Peaceful parenting won't discourage drug use?

[TheUKLibertarian]

At the end of this short Steven Pinker clip he says that on almost any personality trait reserachers measure it turns out that genetics accounts for a % larger than 0% and smaller than 100% that parenting is a small % from 0-10% and that something else (culture, peer group etc) accounts for the rest. He says this holds even with questions like 'how much tv a week do you watch' and 'how many cigarettes do you smoke'.

 

Or to put it another way: the amount of drugs (cigarettes) your child takes is influenced by your parenting almost 0% and perhaps as small as 10% on the high end.

 

Of course I would still aim to parent peacefully and kindly because I think it is a worthy end in and of itself and I don't do it because I want my kids to turn out a specific way as such rather I just want them to have the best childhood experience day to day as possible.

 

However, I am finding it hard to square what pinker is saying here with things Stef talks about in the show. I've heard him say things like "My daughter will simply never have a drug problem" and other confident statements. I want this to be true because it is an empowering belief to hold but videos like this Steven Pinker one 'shake my faith' so to speak. Make me feel that it won't matter that much what I do once my children grow up they will simply do what they'll do and I can't protect them against really bad decisions like smoking or whatever.

 

Just wondering if other parents here have given thought to this topic and if so I'd love to hear them!

[TheRobin]

I don't know, but form what you tell me he already contradicted himself when he thinks that parents are not responsible for what culture or peers they expose their kids to. Let alone, that kids who have a good and happy relationship with their parents would barely want to hang around peers who are abusive and unempathetic. But out of curiousity, what are Pinker's arguments for the causality here exactly? Like, what exactly makes a child hang out with certain peers? Or does he just ignore that questtion altogether and claims it to be a sort of "fixed and uncaused or random" thing that no one has any influence over anyway? I mean it's very easy to just pick a random variable in a complex situation and make a statstical correlation to other variables in the same situation, but that doesn't really explain or proof the causality of anything.

[DGB]

I'd ask him if culture shapes us, then what shapes culture.

[FreedomPhilosophy]

 

However, I am finding it hard to square what pinker is saying here with things Stef talks about in the show. I've heard him say things like "My daughter will simply never have a drug problem" and other confident statements. I want this to be true because it is an empowering belief to hold but videos like this Steven Pinker one 'shake my faith' so to speak. Make me feel that it won't matter that much what I do once my children grow up they will simply do what they'll do and I can't protect them against really bad decisions like smoking or whatever.

 

Just wondering if other parents here have given thought to this topic and if so I'd love to hear them!

 

Pinkers claims seem to concur with what I have read.The most significant factor in developing the average childs personality is their peer group and then genetics. Parental behaviour is one of the smaller factors unless the parenting style is unusually abusive or neglectful.Of course as parents you can have a big influence on who your children grow up with, i.e. picking better neighbourhoods and places where there is less/no drug culture and so forth. It's worth considering that other free ranging primates have developed an appreciation for psychotropic drugs, it is dubious to claim that a drug habit = bad parenting, primates are naturally curious and experimental organisms.Smoking and drinking habits do have a genetic factor.Further reading http://www.amazon.com/The-Nurture-Assumption-Children-Revised/dp/1439101655/ - by no means an exhaustive or unbiased piece of work but worth a read. I also suggest reading the reviews to this book - the better informed authors reveal many of the weaknesses. 

[TheRobin]

The most significant factor in developing the average childs personality is their peer group and then genetics. Parental behaviour is one of the smaller factors unless the parenting style is unusually abusive or neglectful.

 

 

Well, again, where is the cause of what peer group they chose? Are you gonna argue that it's completely random? And same with which genes are actually active.And to top it off, given that most parenting nowadays is abusve and/or neglectful to some degree: What standard do these studies have for "unusual abusive or neglectful"? To me it seems a lot like saying, during the dark ages, that dying of the plague was genetic, just because it was so prevalent no one thought of it as something taht was caused by specific behaviour, so it just got downgraded to random chance, so that the powers that be needn't changing.Or like saying "Of all the kids we that regularly get tortured, only some start taking drugs, and it's mostly related to genes and peers." That might be true in a sense, that peers and genes are the tipping point, but none of it would matter if there was no torture in the first place, and given that the standard for parenting is still quite low I don't see how any study that doesn't have an independant health-standrd that isn't simply the current cultural norm can claim any explanatory power whatsoever.

