stephenscorzo Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8RulhBVzbk After watching that, my anger and rage boils. Yet no one sees how fucked up school really is. I have a 3 year old and live in the United States. I struggled and had a lot of hardship in dealing with school, and my parents who I live with seem to think that is good if it happens to my son. I work and my wife is stay at home with my son every day. I work to contribute to the house, I don't make a whole lot and I will make less when I have to pay student loans. I had Do I make a very strong case to people who think school is good? Thanks, Steve
tasmlab Posted November 22, 2013 Posted November 22, 2013 We're just about ready to homeschool. I'm 100% there and my wife is about 70%. She's nervous about it! I just completely feasted on John Taylor Gatto's books "dumbing us down" and "weapons of mass instruction". They were fabulous. They criticize compulsory education. Highly recommended. Your case against public schools will be sharp. There's (at least) two sides to the argument: one is showing the damage that factory school does; the other is showing the potential a liberated child can achieve if encouraged to be curious and thoughtful and not being made to sit immobile in a desk all day and be forced to raise their hands to use the bathroom.
stephenscorzo Posted November 22, 2013 Author Posted November 22, 2013 the standardization is also what bugs me too. I grew up having a learning disability, I've been classified as learning disabled. The bullying and constant stress shouldn't be a part of any kids life. I will get an audio book version of gato's works so that me and her can listen each night.
Dylan Lawrence Moore Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 I will get an audio book version of gato's works so that me and her can listen each night. Don't forget the Ultimate History Lesson with John Taylor Gatto! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8
cherapple Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 The School Sucks Project is doing a series called "The Best of John Taylor Gatto." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWRqZrCMqbA&feature=share&list=PL8v6e5jkrm1FvaQv7GuZe41o4fPfreV0O
stephenscorzo Posted November 24, 2013 Author Posted November 24, 2013 Things I hear from her and my family for that matter are: 1. School is a place for you to socialize with other kids. 2. if you don't send your kids to school, he won't learn the value of competition and will be very stunted. 3. it will look very weird to a prospective employer seeing that the kid never went to any regular school. furthermore, public school prepares children for college. 4. (from my older brother) Growing up Steve your father was very lazy, you are very lazy, you will do a terrible job because one thing school has, is discipline what you don't have. Lastly, my wifes main concern is about socialization. She is worried that he won't have the kids to play with. She doesn't really have a car to go to a lot of these events, am I pretty much work 8 hours a day non stop Monday through Friday.although it's a major discussions we've been having we've been breaking through that idea, she just wants to get more involved in the process of seeing how it works, this means she wants to see tangible results, she wants to see this action, she wants very practical ways to do it.
cherapple Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 By "socialize," most people mean "propagandize." John Taylor Gatto gives all kinds of examples of how he helped children break out of the public school matrix, even while he and they were in it. He also tells all kinds of stories about successful people who quit or decided not to go to school. I don't know whether these stories are in the videos because I haven't listened to them all yet, but I read several of his books years ago, and I've seen him speak several times. It sounds like you are already convinced, but if you can gently and slowly bring your wife over to the side of righteous anger (which Gatto is good at expressing), you might be able to get her to re-examine her motivations and the experiences that she wants to give your son. Will she listen to or watch YouTube videos? Family pressure can be tough, especially when they are afraid of, or feel threatened by, your choices. Ultimately, the choices and responsibilities yours, you can state them assertively and without explanation — unless they ask genuinely kind and curious questions — and they can be left to handle their own discomfort.
stephenscorzo Posted November 24, 2013 Author Posted November 24, 2013 the tone is that of concern, but there really isn't any curiosity almost hostility. they're really scared of my choice but ever since I've listened to free domain radio I've really kind of made enemies from my hyper liberal parents. everything right breast is that crazy libertarian ideology that scares them. my mother tried telling me to listen to reason by using ad hominems against me. my dad is a little bit nicer next time what I say make sense, my wife is the same but having my son all day kind of scares her, I think that's a major mitigating factors as well.
Mishelle Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I think Charlotte Iserbyt has a lot of good info: https://www.tragedyandhope.com/deliberatedumbingdownofamerica-charlotteiserbyt/ I really admire efforts to homeschool and think it's just awesome when anyone goes that route!
stephenscorzo Posted November 25, 2013 Author Posted November 25, 2013 Thank you all for your really excellent responses to this difficult question. As a parent, I will just have to be far more assertive with my parents as well as provide a valid case to my wife. Moving out of their house might be a great start. John Taylor Gato seems like an excellent start, especially since he used to be a teacher. As for my son's socialization, I will most likely just have to create a meet up for like minded parents in my area which seems to lack in my area at the moment.
tasmlab Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 BTW - Follow up!!! Breaking news! My wife and I are going to start unschooling/homeschooling on December 10th. We're really excited! I finally got her to agree. Things I hear from her and my family for that matter are:1. School is a place for you to socialize with other kids.2. if you don't send your kids to school, he won't learn the value of competition and will be very stunted.3. it will look very weird to a prospective employer seeing that the kid never went to any regular school. furthermore, public school prepares children for college.4. (from my older brother) Growing up Steve your father was very lazy, you are very lazy, you will do a terrible job because one thing school has, is discipline what you don't have. 1. We'll find other places to make friends. 2. Teach them competition. Let them play community sports. Just because something is taught at a school doesn't mean it can't be taught elsewhere. 3. Except that homeschool kids often accomplish crazy advanced things. For example, google Ben Swann. 4. It's not really about you, but letting the kids explore and learn what they want. You don't need to be a school-style teacher. I know these are thin answers, but keep studying. I certainly don't have them all, but I'm going to jump in and learn!
ccuthbert Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Stephenscorzo, the socialization boogeyman is just that, a boogeyman. What does the word really mean, anyway? The only way I've ever heard it used is to denigrate homeschoolers. The implication is that without gov't school, we'd all be wild animals, at each others' throats. The fact is that gov't school does not provide the environment for healthy social development. What young children need is not other children to play with (from whom they will pick up just about nothing but bad habits) but the example of adults in everyday life. This is not to say that you shouldn't find playmates or have friends and playdays, just that those things are not the key to socialization. When my husband first brought up homeschooling, I told him I couldn't do it bc I didn't want my children to hate me. Everybody hates their teachers, right? Then I started researching homeschooling. John Holt, Daniel Greenberg, the Moores, JT Gatto, Growing without Schooling. I read everything I could get my hands on. I realized that I didn't have to fill the role of a gov't school teacher at home. I could be mom and let my children be children. Maybe if your wife could come to that same realization, her anxiety about homeschooling would disappear.
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