They American Way is Why it is a Violent Culture

[Guest e Yer]

One thing about American behavior or if you will, American "Culture", especially among white American males, that irritates me is how they do stupid, dangerous things with cars, motorcycles, bikes, or skateboard around you and don't appear to be accountable for their own personal safety or considerate of the safety of others. On the issue of volunteerism, their irresponsible acts should never have happened. Instead, after their grand, annoying act of stupidity, they carry themselves like: if you want me to stop this, then "make me." It's no wonder that we, or I, have to restraint ourselves from our initial reaction towards violence of wanting to punch them out. It's no wonder that statist will use the "make it a law" soft fascism approach to retaliate or put an end to this behavior. In Mideast, Asian, or Slavic cultures where most are more than 200 years old, people from those nations know better and are considerate. America not having a culture is one of the reasons for so much violence. American lawyers and politicians like to describe the U.S. as a country of laws. That's a way of saying: because we lack a culture to mold our citizens into a standard of conduct, we instead write a a law defining citizen conduct. There are so many laws in the U.S. that you can't help but breaking some going about your daily business of surviving. The virtues of religion can help fill the void where a lack of culture exists. Another cultural quality that it instills is humbleness. Because the U.S. has no culture, its people are arrogant, obnoxious, argumentative, and quick to let you have a piece of their mind (their violent side of the mind) should they become angry. When Americans are uncomfortable, or are forced to wait for service, they start to be nasty and vocal, like the response of an infant. Other cultures will demonstrate virtues of patience, and "hold their tongue." In doing so, unexpected inconveniences can be resolved and put behind and the relationship between customer and service provider can continue to flourish. With American customers, bridges are burnt and never rebuilt. If the U.S. wants a turn around both economically and socially, it would be well worth the time and humiliation to learn culture from those cultures that once were the butt of the jokes of Friday night standup comedians. In doing so, the American "culture of violence" can adopt legitimacy and respect with the other older cultures of the world and the positive improvements in society will follow.

[Barry_diller]

How do you define culture?

[Guest Exceptionalist]

One thing about American behavior or if you will, American "Culture", especially among white American males, that irritates me is how they do stupid, dangerous things with cars, motorcycles, bikes, or skateboard around you and don't appear to be accountable for their own personal safety or considerate of the safety of others.

 

 

Accountability doesn't work beforehand, it means to take responsibility for the effect of one's actions. Different people have different assessments concerning safety. Some fraidy-cat might be overly concerned about certain activities and is noneseless unable don't see the whole picture, so don't wet your pants too much.

[Guest e Yer]

How do you define culture?

Dear Barry_diller: 

It's the ethnic practices of a particular nationality. A good example is the Japanese. In their language, they have may "soft" words to command or request people to do things, like kudasai (means please.) When they ride bikes on the road, they get a regular bike and ride steady along the curbside. They don't dart and cut in and out of traffic. The Americans derive their culture from the British who were invaded by the Vikings. The British had a Viking king, William the Conqueror in 1066. Vikings are renown for their use of force and violence as a quick, efficient, effective solution, real statist. . Much of science applied to military is natural force directed as a weapon. So the use of force as a solution is centerpiece in the American way. A nonviolent society takes people who are disciplined, respectful of others, cooperative and are guided as children by some ethnic cultural practices.

[wdiaz03]

.... Because the U.S. has no culture, its people are ....

 

 

..The Americans derive their culture from the British...

 

Well, which is it?

Could it also be that the US is less homogeneous that other countries and people don't tend to relate to each other as much? It seems these melting pot is bound to cause some friction among the different groups.

[Omega 3 snake oil]

One thing about American behavior... especially among white American males,

American females and non-white Americans don't do these things?

America not having a culture is one of the reasons for so much violence. American lawyers and politicians like to describe the U.S. as a country of laws. That's a way of saying: because we lack a culture to mold our citizens into a standard of conduct, we instead write a a law defining citizen conduct. There are so many laws in the U.S. that you can't help but breaking some going about your daily business of surviving.

