Curiosity about Reincarnation

[LovePrevails]

I came across some videos on youtube which I found really interesting to watch,

frankly whether or not reincarnation were true I wouldn't see my mission to have a good life in much of a different light, but coming from a past interest in Eastern Philosophy which I kind of outgrew because it didn't help me nearly as much as inner child work and improving my communication skills,  I often find these discussions quite interesting.

 

This one is the most dry, but it's also the most scientific:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-1BvpDZwiw

 

 

This is a very enjoyable BBC documentary:

 

this is also quite interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w2MCpzE8u0

please don't comment until you've watched the BBC documentary at least, and the first link.

[Kevin Beal]

Sorry, you asked people not to comment til they had watched the videos, but this comment jumped out at me and I felt like responding to it specifically.

 

frankly whether or not reincarnation were true I wouldn't see my mission to have a good life in much of a different light, 

It would me. It changes the incentives to become a good person from being good for goodness's sake to being good because if you do you will be rewarded, or punished for not doing that. If I thought that being bad meant I would return to be a toad, then my own acts of goodness would feel forced and not really my own. It would be pretentious which is why priests and politicians sound so full of hot air, their incentives are like the reincarnated persons.

 

I think it's an important point that deserves some consideration. It doesn't say whether or not reincarnation is true, but the consequences of our beliefs are very important.

 

I apologize again for commenting without watching, I will do that now.

[fridolutin]

I've seen a few films on the subject the one about Ann Franck is  questionning.

 

 

I believe in reincarnation and I think it can be adressed in a scientific manner in a universe where nothing is created and nothing is lost. In that case actions are seen as expression of energy, cause versus effects that are the consequences of those.  If the energy is directed to cause suffering it will eventually comme back to the source in a reversed manner. 

[LovePrevails]

 

It would me. It changes the incentives to become a good person from being good for goodness's sake to being good because if you do you will be rewarded, or punished for not doing that.

 

i understand your desire to comment, but this is a western misunderstanding of the eastern concept of karma which means action

and is better understood as the western concept of cause and effect except, according to the eastern teachings the effects of causes in the consciousness continue , not just physical events, therefore it is the tendency of your consciousness which reincarnates, not a "soul" as such

 

ie, the westerner hears of karma and thinks it means "if you do bad you get bad things to happen to you, if you do good then good things happen to you"

 

Not exactly, in Buddhism, what you do creates tangible results, i you want different results change what you do

what you think, what you feel, is a work in progress that continues after death, so yes, you want to cultivate your consciousness and improve it

if you want to be reborn into better circumstances next time around

 

I think that's roughly it sorry for any shortcomings in my articulation

[Kevin Beal]

Not exactly, in Buddhism, what you do creates tangible results, i you want different results change what you do

what you think, what you feel, is a work in progress that continues after death, so yes, you want to cultivate your consciousness and improve it

if you want to be reborn into better circumstances next time around

The point still stands. The implication is the same.

[LovePrevails]

The point still stands. The implication is the same.

 

point is, if you are pursuing self-knowledge, and improving your mental state that is more a determining factor in your next "incarnation"

rather that the "good" or "bad" things you do - that is a Western interpretation

 

Buddhism is virtue ethics, the idea is your actions result from your inner state, and so that is what to cultivate, 

 

perhaps it would have massive effects on the way you would live

[Alcosta]

 LovePrevails, I found videos you posted very interesting.  While I am unsure of the integrity taken in the these possibly empirical examples, I am unsure how to explain the similarity in the memories.  It's certainly is contradictory to my knowledge of how consciousness functions. As far as my scientific knowledge goes the all cells in the body including the brain are comprised of matter, chemical processes which release energy including the process of consciousness. Synapses as with all cells are built by assimilated nutrients and are fueled by chemical reactions using glucose. The energy is provided from chemical reactions, there are no empirically observed energies in the body which are also undetectable that fuels any bodily function, this includes consciousness which is comprised of matter and energy.

 

I believe in reincarnation and I think it can be adressed in a scientific manner in a universe where nothing is created and nothing is lost. In that case actions are seen as expression of energy, cause versus effects that are the consequences of those.  If the energy is directed to cause suffering it will eventually comme back to the source in a reversed manner. 

