Obesity

[Henry1958]

Let's see according to the site:

 

 

"The most current reports show number of people who have at least used a health club in 2012 increased those with memberships by 8 million in the same year.["

 

 

It says the number of people used gyms.  However it doesn't state how frequently.  Maybe they used only once or maybe for a few months then stop going.  In order for exercise to be beneficial you need to do it consistently.  So those numbers maybe not accurate if you take accord of regularly exercising approved to at least exercised a few times. Many people stop going eventually and that's why many gyms make good money.

 

This is true which shows how difficult it is for people to keep up an exercise regime. Now strap a 40 extra pound weight to your body and try hitting the gym This should give you an idea of what it's like to exercise, or walk for that matter, if you are obese.

 

It also shows that a lot of people do have the underlying motivation to become healthier, but find it difficult to make it into a lifelong habit out of exercising. This is also reflected in the number of people who have purchased diet books, tried diets and failed, tried diets, succeeded in loosing the weight, then gained all of the weight back after two years. It takes a long time to form a habit of going to the gym, changing diet, etc. This article seems to say it averages at about 66 days. So, 66 days so that working out a the gym is not just a matter of willpower.

 

http://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/hbrc/2012/06/29/busting-the-21-days-habit-formation-myth/

 

I think that most people want to loose weight and be healthier. The question is, are they getting the correct advise on how to proceed.

 

We haven't discussed some of the latest science on exercise that has come out lately regarding frequency, intensity, type, and rest. You'll probably think me an idiot when I state that probably the most important aspect is the latter, (Yes, being a sloth).

 

Of course I have my own opinions on this subject and the science is always progressing.

 

I'm not going to bother with your comments, It seems obvious to me that you are not looking for any productive discussion here.

 

Here is what I read into it: "Hey you obese, lazy, overeating sloths who brought this on yourself! Why don't you go down to the gym and exercise. You can hang out with those steroid popping body builders and the pretty boys and girls. Oh, but by the way, I do respect you, so not hard feelings".

 

So in one post you managed to insult obese people, body builders, good looking people, and people who go to the gym in general. Then you topped it off with a holier than though attitude about respect.

 

So your whole post was very prejudicial and seeing that you targeted 4 groups in just two paragraphs, I would judge you a to be prejudice in general and arrogant to boot. Forgive me if I'm incorrectly judging your personality but I can only go by what I read, and read into, your posts.

 

So this also brings me back to Stephans comments in the video: "Don't give me this bullshit that everybody has some thyroid problem. No! People eat too much and don't exercise." and "...they're generally such an unhealthy group of people that they desperately need all the medications that keep their fat asses walking around. "

 

In my opinion these statements are extremely prejudicial.

[CrazyCanuck]

This is true which shows how difficult it is for people to keep up an exercise regime. Now strap a 40 extra pound weight to your body and try hitting the gym This should give you an idea of what it's like to exercise, or walk for that matter, if you are obese.

 

It also shows that a lot of people do have the underlying motivation to become healthier, but find it difficult to make it into a lifelong habit out of exercising. This is also reflected in the number of people who have purchased diet books, tried diets and failed, tried diets, succeeded in loosing the weight, then gained all of the weight back after two years. It takes a long time to form a habit of going to the gym, changing diet, etc. This article seems to say it averages at about 66 days. So, 66 days so that working out a the gym is not just a matter of willpower.

 

http://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/hbrc/2012/06/29/busting-the-21-days-habit-formation-myth/

 

I think that most people want to loose weight and be healthier. The question is, are they getting the correct advise on how to proceed.

 

We haven't discussed some of the latest science on exercise that has come out lately regarding frequency, intensity, type, and rest. You'll probably think me an idiot when I state that probably the most important aspect is the latter, (Yes, being a sloth).

 

Of course I have my own opinions on this subject and the science is always progressing.

 

 

Here is what I read into it: "Hey you obese, lazy, overeating sloths who brought this on yourself! Why don't you go down to the gym and exercise. You can hang out with those steroid popping body builders and the pretty boys and girls. Oh, but by the way, I do respect you, so not hard feelings".

 

So in one post you managed to insult obese people, body builders, good looking people, and people who go to the gym in general. Then you topped it off with a holier than though attitude about respect.

 

So your whole post was very prejudicial and seeing that you targeted 4 groups in just two paragraphs, I would judge you a to be prejudice in general and arrogant to boot. Forgive me if I'm incorrectly judging your personality but I can only go by what I read, and read into, your posts.

