or chase animals. Given the lower intake of food then the amount of vitaminsminerals might also be lower. Add to that that modern mass-produced food might come from nutrient depleted soil.

You might be able to get all vitamin/minerals if you follow the food pyramid, but those who eat that way might also get fat if they don't burn all those calories.

 

this is just speculation I have no proof for any of it.

Given the relatively low cost needed to be to religious, wouldn't it be harmless to have faith just in case there is a god? ;)What is claimed by the supplement industry and that which is true (what studies have shown), are miles apart. Yes, supplements can and do have benefits. Yes, supplements are sometimes neutral. Yes, supplements sometimes cause illness. Your mileage may vary.

 

Health and nutrition are complicated, to say the least. Would you buy and consume a pill that might help, might have no effect, or might harm you?  It comes down to preference (or even bias), I suppose.

 

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/study-casts-doubt-whether-extra-vitamin-d-prevents-000147089.html

 

"She added that Autier's study did, however, appear to confirm what many nutrition experts have suspected for a while - "that healthy people probably don't need to take a high dose supplement and that the best source of vitamin D for most people is sunlight in the summer, always taking care not to burn."

[wdiaz03]

Given the relatively low cost needed to be to religious, wouldn't it be harmless to have faith just in case there is a god?

 

Given that Gods are all-knowing, wouldn't they see through that deception?

 

Given the number of religions and gods and that some gods are jealous gods, wouldn't it be even worse if you pray to the wrong one? 

 

you get the idea.

[cherapple]

I've heard that the market for vitamins was created with the advent of food processing. Manufacturers needed something to do with all the nutrients they were removing from foods. Thus the vitamin industry was born. If that's true, it's another case of breaking people's legs and then crying, "Look at the good we're doing for you," when they hand you a crutch. It's better to just eat whole foods.

[wdiaz03]

I've heard that the market for vitamins was created with the advent of food processing. Manufacturers needed something to do with all the nutrients they were removing from foods. Thus the vitamin industry was born. If that's true, it's another case of breaking people's legs and then crying, "Look at the good we're doing for you," when they hand you a crutch. It's better to just eat whole foods.

 

Its better to get all your nutritional needs from whole foods. I agree.

But that's just like saying its better to not get sick.

My point was that I've always believed in taking multivitamins as an insurance against deficiencies in my diet. I have no clue what nutrients the foods that I eat contain, so for me pooping a pill every morning is at best beneficial or the worse a waste of a few bucks.

[fractional slacker]

Its better to get all your nutritional needs from whole foods. I agree.

But that's just like saying its better to not get sick.

My point was that I've always believed in taking multivitamins as an insurance against deficiencies in my diet. I have no clue what nutrients the foods that I eat contain, so for me pooping a pill every morning is at best beneficial or the worse a waste of a few bucks.

I will sell you pills I gurantee will never harm you and be just as effective as multivitamins. And these pills will be 50% cheaper. Let me know if you are interested.

Superstition, propaganda, and confirmational bias are what most people prefer. Steph is right. Reason and evidence are irrelevant in changing how people think. 

“Sales of multivitamins and other supplements have not been affected by major studies with null results, and the U.S. supplement industry continues to grow, reaching $28 billion in annual sales in 2010,”

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/multivitamin-researchers-say-case-is-closed-supplements-dont-boost-health/

[wdiaz03]

I will sell you pills I gurantee will never harm you and be just as effective as multivitamins. And these pills will be 50% cheaper. Let me know if you are interested.

Superstition, propaganda, and confirmational bias are what most people prefer. Steph is right. Reason and evidence are irrelevant in changing how people think. 

“Sales of multivitamins and other supplements have not been affected by major studies with null results, and the U.S. supplement industry continues to grow, reaching $28 billion in annual sales in 2010,”

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/multivitamin-researchers-say-case-is-closed-supplements-dont-boost-health/

 

Nah! I'll just wait to the next study that says they are beneficial.

 

“We believe that the case is closed -- supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful,”

 

Well nourished adults? duh!

 

But seriously.

I buy car insurance, It has done nothing for me in the many years I had it. I could give you half the money too and get a paper from you that will do just the same thing so far right?

 

Lets say that Once-A-Day costs $17 for a 200ct bottle, that's over a 6 month supply. At 60 cents a week. How many people buy beer, coffee, ice cream, candy, Soda (maybe even you) at amounts way over 60 cents per week? I don't. What is that doing for them?

[fractional slacker]

Nah! I'll just wait to the next study that says they are beneficial.

 

“We believe that the case is closed -- supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful,”

 

Well nourished adults? duh!

 

But seriously.

I buy car insurance, It has done nothing for me in the many years I had it. I could give you half the money too and get a paper from you that will do just the same thing so far right?

 

Lets say that Once-A-Day costs $17 for a 200ct bottle, that's over a 6 month supply. At 60 cents a week. How many people buy beer, coffee, ice cream, candy, Soda (maybe even you) at amounts way over 60 cents per week? I don't. What is that doing for them?

There are plenty of studies in the affirmation. Mind you they are all funded by the supplement industry.

 

Don't get me started on car insurance. I have a full plate in another thread challenging the notion it is immoral to consume alchohol and then drive a car.

 

The costs are relatively insignificant if you discount the increased risk for damage (eg beta caratine). To be fair, the gains for certain groups (pregnant women folic acid, Sailors and scurvy) are immense.

