Forgiving my father

[Jami]

I've thought about talking about this for a long time, and I'm still thinking. I feel a lot of anger towards my biological father. So much that I despise the fact I even use the would father to describe him. There was a lot of domestic violence, verbal abuse, and mental insanity in our household growing up. He wasn't completely to blame for all of it, but that doesn't mean he isn't responsible for the evil he did. He used to hit my brother a lot, he sexually assaulted me when I was 11, and mutilated my beloved pet. Combine that with abandoning me when I was deathly ill, maybe now you have an idea as to why I'm angry. I was in therapy for this from age 11 to 13. It helped me at the time but didn't resolve my feelings of hostility. I haven't spoken or seen him in 9 years. I recently moved back to my hometown where he resides somewhere. My brother and him are close. My brother recently told me his side of the story. He says he sexually assaulted me because he didn't know how to cope with me growing up. He has expressed over and over again how terribly sorry he is for what he did. So much so that my brother says it eats him alive inside.

 

I've been trying to get to the root of all of this for some time but time and time again I hit a brick wall. Is it possible to forgive him? Could this be the reason why I have never felt emotional intimacy in relationships? Is this the reason why I don't trust men (in relationships)?

 

I would like your complete and honest opinion. Thank you for your time.

[_LiveFree_]

Wow. I am so sorry you had to go through this. I mean, damn. 

 

Is forgiveness a goal for you? Do you see forgiveness as a way to have a relationship with your father again?

[Jami]

Thank you for your empathy. I don't know if forgiveness is a possible goal for me. I want it to be. I see forgiveness as a way to get rid of the anger. I don't know if I ever want a relationship with my father again. Where would I even start with this? 

[RestoringGuy]

There are other ways to cope that he could have done instead.  I do not allow excuses like that from my mother.  To feel unsafe is I think better than achieving half-forgiveness.  If an apology includes "because" or explanations to say why, then it is only to boost their emotions instead of yours.  We know these parents were terrorized in their youth, but to me, forgiveness is a bad result if it leaves doubts whether it was earned.

[PatrickC]

I see forgiveness as a way to get rid of the anger.

 

You have my biggest sympathy for what your father put you and your brother through, that was quite wretched.

 

I'm just gonna throw out a possibility here for you, so take it with all the salt necessary. But anger in my opinon is an appropriate response to how your father treated you. If you feel all consumed by it, then I suggest you haven't attributed blame correctly and that it's possible you blame yourself partly. This wouldn't be that unusual of course, since children will internalise their experience of their caregivers. Check out Alice Millers book, 'Drama of a Gifted Child'.

 

Just an aside, forgiveness would be an involuntary act akin to love. It would be a reflection of how much sorrow and restitution a person made to resolves things with you. You literally have no control when it comes to forgiving someone. Best wishes.

[CrazyCanuck]

I forgave my father long time ago.  He was physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive  me.  He told me I was useless, good for nothing, better off dead and even later on life he told me if he had another son he would forget about me.  While he doesn't do these things to me now he does regret it.  He hasn't told me personally but he wants to see me a lot.  He can't even have the balls to show me his feelings it's always at a  distance.  Last time I visited him I gave him a hug before I left.  i didn't forgive my father for him but for myself.  It's like a ton of brick is off my shoulders.  One of my sister wouldn't forgive my father for something else and she only started talking to him because he almost died of infection.  You do not want to be in that situation.  Forgiving is a lot easier than you think. A lot easier than going to therapy trying to workout your problems.

[Lens]

You went through hell my friend I experienced a hell like that in my childhood and believe me no child should have gone through that. It is a total insanity that these people don’t fucking question their actions and after they come like victims (cowards) and ask for forgiveness. Please read my post in its entirety it may help you to overcome your feelings of guilt.

 

Religions, ideologies and society preach forgiveness. When I described the horror of my childhood to my old friends they all without exception asked me to forgive and move on. I didn’t listen to them for one reason. The reason behind why everyone is asking me to forgive my cruel parents ? Why there is majority of people that ask to forgive why this obsession with forgiveness. And when a majority agrees on something there is room to investigate because something may be wrong. Usually majority choose the easy path that leads to more denial. 