I think the point(s) you're trying to make are best highlighted here. For the purposes of this discussion I'd say you're defining culture as a shared value system. I realize you said "It's the ethnic practices of a particular nationality" but I think this is a bit narrow. "Shared value system" is more accurate and nicer-sounding   So, it's the lack of a shared value system that causes social problems such as violence in the US? I think there is some truth here. I'm going to make some leaps in logic, which I think I could qualify but for brevity's sake, won't get into the nitty gritty.Lack of shared values causes breakdown of families and community (or even prevents their cohesion in the first place), which leads to problems such as lack of education, myriad forms of abuse, and thus poverty, violence, and so forth. So yeah, you could say a lack of culture leads to violence.Of course, for this to fly you'd have to go back and demonstrate how exactly America is lacking a culture (not saying whether this is true or false but it needs to be explained in some detail).Sorry to be trite but I think that's all the value this argument has to offer.

[Guest e Yer]

Well, which is it?

Could it also be that the US is less homogeneous that other countries and people don't tend to relate to each other as much? It seems these melting pot is bound to cause some friction among the different groups.

Dear wdiaz: 

My point is a solution on how to reduce or eliminate behaviors that infringe on others people rights to coexist safely and harmoniously. Think of your sphere of friends and how a person's rude behavior wouldn't be tolerated or would lead to that person's dismissal from the group. In an anarchy society, I see people with like values, and behaviors grouping together, like the glue that culture is for many countries. Culture provides the ground rules for coexisting harmoniously. Japan, and Taiwan discourage ownership of guns, and yet they have peaceful, productive societies. The U.S. is plagued with internal violence, and hatred. People in the U.S. are dumbfounded as to the cause. I'm just adding a viewpoint based on my daily working relationships with Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Australians, Canadians, and New Zealanders...and of course White American. In answer to your question: the British and Americans both resorted to violence against Iraqis in the Iraq invasion and occupation.

[JohnN]

I am sorry, I am having a hard time following your first post.  I would like to engage in your discussion but wish to gain clarification as to your interpretation of the "american way".  

[wdiaz03]

Dear wdiaz: 

My point is a solution on how to reduce or eliminate behaviors that infringe on others people rights to coexist safely and harmoniously. Think of your sphere of friends and how a person's rude behavior wouldn't be tolerated or would lead to that person's dismissal from the group. In an anarchy society, I see people with like values, and behaviors grouping together, like the glue that culture is for many countries. Culture provides the ground rules for coexisting harmoniously. Japan, and Taiwan discourage ownership of guns, and yet they have peaceful, productive societies. The U.S. is plagued with internal violence, and hatred. People in the U.S. are dumbfounded as to the cause. I'm just adding a viewpoint based on my daily working relationships with Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Australians, Canadians, and New Zealanders...and of course White American. In answer to your question: the British and Americans both resorted to violence against Iraqis in the Iraq invasion and occupation.

 

What was the American society like in the past? in the 1950s and before? could it be that the government has gradually caused society to be what it is now?

 

And are you implying that the government should discourage gun ownership?

[Mike Fleming]

 

So, it's the lack of a shared value system that causes social problems such as violence in the US? I think there is some truth here. I'm going to make some leaps in logic, which I think I could qualify but for brevity's sake, won't get into the nitty gritty.Lack of shared values causes breakdown of families and community (or even prevents their cohesion in the first place), which leads to problems such as lack of education, myriad forms of abuse, and thus poverty, violence, and so forth. So yeah, you could say a lack of culture leads to violence. 

 

When you say lack of shared values though, what exactly does that mean?  

 

Lets say people had the shared value that property rights could not be violated  (thereby invalidating taxation, war, etc).  I think that would lead to social cohesion.  Unfortunately, this doesn't exist anywhere (to my knowledge) and in my opinion the resulting problems from property right violations get blamed on Jews, illegal immigrants, multiculturalism, etc which then leads to a further disintegration as people start to form cliques for protection.

 

Culture is pretty meaningless imo.  I think it is used by people to invalidate people who are different to them. 