 

So this also brings me back to Stephans comments in the video: "Don't give me this bullshit that everybody has some thyroid problem. No! People eat too much and don't exercise." and "...they're generally such an unhealthy group of people that they desperately need all the medications that keep their fat asses walking around. "

 

In my opinion these statements are extremely prejudicial.

You're attempting being a smart a##, but you know what I proved your point wrong then you go and help me proving your point wrong.    Exercising isn't difficult.  If I offered 1 million dollars to these people if they worked out 5 hours a week they would succeed.  Losing weight is complete like i stated earlier.  Anyways I'm done with this thread because you lack the respect for fellow posters.  Each person is different and one diet won't well with everyone.  Until you understand that you are just wasting everyone's time here.

 

See ya.

[Eh Steve]

Personally I think the Insulin/Carb hypothesis was well reviewed by Stefan Guyenet at http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/

 

I believe he may have done a seven article assesses the hypothesis.  Here is one article on it.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html

 

He is also part of the paleo scene.  He has articles on a few cultures who are lean but eat predominantly carbohydrates (Kitavans etc.).  He also has articles on people who eat mostly fat and are lean (Tokelau, Massai etc.)  Side note, the Tokelau eat an enormous amount of saturated fat from coconuts and have zero heart disease.  

 

Based on studies showing that basically all diets produce about the same amount of weight loss I don't think carbohydrates and insulin is the root cause of the problem.  And high fat intake certainly isn't either (that's just silly).  Increased protein intake seems to have some consistent weight loss results.  Eating a high fat diet does tend to increase protein intake for most people over eating a high carb diet.

 

Guyenet points to the Food Reward hypothesis as another hypothesis worth considering.  A Ketogenic diet would be superior to a mixed diet under this theory.  As would a very low fat diet.  I personally think a high fat / ketogenic diet is much more enjoyable and flexible.  The effects of increased reward, palatability, and variety are well demonstrated on rodents and there are a few convincing studies on humans.

 

However, I've lost 60+ pounds this year eating 90% junk food (literally I go to 7-11 2-3 times a day and eat a can of tuna).  So I'm not sure any one theory of obesity is completely solid yet.  Obesity is a complex beast.  I did this simply by not having food around me and walking down the street to 7-11 for every meal.  This past week I've eaten almost exclusively ice cream.

 

I've been in the dieting scene for over 10 years now and have read and tried basically everything around.  (Vegan, Vegetarian, Raw Vegan, Paleo, Low Carb, Ketogenic, Low Reward, and Junk Food diet).  Personally I didn't find my results or mood etc. to be any different on any of the diets.  I find eating junk food and supplementing with protein has worked pretty well for me this year.  However with the caveat that I completely restrict having food in my apartment aside from tuna.

 

If anyone is going to read the China Study I think it would be wise to read it's critique by Denise Minger:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

 

That was the only part that bugged me about the interview.  The China study is cherry-picked for biased conclusions.

 

Just my opinion but after 10 years of study here are my conclusions:

 

Being overweight is bad for you.  (Diabetes is often cured just by losing weight)

Eat less by modifying your diet in some way. (Low fat, Low carb, Less food..whatever)

Increase your muscle mass with weight lifting.

Get atleast 60 grams of protein daily.

 

Everything else is unconfirmed or unnecessary IMO.

[Henry1958]

You're attempting being a smart a##, but you know what I proved your point wrong then you go and help me proving your point wrong.    Exercising isn't difficult.  If I offered 1 million dollars to these people if they worked out 5 hours a week they would succeed.  Losing weight is complete like i stated earlier.  Anyways I'm done with this thread because you lack the respect for fellow posters.  Each person is different and one diet won't well with everyone.  Until you understand that you are just wasting everyone's time here.

 

See ya.

 

Um, since when have I tried to make this a point of right or wrong? If you've read my previous posts you'll see that I'm very open  minded, tried many different diets on myself, and still use a combination. The only close mindedness I see in the discussion are from yourself and wdiaz03. Wow, I guess you're all excited and proud of yourself that you made a point which was true. You have humbled me and I'm so ashamed.

 

From what I can infer you both seem to be Moral Vegans and, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I find that many Moral Vegans tend to be Authoritarians. Since Moral Vegans are selecting their diet based on moral rather than health reason, they have the tendency to want to want to inflict their beliefs on others.

 

What a stupid example of offering someone a million dollars if they work out for 5 hours a week. I guess it's like fear factor, and these idiots are offered $50,000.

 

 

If you've got the million please make me the offer and I'll gladly work out for 5 hours a day. When you pay me I'll go back to my 3 day/30 minutes a day workout and laugh all the way to the bank, (or probably convert them to Bitcoins). 