 

When I talked about my anger and rage toward my caregivers for letting me live a miserable childhood at their hands everyone among my friends was outraged but not enough to stand by the child I was they indirectly took a stand with my former abusers. They encouraged me to feel my anger but in their view I had to forgive because the feelings of guilt will kill me and again in their view there is no way out but to forgive otherwise I’ll be stuck in hatred. All these friends now do not talk to me because they fear their own repressed feelings of fear and anger triggered by my words and my tragic childhood.

 

I listened to these people for sometime and I listened to my feelings especially to my body what is telling me and discovered that clearly I won’t die if I do not forgive my parents and family for the crimes they did and they will not die because I decided to not to forgive. At first I was afraid to be labeled as a bad person for not forgiving but chose to dive into this childhood fear and investigate it, I found out that I was afraid to be punished if I didn’t forgive just like a child who is asked to love his/her parents, abusive as they are or were. I allowed myself to feel that feeling of fear it came with a huge emotional pain the pain that I had to suppress to survive as a child and now I am an adult I can stand up for my genuine and justified feelings of hatred, disgust and contempt towards my cruel caregivers. When I decided to not to forgive I opened the door to these awful feelings. I expressed them in my therapy until I was over and felt them to the fullest. I am lucky to have a therapist who stands by the child I was and not by my abusive parents.

 

Ask yourself why do you need to forgive ? and for what ? 

I believe this forgiveness bullshit is part of the propaganda drummed on us children while our brain and neurones were forming it is no surprise that it almost made part of our “genes". 

 

My mom came to me (by phone)  2 years ago she told me that she was a bad mom and that she mistreated me, didn’t protect me and she was sorry and asked that one day I would forgive her. I was ambivalent I didn’t know if I had to or should forgive. Later I knew that she was suffering guilt feelings and she wanted a relief by my forgiveness which was and again up to me to take care of her feelings and take care of her unmet childhood needs. When we talked again I asked her why didn’t she think twice before abusing me I asked her the REAL QUESTIONS that the former child I was, couldn’t afford to ask, she couldn’t answer them but gave me empty words. When I was a child there was no mean to talk to my mom and stand up to her I would have been crushed by her beatings and slaps. Now that I grew up in size she cannot do anything to me and I can defend myself with WORDS and not let them inflict guilt upon me like they used to do it in the past.

 

Many parents (former abused children) forgave theirs for all the deeds and the abuse they suffered from later when they had children they abused them more or less in the same way. If the mind tricks us into forgiving cruelty the body will not let itself be fooled and we become sick if we do not listen to the inner child. Imposed forgiveness whether by others or the self can lead to depression because our mind and body know how much we endured and we will not be fooled by religion bullshit of forgiveness.

 

In the end I want also say that many of us may at times feel pity for the parent of today because they have become ill, old and maybe some are even suffering and we may feel that it is time to forgive just like in the movies so they can feel relief. But I will ask you to think about the child you were, tiny, helpless, small, dependent and needy, and how they responded to your needs and did they have pity when you were terrorized and traumatized by all the abuse you went through and they didn't protect you. Please think and feel about that deeply your truth is in there.

 

Don’t swallow your justified anger. If you put your anger behind you, you may get sick or depressed. I hope you will give room to your TRUE feelings YOURS and not what others EXPECT you to feel.

 

 

Article about forgiveness that I greatly benefited from: http://www.alice-miller.com/articles_en.php?lang=en&nid=48&grp=11

Books that also helped me to overcome my feelings of fear and guilt also to heal child abuse including sexual abuse:

[*]The Body Never Lies or The Truth Will Set You Free by Alice Miller  [*]Memory and Abuse (Remembering and Healing The Effects of Trauma) by Charles L. Whitfield [*]Emotional Blackmail (When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You) by Susan Forward [*]The Obsidian Mirror (Healing From Childhood Sexual Abuse) by Louise M. Wisechild

 

 

Much love and empathy 

 

Good luck

 

Lens

[CrazyCanuck]

 

 

Don’t swallow your justified anger. If you put your anger behind you, you may get sick or depressed. I hope you will give room to your TRUE feelings YOURS and not what others EXPECT you to feel.

 

 

 

Much love and empathy 

 

Good luck

 

Lens

 

People get sickness and depression because they felt wrong.  It's how you look at things.  My father heated me but I wasn't scared.  Nobody can hurt me unless I give them permission.  Unless it's real physical pain but I'm not talking about that.