[Omega 3 snake oil]

When you say lack of shared values though, what exactly does that mean?  

 

Lets say people had the shared value that property rights could not be violated  (thereby invalidating taxation, war, etc).  I think that would lead to social cohesion.  Unfortunately, this doesn't exist anywhere (to my knowledge) and in my opinion the resulting problems from property right violations get blamed on Jews, illegal immigrants, multiculturalism, etc which then leads to a further disintegration as people start to form cliques for protection.

I don't see the logical flow here... 

[_LiveFree_]

This seems to be a case of see only what you want to see. Japanese culture is so sexually repressed that little girls in school uniforms are considered highly sexually desired. And you can buy used women's panties out of a vending machine. They can make porn, but the naughty bits have to be blurred out. American culture, whatever that is, is not perfect and can't ever be perfect. Neither is any other culture. I don't think adopting one cult in spite of another is the way to go. Culture is the social norm that allows people to commit evil acts without reprisal. 

 

How about instead of trading one culture, one religion, one government for another, we just stop using them altogether. 

 

I'd like to see all people behave courteously toward one another and love themselves enough that soiled panties hanging in a vending machine arouse no desire.  

[MrCapitalism]

 

It's no wonder that we, or I, have to restraint ourselves from our initial reaction towards violence of wanting to punch them out.

You feel a need to initiate violence against these people, because they are peacefully behaving in a way that you do not like?

[Mike Fleming]

I don't see the logical flow here... 

 

Violation of property rights leads to social problems.  Is that the part you are struggling with?

 

Or that people look for scapegoats for social problems rather than addressing the core issues?

[Omega 3 snake oil]

Violation of property rights leads to social problems.  Is that the part you are struggling with?

Yes, but there's more.

 

When you say lack of shared values though, what exactly does that mean?  

 

Lets say people had the shared value that property rights could not be violated  (thereby invalidating taxation, war, etc).  I think that would lead to social cohesion.  Unfortunately, this doesn't exist anywhere (to my knowledge) and in my opinion the resulting problems from property right violations get blamed on Jews, illegal immigrants, multiculturalism, etc which then leads to a further disintegration as people start to form cliques for protection.

I would say social cohesion exists to varying degrees in a handful of very nice places (read: expense to live). People who live in such places, say Monaco for example, probably enjoy a great deal of what might be called social cohesion and thus a nice helping of what we call culture. Not saying this example occurs more often than the scenario you give, the one where property rights are not upheld, resulting in a loss of social cohesion, but I'm thinking there are some wealthier communities/sub cultures/cultures who enjoy very high standards of living and so could be argued they have both a shared set of values and thus social cohesion. Can't imagine why that would be unthinkable, or why that would matter for the purposes of this converation

 

By your first sentence it sounds like you intend to invalidate my argument at least partly based on my not having a definiton of shared values. Then you give an example of one type of shared value, suggest that this particular shared value never has never worked out, then show its not working out as being the cause of social problems. Yeah?

 

 

Or that people look for scapegoats for social problems rather than addressing the core issues?

 

No, but I think this really gets away from my argument, the one about the core issues (at least what I see them as)

 

Culture is pretty meaningless imo.  I think it is used by people to invalidate people who are different to them. 

Pretty contentious. Culture does a bit more than that, and you're implying it doesn't.

[Mike Fleming]

Wealthier communities must by definition have strong property rights.  Otherwise there is no reason why the community as a whole would be wealthy if there is an ability to steal from people.  You can certainly have wealthy people in a community without strong property rights, but the community as a whole is very unlikely to be wealthy.   And that disparity in wealth leads to all kinds of social frictions which usually get blamed on "cultural differences".  

 

It's funny how people can get along when people are getting what they need and want.   It's like, for example, when you have a free market, it is not a good idea to discriminate against people because your competitors who don't discriminate will do better than you by having a larger customer base.    And then you get to talk to and interact with people from different cultures and you find out they aren't really that different at all.  They have the same needs, many of the same desires, etc.   We are all human.  So-called culture is really just a way to divide people.