[FreedomPhilosophy]

Well, again, where is the cause of what peer group they chose? Are you gonna argue that it's completely random? And same with which genes are actually active. 

 

Income has a big influence on where children grow up and thus their peer group. There have been some twin studies that reveal how genes affect personality.As for the degree of abuse/neglect present and their influence, I do not think these have been well enough studied to get precision. As Judith Harris points out genetics are often not accounted for in behavioural research. Judith Harris (and perhaps Pinker - if his work is similarly argued) also present weak arguments though.I've not studied this topic a lot so far, but much of what I see claimed is based on weak research. 

[StevenRichards]

I think Brené Brown is onto something with the theory that shame causes self-destructive behavior.  If she's right, we should be able to have quite a bit of an effect on how shame resiliant our children become.  This might help some of the parents out there: Shame Resilience Model by Brene

[Lians]

First off, thank you for taking the time to research such an important topic.

 

I'd question the approach these researches have taken in gathering the data. Genes can turn on and off based on one's environment (look up epigenetics), so I don't know how easy it is to create controlled experiments that take into account this kind of deviation. Given the complexity of the subject, they'll also have to rely on the notoriously unreliable self-reporting. Finally, you'd need some fairly conclusive evidence to overturn decades of work in psychology. If this research was credible, psychologists from across the world would be all over it.

 

When you want to get credible information about drug addiction, you should go to experts like Gabor Mate. Have a look at this video if you find the topic of addiction interesting:

 

 

He's got some popular books out and Stef has also done an interview with him.

 

Peaceful parenting only says that you shouldn't use violence, abandon or threaten to withdrawal care and affection from your children. In the absence of these "tools" you get to be creative about your approach. Just about the most creative and effective tool then becomes negotiation. You can, of course, make the case against drugs to your children. However, if your kids get to a point where they develop substance abuse problems, you have done something wrong as a parent. The biggest problem then becomes your parenting, not drug use in itself.

[Ahrramin]

It's not the morphine, it's the size of the cage: Rat Park experiment upturns conventional wisdom about addiction

[LanceD]

Pinkers claims seem to concur with what I have read.The most significant factor in developing the average childs personality is their peer group and then genetics. Parental behaviour is one of the smaller factors unless the parenting style is unusually abusive or neglectful.Of course as parents you can have a big influence on who your children grow up with, i.e. picking better neighbourhoods and places where there is less/no drug culture and so forth. It's worth considering that other free ranging primates have developed an appreciation for psychotropic drugs, it is dubious to claim that a drug habit = bad parenting, primates are naturally curious and experimental organisms.Smoking and drinking habits do have a genetic factor.Further reading http://www.amazon.com/The-Nurture-Assumption-Children-Revised/dp/1439101655/ - by no means an exhaustive or unbiased piece of work but worth a read. I also suggest reading the reviews to this book - the better informed authors reveal many of the weaknesses.

This research is very reassuring to me as a peaceful parent! My wife and I make a point to treat our child as an equal. His opinions, desires and needs are of equal importance to our opinions, desires and needs. So as far as he is concerned we are his peers.So this research says that as my son's peer I have the most influence over how he develops as a person. That is very encouraging indeed!Sarcasm aside. My point is pretty simple. We live in a world where most children spend a significant majority of their time surrounded by peers. This creates a situation where a child's bond with the parents is eroded and replaced with peer bond relationships. So of course children are being influenced more by peers. Children model what is around them and their parents surround them with their peers! Opposite to most kids his age my son spends over 90% of his time with my wife, myself or both of us and it is plainly obvious in his behavior. He's a bit bossy, he got that from mom.He has a bit of a foul mouth, got that from me. He is very thoughtful and goes out of his way to do nice things for the people he likes. We both model thisHe is very firm in standing up for himself without being aggressive. Again from both of us. I could list things like this forever. Pointing out all of the good and bad and show you exactly where it came from. However the point is your child will be most influenced by whoever they spend the most time with and develop the deepest bonds with. Make sure you are that person and that you model the behavior you want and you'll see in your children what I see in mine.

[Duderio]

goodbye