 

You can not have true love with hate.  If you can not forgive the person that you have hate at some level.  

[Wesley]

You can not have true love with hate.  If you can not forgive the person that you have hate at some level.  

I do not understand either of these statements. I do not think either is true. I would appreciate an explanation as to your thought process.

[CrazyCanuck]

I do not understand either of these statements. I do not think either is true. I would appreciate an explanation as to your thought process.

Thank you for asking.  Let's use a bucket of water.  Negative actions and thoughts is dirty water because it causes you stress.  Let's say positive thoughts is clean water.  You go to therapy and change things you have mostly positive thoughts, however you haven't forgiven so there's still negative thoughts.  You might not be fully aware but subconsciously it's still there.  The more negative thoughts will result in dirty water.  So can you say the water in the bucket is pure?  Of course not because it contains dirty water.

 

The rice experiment will prove this.  I asked people to do it but they won't.  If you do it you will understand what I mean.  

 

On top of that negative thoughts causes stress.  People that hurt you in the past are harming themselves because it takes thoughts to do bad things.  Unless they pay back what they have done they will continue to suffer.  If they are harming themselves probably for their entire life would I be angry or dislike them?  If I can truly forgive them then I won't suffer and that person will, would be unreasonable for me to continue to be angry at them.    Stefan talks about highest level of virtue. How can you have highest level of virtue when you hate people.  Of course it's not that I don't get angry, but I don't hold grudges for a long time.  The difference is I'm striving for highest level of virtue. I don't claim to be virtuous because I haven't reach there yet.

 

Btw it's not about suppressing anger but transforming it.  There is a big difference.  I hope you enlightened to it eventually.

[Wesley]

Thank you for asking.  Let's use a bucket of water.  Negative actions and thoughts is dirty water because it causes you stress.  Let's say positive thoughts is clean water.  You go to therapy and change things you have mostly positive thoughts, however you haven't forgiven so there's still negative thoughts.  You might not be fully aware but subconsciously it's still there.  The more negative thoughts will result in dirty water.  So can you say the water in the bucket is pure?  Of course not because it contains dirty water.

 

The rice experiment will prove this.  I asked people to do it but they won't.  If you do it you will understand what I mean.  

 

On top of that negative thoughts causes stress.  People that hurt you in the past are harming themselves because it takes thoughts to do bad things.  Unless they pay back what they have done they will continue to suffer.  If they are harming themselves probably for their entire life would I be angry or dislike them?  If I can truly forgive them then I won't suffer and that person will, would be unreasonable for me to continue to be angry at them.    Stefan talks about highest level of virtue. How can you have highest level of virtue when you hate people.  Of course it's not that I don't get angry, but I don't hold grudges for a long time.  The difference is I'm striving for highest level of virtue. I don't claim to be virtuous because I haven't reach there yet.

 

Btw it's not about suppressing anger but transforming it.  There is a big difference.  I hope you enlightened to it eventually.

 

 

I do not see how justified hate is a negative thought.

 

I don't really see how any feelings are negative. They just are. I would consider anger and hatred to be a feeling rather than a thought.

 

Thoughts I wouldn't evaluate on a positive/negative scale, but on something more similar to a true/false scale. Beliefs that generated thoughts can be challenged, but if a belief is wrong it would still be odd for me to say it is negative for the person. I think I would be asking the "compared to what?" question. I wouldn't say "thinking 2+2 = 5 is negative", but rather that "thinking 2+2 = 4 is false."

 

Maybe you could explain that a little more what you mean and then I can better articulate the problem I find with it.

[CrazyCanuck]

I do not see how justified hate is a negative thought.

 

I don't really see how any feelings are negative. They just are. I would consider anger and hatred to be a feeling rather than a thought.

 

Thoughts I wouldn't evaluate on a positive/negative scale, but on something more similar to a true/false scale. Beliefs that generated thoughts can be challenged, but if a belief is wrong it would still be odd for me to say it is negative for the person. I think I would be asking the "compared to what?" question. I wouldn't say "thinking 2+2 = 5 is negative", but rather that "thinking 2+2 = 4 is false."