 I am with you, virtuous actions have consequences and so does evil, though not necessarily reflected back to that person.  Objective scientific formulas have proven that matter is never created or destroyed i.e. chemical reactions, synthesis. I don't understand how a behavior can be equivalent  or relevant to energy. There are indeed consequences to virtue or evil but they are not objectively measurable or consistent. Also, there is nothing in the world, outside of our consciousness that defines an action as virtuous or evil. Consciousness is required to make moral assessments, for prepared results to the ethical choices would require in omnipotent being. This omnipotent being would need to use consciousness and energy to enact it's will and therefore would be detectable in some form.  I agree with Kevin, if vice  or did have a complex prescribed consequence or arguably a punishment,based consciousness was then cycled to relative and subjective positive or negative states without an opportunity to void the results the individual would not have a choice in being "good", his actions would be motivated by fear and genuine actions could easily be confused with posturing.

There have been countless sociopaths in history resulting the deaths of millions upon millions. In many cases the comprehension of the evil is not understood by the masses until after the toll has been taken.  A belief that a power which is undetectable inconsistent and not objective is responsible for justice is harmful for all those who suffer to the benefit of their perpetrator. The belief holds the capacity to take the responsibility of moral accountability out of the hands of the individual and places it onto the faceless.

 

LovePrevails, please explain what this inner state is, and what does it mean to cultivate it.

[Armitage]

I have no direct experience with reincarnation, but my mom used to do regression therapy for years. The most peculiar thing about it... People may make up stories about their deaths - nobody really does that, but in principle, they can. What they can't make up is the sensations and the emotions associated with it. A seemingly simple phobia or other problem may lead in relaxed regression into a waking nightmare of past life traumatic experience and grown men and women were crying and sobbing for hours in my mom's office. In extreme cases up to 10 hours. Her office was at home, so I heard.

 

I went through regression therapy myself a few times, but it didn't work on me much. I never felt much. The stories I saw took a long time to appear and were not really vivid. Also, after one hour there was nothing to do.

[CrazyCanuck]

point is, if you are pursuing self-knowledge, and improving your mental state that is more a determining factor in your next "incarnation"

rather that the "good" or "bad" things you do - that is a Western interpretation

 

Buddhism is virtue ethics, the idea is your actions result from your inner state, and so that is what to cultivate, 

 

perhaps it would have massive effects on the way you would live

 

point is, if you are pursuing self-knowledge, and improving your mental state that is more a determining factor in your next "incarnation"

rather that the "good" or "bad" things you do - that is a Western interpretation

 

Buddhism is virtue ethics, the idea is your actions result from your inner state, and so that is what to cultivate, 

 

perhaps it would have massive effects on the way you would live

 

 

 

My understand Buddism is letting go of attachments.  Attachments leads to karma.

[Mike Fleming]

Is there any evidence or reason to think reincarnation is real?

 

Nice theory and makes for nice stories in books and films but kind of ridiculous when you actually think about it.

 

Just seems to be a relic of people thinking there are souls to me.

[LovePrevails]

Is there any evidence or reason to think reincarnation is real?

 

Guess who didn't bother to read the first post in the thread or listen to the first video link before posting

[Mike Fleming]

"Remembered previous lives"?  Really?  They've actually attached some person to a real life person that lived before and proved without a doubt that that person could not have known any other way?

 

And they've described the physical process of transmission of consciousness?  Or at least theorised how it might happen?

 

Or is it just woo-woo?  Using pseudo-science to try to prove ancient tradition?

 

If reincarnation was proven it would be revolutionary and news everywhere, and yet, I'm not hearing anything...

[fridolutin]

. Also, there is nothing in the world, outside of our consciousness that defines an action as virtuous or evil. 

 

 

 

Maybee good and bad is simply what qualifies joyfulness and suffering. The evil is a personification of what makes you suffer while the opposite is god (good)

 

Then the apparition of God and Evil is the result of the evolution of abstraction in humanity where long term consequences related to certain actions would lead to a predictable destiny.

Think of how you explain to a child not to do this or that and you’ll understand religion was for the mass of uneducated population. There where abuse and everybody knows about it. 

 

I think the philosophies using god and evil should not be seen as literally but in an abstract manner where what is   represented as hell or paradise is an abstraction the ordinary person cannot see without strong images of what he can touch in his everyday life. 

 

From my point of view, hell and paradise is a recuperation of the oriental point of view of reincarnation and karma.  Like others I think heredity is from Karma.