"Eating stunts entail ingesting vile animal parts, live bugs, or a blended concoction of multiple items; animal stunts entail immersing one's head or entire body in animals considered to be disgusting or intimidating (such as rats, spiders, snakes, or worms); retrieval/transfer stunts entail retrieving items or gross objects (often by mouth) hidden in disgusting substances (for example, blood or lard), or live animals (such as sit in a tub of snakes as long as they could)."

 

 

Where did I state that each person isn't different and one diet fits all? My diet changes all the time and is still in flux as I experiment on myself. I'm not trying to promote any one diet.

 

As for not respecting fellow posters that comes with the territory when fellow posters have no respect for whole swaths of the population. If obesity was a race rather than just a condition I would have pegged him as a racist rather than just a prejudice.

 

I'm so happy for you that you won one of the arguments, where no argument was implied, and tripped me up.  My shame. Now you can take your Soya Bean Ball and go home.

[endostate]

Henry1958, you seem inconsistent:

Insulting is good: If you are to lazy to spend 15 minutes watching the video and still comment negatively on his post you can go fuck yourself.

Insulting is good: Perhaps you neglected to actually watch the video prior to posting your response.... If you catch my drift.

Insulting is bad: Enough of the "appeal to ridicule" logical falacy.

Insulting is bad: I guess 1 - Ad Hominem, 2 - Appeal to Authority and 3 - Appeal to Ridicule are also up your alley.

Insulting is bad: please do tell me what's so bad about wanting to look good?

Insulting is bad: So in one post you managed to insult obese people, body builders, good looking people, and people who go to the gym in general. Then you topped it off with a holier than though attitude about respect.

Insulting is good: If obesity was a race rather than just a condition I would have pegged him as a racist rather than just a prejudice.

Predjudice is good: the Palio group tend to be very libertarian

Predjudice is good: From what I can infer you both seem to be Moral Vegans and, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I find that many Moral Vegans tend to be Authoritarians

Predjudice is bad: So your whole post was very prejudicial and seeing that you targeted 4 groups in just two paragraphs, I would judge you a to be prejudice in general and arrogant to boot

Strawman is good: Here is what I read into it: "Hey you obese, lazy, overeating sloths who brought this on yourself! Why don't you go down to the gym and exercise. You can hang out with those steroid popping body builders and the pretty boys and girls. Oh, but by the way, I do respect you, so not hard feelings"

Insulting is good: What a stupid example of offering someone a million dollars if they work out for 5 hours a week.

Insulting is good: As for not respecting fellow posters that comes with the territory

Insulting is good: The only close mindedness I see in the discussion are from yourself and wdiaz03. Wow, I guess you're all excited and proud of yourself that you made a point which was true. You have humbled me and I'm so ashamed.

Insulting is good: I'm so happy for you that you won one of the arguments, where no argument was implied, and tripped me up.  My shame.

 

Why is it that you care so much about what other people do with their bodies?

[CrazyCanuck]

Now I'm suppose to vegan.  I really can't take people seriously when they are like this.  

[Henry1958]

Henry1958, you seem inconsistent:

 

Why is it that you care so much about what other people do with their bodies?

 

Yes, I can be inconsistent and abrasive. Let's just say I didn't ace debating 101 so let my emotions get away from me at times. I did apologize, (a somewhat qualified apology), for my opening statement and wanted to pull it but didn't know about the edit option of the site. Let me apologize again.

 

   

"Why is it that you care so much about what other people do with their bodies?"

 

 

I think you are misrepresenting my position. I don't really care about what each individual does with their bodies. My concern is what society as a whole is doing to their bodies and if this damage is not due to their individual choices, but driven by false, incomplete, or outdated information.

A few of questions I've posed are:

• First law of Thermodynamics, Calories in Calories out argument. Is it valid?
• Obesity causes all of the associated rather than being a co-symptom of some other underlying disease?
• Is advising an obese person to eat less and exercise a valid approach?
• Do many obese people deserve the scorn that is laid upon them by the rest of society, or do they deserve our sympathy instead?
• Health benefits/damage of a low carbohydrate and/or low fat diet?
• Whether the Canada/U.S. food guilds are beneficial or harmful and part of the cause of the obesity epidemic?
• What is the cause of the obesity/associate disease epidemic when looking at the latest science?
• Should we reexamine our own personal bias on these subjects, (as I have don't myself), or just keep on relying on our old dogmatic beliefs?
• Were the statements Stephan made in his video inappropriate?

So I'll have to ask you a question in return, and as you misrepresented your question to me, I'm doing the same to you by using a generalization on your feelings on the topic.