 

Maybe you could explain that a little more what you mean and then I can better articulate the problem I find with it.

Try the rice experiment.  There is negative consequences with negative thoughts even if you don't talk to that person.  

If you feel that way then why would you feel wrong if one of your parents hurt you.  Your feelings aren't negative?  It's just is then what your parents shouldn't matter or anyone else.  It's just is according to you.  If my parents spanked me it's not negative right?  It's just is?

 

 

http://www.positive-thinking-principles.com/positive-thinking-power.html

[Wesley]

If my parents spanked me it's not negative right?  It's just is?

I don't know what the rest of your post means.

 

This is an action. An action can be evaluated as positive or negative. This has nothing to do with thoughts, beliefs or feelings.

[CrazyCanuck]

I don't know what the rest of your post means.

 

This is an action. An action can be evaluated as positive or negative. This has nothing to do with thoughts, beliefs or feelings.

You are not apply the rules consistently with all aspects.  You are only doing when it's convenient.  The just is is used in Buddhism, however in Buddhism it's about letting go of attachments. 

[Livemike]

"He says he sexually assaulted me because he didn't know how to cope with me growing up. "

So of all the possible responses to a totally predictable process he went with sexual assault?   HE could have gone with being emotionally distant, talking to other fathers about how they coped, telling you that he would listening and then doing so, running away to the Bahamas or pretending to be in a severely disfiguring accident and then paying a substitute father to pretend to be him under a face-bandage.  Any of these would clearly be better than raping you as a response.  No he didn't sexually assault you because he didn't know how to cope.  He raped you because he could do it, he thought he could get away with it and because benefitted.  And now he is lying about why he did it because he can do it, he thinks he can get away with it and because he benefits from it.  The same behavioural pattern is continuing.  When that happens forgiveness is insane.  Imagine a bank robber who severely mentally traumatised you in this last job.  He's out of prison now and shopping for groceries when you meet and he claims to be reformed and asks your forgiveness.  If he wants that then the stockings in his basket better be for his wife.  

[Slavik]

I would like to say I am sorry to hear what you have gone through.  As far as your questions, all I can do is offer my personal experience (as you and only you can deside what is best for you)

 

-  As a child I had a very abusive father as well (not sexually) but mental abuse and physical as far as hitting etc.  When I grew a bit older, my father split on us all together.  I did see him a few years later, I was 23 at the time.  Well, same story, he felt sorry he missed me etc.  But in reality it was his old self (a coniving abusing garbage of a person) all his (Im sorry) business went right out of the window.  He felt sorry only when I had the power, but when I needed his help the abuse came back and in a greater manner.  It ended with me coming to his business one day and almost smashing his head in ( I know stupid).  Next day I packed all my belongings into a car went for a final visit and told him that he HAS NO SON.  It was a great relieve for me, and not a single person can guild me into having a sort of a relationship with him, and trust me, his sisters (my aunts) have tried.  The whole ordeal ended with me breaking all ties with my father and the whole side of this wretched family all together.  I have released myself, and Im only happier for now allowing to be manipulated back.

[Holo Cene]

Forgiveness is no longer possible. You will be betraying yourself at the core, and ultimately treating yourself as badly as your father did. You will absolve all of the horror and justify it because you feel your pain and anguish is less important than his shame and guilt. You will make amends to assuage his life and leave yours in ruins. What will he do to make amends? How can there be any forgiveness for something so heinous?

[Jeremi]

If you have the time, I think my dream post in this same board may offer some insights into your relationship with your father.

[FattyWatt]

Is it possible to forgive him?

Being that you're sexually abused, I am so sorry, no. Don't even bother giving him a second more of your time or thought.

 

 

Could this be the reason why I have never felt emotional intimacy in relationships?

Yes. No question about it. You were violated, so young, in your most personal (parent) relationship. My guess is, you might relate, that emotional intamacy hurts you, as a (understandable & valid) reaction, to your past traumatic events.

 

 

Is this the reason why I don't trust men (in relationships)?

Yes, as early traumatic events are very "imprinting" / "scarring"  on the brain.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss of feeling & such emotional pains.

 

Good Luck

--Watt

[Jami]

I hope you all know how much I appreciate your insight in such a personal issue. Thank you all for your contribution. I will take what you have said into mind.