[AccuTron]

 

Its better to get all your nutritional needs from whole foods. I agree.

But that's just like saying its better to not get sick.

My point was that I've always believed in taking multivitamins as an insurance against deficiencies in my diet. I have no clue what nutrients the foods that I eat contain, so for me pooping a pill every morning is at best beneficial or the worse a waste of a few bucks.

 

The Vitamin Myth: Why We Think We Need Supplements — The Atlantic

 

I am to find a forum topic from months ago that had what I recalled as good links re vitamins.  I did bookmark the one link above.  The link is a good place to start, and gels with what I was searching for.  

 

"What can it hurt?"  Your health.  

 

Our modern lifestyles have us eating way more than our hunter/scavenger ancestors, and more varied.  Unless someone is eating a total fries and donut diet, plus or minus some stupid, they are getting enough vitamins.  Seriously, you are.  How many of us have actually heard of a vitamin deficiency sick person, that didn't have a genetic problem, or was in a totally awful diet?

 

You, all of us, and I have totally been there, have been massively brainwashed.  The vitamins…and I come from a respectable medical family without an axe to grind…are drug pushing pure and simple.  Mega bucks.  For something you already have.  If your cable company tried that, you'd be livid.  

 

The first two paragraphs of that link above, my underlines...

 

On October 10, 2011, researchers from the University of Minnesota found that women who took supplemental multivitamins died at rates higher than those who didn't. Two days later, researchers from the Cleveland Clinic found that men who took vitamin E had an increased risk of prostate cancer. "It's been a tough week for vitamins," said Carrie Gann of ABC News.

These findings weren't new. Seven previous studies had already shown that vitamins increased the risk of cancer and heart disease and shortened lives. Still, in 2012, more than half of all Americans took some form of vitamin supplements. What few people realize, however, is that their fascination with vitamins can be traced back to one man. A man who was so spectacularly right that he won two Nobel Prizes and so spectacularly wrong that he was arguably the world's greatest quack.

[AncapFTW]

The only vitamin I take is a B complex to wake me up.  It works far better than Caffeine for me, like a 5-hour energy, but way cheaper.

[Ray H.]

Here's a chart combining the evidence and popularity of many supplements.

[MagnumPI]

Yeah, yeah. Get a better diet:

 

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/news/20100823/vitamin-d-linked-to-autoimmune-diseases

 

Or take a fuckin pill that has no side effects except better health. We aren't all going to go get our levels checked regularly, and what for? I work out, hit 60+ hours of work a week sometimes, I'm pretty sure my nutrition can use a little help despite my best efforts. And it's only $35 every month or two? Go to hell, worry about your own body. When it's as good as mine, we can at least talk. Not til then, though.

[J. D. Stembal]

*My sensors are picking up a fit-shamer in the thread.*

(Not you, Magnum.)

 

I've been doing a raw egg shake, essentially egg nog without the dairy, by blending it with coconut oil, flax seed oil and cod liver oil. It's a pretty tasty way to start the day, and my body feels great.

[BD91]

Here's a chart combining the evidence and popularity of many supplements.

 

you forgot the "for treating specific ailments" at the end of your sentence.

[Ray H.]

I wrote what I intended to write. You're welcome.

[A4E]

My life and health was both crap before I supplemented.

 

In addition to the other benefits, like more energy and general well being;

 

I 'changed' my low metabolism with Iodine after watching this by Brownstein.

I 'changed' my arthritis with calcium and gelatin after listening to Joel Wallach.

If I ever get cancer or any other illness, I know I will be able to 'change' that aswell, because I know how to use the internet. Takes time to wade through garbage I know, but all the right information seems to be there.

 

The placebo effect does not work on me. I was somewhat unable to walk to the store because my knees would start hurting after a few minutes from arthritis. Now I walk around everywhere and get tired feet instead of inflamed knees.

 

Getting your values checked from a person in a white coat tells you very little about your health. These values do not say anything about how much your body needs or wants. My own opinion is that the body will utilize as much as it can of what it is supplied, and keeps a reserve for scarce times. Reading the values will then just affirm wether you have reserves or not.

 

Trying to get vitamins and minerals and other things from the food we are able to buy today is an uncertain strategy. Sure its possible and I also prefer to try, by buying vegetables and such, but without supplements many years ago, my health would probably be much lower now. With arthritis it is hell to try to work out.

 

An alternative to supplements that I have embraced, is seasoning. Lots of different seasoning have vitamins and minerals. So I bathe my food in different spices every day and I feel very good all day.

 

Maybe the anti supplement people are using lots of seasoning too, so that they dont see any need for the supplements. But if you want to understand a reason why supplements are both in need and usefull, it is because we dont live in or with nature so much anymore. The food we buy comes from fields that may or may not have minerals. It is akin to rolling a dice.

 

I watched a debate on tv many years ago about supplements. The debate itself was not what stuck with me. What I remember was that all the pro supplement people had straight backs and had more energy and just plainly looked more healthy. There was either just 1 or a few anti supplement people, and his head was hanging and he seemed to have trouble sitting straight while he was proclaiming the complete unusefullness of supplements. Ok, he was a bit older than the others, but thats not really an excuse.

 

Overweight can be an effect of vitamin or mineral deficiency, because the body is trying to obtain vitamins and minerals by eating more, so supplements can be a very good option for those who want to loose weight.

 

Hope you found this post usefull. I want to help. <3