 

Obesity and it's associated diseases, (Heart disease and stroke, High blood pressure, Diabetes, Cancer, Gallbladder disease and gallstones, Osteoarthritis, Gout, Breathing problems), are in effectively epidemics.

 

Why is it that you don't care about what society is doing with their bodies, whether purposefully or inadvertently?

Now I'm suppose to vegan.  I really can't take people seriously when they are like this.  

 

My bad assumption. Sorry about that.

[David Twyman]

Sugars (both simple and complex) cannot convert to fat, thus not causing obesity. If anyone can prove that it does would like to hear it.

Judge by results, not by theory. Henry 1958 stated his conclusions without evidence, eg "we know that..." don't say it, prove it, show us the clincical data, not some diet book authors, please.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

y

Really?  There are fruitarian who eat a high carb low fat diet that aren't fat.  Go to youtube and watch durian rider he eats that low fat high carb diet.  Apparently this will make people fat. 

Howcome most asians and african's are obese then? they eat a carbohydrate based diet. Howcome they have worse cardiovascular disease than the biggest producers of meat and dairy like Australia, brazil and Finland? I think we have a sweet tooth because we should eat meat.

[CrazyCanuck]

Sugars (both simple and complex) cannot convert to fat, thus not causing obesity. If anyone can prove that it does would like to hear it.

Judge by results, not by theory. Henry 1958 stated his conclusions without evidence, eg "we know that..." don't say it, prove it, show us the clincical data, not some diet book authors, please.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

y

Howcome most asians and african's are obese then? they eat a carbohydrate based diet. Howcome they have worse cardiovascular disease than the biggest producers of meat and dairy like Australia, brazil and Finland? I think we have a sweet tooth because we should eat meat.

Probably due to higher meat consumption.  If you look at the food combining principles you will see that digestion is impaired when mixing carbs with animal protein.

[Eh Steve]

Sugars (both simple and complex) cannot convert to fat, thus not causing obesity. If anyone can prove that it does would like to hear it.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis

 

I can't tell if you are being sincere or not.

[Henry1958]

Sugars (both simple and complex) cannot convert to fat, thus not causing obesity. If anyone can prove that it does would like to hear it.

Judge by results, not by theory. Henry 1958 stated his conclusions without evidence, eg "we know that..." don't say it, prove it, show us the clincical data, not some diet book authors, please.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

y

Howcome most asians and african's are obese then? they eat a carbohydrate based diet. Howcome they have worse cardiovascular disease than the biggest producers of meat and dairy like Australia, brazil and Finland? I think we have a sweet tooth because we should eat meat.

 

I guess this requires both a long and a short answer. Long answer first.

 

Here you can get all of the information you want on how  sugars can be converted into fat. All the information you need is there.

 

How Sugar is Converted to Fat

 

Now you state:

"Judge by results, not by theory. Henry 1958 stated his conclusions without evidence, eg "we know that...""

First "we know that..." is actually a quote from Dr. Attia not myself, and the whole quote is "we know that refined grains and starches elevate your blood sugar in the short run, and there's even reason to believe that sugar may lead to insulin resistance directly.". I see nothing wrong with this statement can you point out what the problem is?

 

So not only did you attribute the quote to the incorrect person, you misinterpreted it's meaning. Then you said:

"don't say it, prove it, show us the clincical data, not some diet book authors, please."

So you are asking me for clinical data whereas the proof you supply is some lame propaganda video produced by a vegetarian/vegan web site author. I guess we could replace the Paleo authors in the video with what is current considered the "Gurus" of the Paleo field. I added Dr. Attia as well.

 

http://ultimatepaleoguide.com/mark-sisson/

http://robbwolf.com/about/

http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/tag/ancestral-health/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/dietandfitness/3353110/Big-fat-lie.html

http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia

 

I don't know... I find them all quite hot. A bit less lean than the vegans in the group, but I'd do em. Jeff Nelson should find a more flattering word to describe the vegans in the video than lean.

 

 

lean 

Main Entry:

lean  [leen] Show IPA

Part of Speech: adjective Definition: bare, thin Synonyms: angular, anorexic, barren, beanpole, bony, emaciated, gangling, gangly, gaunt, haggard, inadequate, infertile, lank, lanky, meager, no fat, pitiful, poor, rangy, rawboned, scanty, scraggy, scrawny, shadow*, sinewy, skinny, slender, slim, spare, sparse, stick, stilt, stringy, svelte, sylphlike, twiggy, unfruitful, unproductive, wasted, wiry, wizened, worn

 

For the short answer, since you obviously tried to insult me by to attribute a quote to me that was not mine, and truncating it in an attempted misrepresented its meaning, I'll just say "Go fuck yourself and shove your Shrek doll where the sun don't shine.".  If you require any assistance on how this is feasible, I'd recommend clicking on my first web link. I'm sure it will have all of the information you require on how to achieve these two maneuvers and make them especially enjoyable.

 

I'm not sure if you are actually a meat eater dressed in vegan drag to try to make the vegan community look like assholes? Being that 75% of my diet is vegan, I guess I too should be 75% insulted.

 

And don't judge the Paleo community by my posts. I in no way represent them since I'm not actually Paleo, just an asshole.

BTW CrazyCunuk. I believe CarbCruncher was being sarcastic when he stated: "Howcome most asians and african's are obese then? they eat a carbohydrate based diet.". Or he could just be a fucking idiot to make such a statement? They only become obese when they adopt the North American diet. As you can see in the article by Dr. Attia, the data is not all in, so no definitive reason can be given for this, only theories.

 

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-do-some-cultures-stay-lean-while-still-consuming-high-amounts-of-carbohydrates

 

 

 

 

 

[David Twyman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis

 

I can't tell if you are being sincere or not.

I'm still confused, i would have to do alot of biochemistry research... I know that glucose gets stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen and it's very hard to consume an amount that would lead to excess.

I guess this requires both a long and a short answer. Long answer first.

 

Here you can get all of the information you want on how  sugars can be converted into fat. All the information you need is there.

 

How Sugar is Converted to Fat

 

Now you state:

"Judge by results, not by theory. Henry 1958 stated his conclusions without evidence, eg "we know that...""

First "we know that..." is actually a quote from Dr. Attia not myself, and the whole quote is "we know that refined grains and starches elevate your blood sugar in the short run, and there's even reason to believe that sugar may lead to insulin resistance directly.". I see nothing wrong with this statement can you point out what the problem is?

 

So not only did you attribute the quote to the incorrect person, you misinterpreted it's meaning. Then you said:

"don't say it, prove it, show us the clincical data, not some diet book authors, please."

So you are asking me for clinical data whereas the proof you supply is some lame propaganda video produced by a vegetarian/vegan web site author. I guess we could replace the Paleo authors in the video with what is current considered the "Gurus" of the Paleo field. I added Dr. Attia as well.

 

http://ultimatepaleoguide.com/mark-sisson/

http://robbwolf.com/about/

http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/tag/ancestral-health/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/dietandfitness/3353110/Big-fat-lie.html

http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia

 

I don't know... I find them all quite hot. A bit less lean than the vegans in the group, but I'd do em. Jeff Nelson should find a more flattering word to describe the vegans in the video than lean.

 

 

lean  

Main Entry:

lean  [leen] Show IPA

Part of Speech: adjective Definition: bare, thin Synonyms: angular, anorexic, barren, beanpole, bony, emaciated, gangling, gangly, gaunt, haggard, inadequate, infertile, lank, lanky, meager, no fat, pitiful, poor, rangy, rawboned, scanty, scraggy, scrawny, shadow*, sinewy, skinny, slender, slim, spare, sparse, stick, stilt, stringy, svelte, sylphlike, twiggy, unfruitful, unproductive, wasted, wiry, wizened, worn

For the short answer, since you obviously tried to insult me by to attribute a quote to me that was not mine, and truncating it in an attempted misrepresented its meaning, I'll just say "Go fuck yourself and shove your Shrek doll where the sun don't shine.".  If you require any assistance on how this is feasible, I'd recommend clicking on my first web link. I'm sure it will have all of the information you require on how to achieve these two maneuvers and make them especially enjoyable.

 

I'm not sure if you are actually a meat eater dressed in vegan drag to try to make the vegan community look like assholes? Being that 75% of my diet is vegan, I guess I too should be 75% insulted.

 

And don't judge the Paleo community by my posts. I in no way represent them since I'm not actually Paleo, just an asshole.

BTW CrazyCunuk. I believe CarbCruncher was being sarcastic when he stated: "Howcome most asians and african's are obese then? they eat a carbohydrate based diet.". Or he could just be a fucking idiot to make such a statement? They only become obese when they adopt the North American diet. As you can see in the article by Dr. Attia, the data is not all in, so no definitive reason can be given for this, only theories.

 

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-do-some-cultures-stay-lean-while-still-consuming-high-amounts-of-carbohydrates

 

Lol, are you really using mark sisson as an example of drug-free health? Come on... yes, very sarcastic i was about the asians.

Probably due to higher meat consumption.  If you look at the food combining principles you will see that digestion is impaired when mixing carbs with animal protein.

I was joking bro. Good on you for promoting Durianrider.