expressing empathy

[MattGrimes]

This is something I have always struggled with, and I've got some better idea through the podcasts I've listened to thus far, but I still just really don't know what to say.

 

Whenever someone tells me something really personal and frighetning/evil/etc about their childhood, how do i respond? I very often feel a lot of empathy—picturing the scene in my head and even getting choked up or whatever it may be—but I just don't know what a proper way of responding is to both acknowledge them and support them in their exploration/growth.

 

I've been trying to work on how Stef responds on the call in shows by helping to denormalize—'im so sorry you experienced that' 'that is truly terrible'—but it often feels forced and inauthentic. Also with my friend who mostly talk about this stuff with, she acknowledges that she had a terrible childhood; does that change how I should respond? Is it alsways good to 'denormalize' regardless of whether they have already denormalized?

 

Any suggestions on what to say or how to figure out what to say in a situation?

[Lians]

This is a very interesting question, Matt. Can you tell us a little more about the feelings that are beneath your concern? Is it a fear that the other person will perceive your empathy as disingenuous? That you'll say the wrong things and mess things up?

[Kevin Beal]

I know what you mean, totally. It's really difficult for me to formulate a response, but I have a couple thoughts that could be helpful.

 

The most helpful thing (as you suggested) is to de-normalize it and to help them see it by responding to it for the immorality that it was.

 

Something you could say is "you know, I feel very uncomfortable saying this but I think it's important that I do. What happened to you is terrible and I'm so sorry" or something like that. I don't think it even necessarily needs to include "I'm so sorry that happened to you" as long as you are showing support to that part of themselves that knows it was abusive, the part they would hopefully connect with.

 

I don't know that there is any one way to go about it.

[Pepin]

It may help to think of what not to do, or to think of what a therapist would say. I think listening closely and asking questions is pretty essential. 

 

What I tend to do is to express how I'd feel in that situation and might extrapolate a little. For instance: my friend was telling me about how after his parents got a divorce that they tended to talk back about the other with him. In response I said something like "that must be really tough, there is this sort of instinctual love children have for their parents, and this not only puts you in an odd situation that you have no control over, but it also really screws with your ability to have a strong relationship relationship with either of them".

 

What I wouldn't worry about is how it feels at the moment. This is an area that I've had a tremendous amount of issues with, especially in regard to giving myself empathy, so I can't expect the process to feel natural or comfortable at all since so much of my life was spent not flexing this muscle. It is like if you were injured in an accident and were in a bed for four years. When you finally start to make your way out of bed, walking is not only going to be extremely difficult, but it is going to feel very: stiff, strange, and deliberate. Whenever you begin to use a new muscle, you have to put a lot of conscious deliberation into every small move you take, and I'd argue that showing empathy is just the same.

 

In my own experience in sharing my experience with a close friend about my childhood experiences, he told me that what my grandmother did to me makes him angry. I felt really good when he told me this, not sure what the feeling would be called exactly, but it was really quite positive and stuck with me.

[MattGrimes]

This is a very interesting question, Matt. Can you tell us a little more about the feelings that are beneath your concern? Is it a fear that the other person will perceive your empathy as disingenuous? That you'll say the wrong things and mess things up?

 

That's a very good question. Saying the wrong thing and 'messing things up' (ie further supporting their false belief that what happened to them was acceptable or normal etc) is a definitely a concern . I want to truly help those that share these things with me, and I don't want to foster 'false self' emotions; I've definitely said the 'wrong' thing in the past before and I've felt guilt for it. The example that comes to mind is when a friend told me she thought that she had been molested as a child, and a few days later I mentioned a statistic on the frequency of molestation/sexual abuse in women (I can't remember what the statistic is but it's high), in hopes of making them feel better but later realized that It was probably the worst thing I could say in that it further helps them to normalize the behavior and believe it is okay for that to happen. Back a few years when I was younger I would use the 'everything is going to be okay' line, but I see now (past few years) that while they trusted me and thus is soothed them this is only more heroin, so to speak.

 

'fear that they will perceive your empathy as disengious'. Maybe a little but I don't think that's too much of a factor. I would think they wouldn't share it with me if they didn't know that I truly did care, however the fact that I am afraid to say the wrong thing and thus sometimes just don't say anything is something that I fear causes them to think I don't care.

 

Just for a little more backstory: My biggest thing Is that I want to help people, but in the past I've put so much effort in with no sign of any positive change, that it caused me to get worn down, feel angry, and kind of give up. This is what resulted in the 'not really saying anything' kind of responses, but more commonly just not even engaging in conversations at all. I have one friend, the one whom talking to caused me to write this post, who I still talk deeply with frequently, but my few other friends and acquantences who have kind of 'clung' to me because they think (or so it seems) that I can save them or fix them has caused me to detach from the relationships because it's so draining. I kind of have this mental image of a soldier squad in a desert and all my squad mates are wounded and I can either sit there with them and assage their fears, or I can move forward and come back with help (if I find it). Basically I don't want to, or more so, can't while still having enough enery to work on myself and get all my school, work, etc stuff down to put in a lot of effort to helping my friends when there is no sign that it will actually be helpful to them. Saving all the souls of those around me in not a major concern or goal of mine, but it is something that stays in the back of my mind.

 

But this post is, mostly anyway, about my one friend whom I do have a close relationship with (She has been in my life for almost 7 years now; we've both seen eachother at our worst and have had a very bumpy relationship),  whom I've been able to help to grow to a decent degree (and whom has helped me grow tremendously; I probably wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for her) but have also hurt in the past and I just want to be sure that I am actually helping and not hurting.

 

 

 

I know what you mean, totally. It's really difficult for me to formulate a response, but I have a couple thoughts that could be helpful.

 

The most helpful thing (as you suggested) is to de-normalize it and to help them see it by responding to it for the immorality that it was.

 

Something you could say is "you know, I feel very uncomfortable saying this but I think it's important that I do. What happened to you is terrible and I'm so sorry" or something like that. I don't think it even necessarily needs to include "I'm so sorry that happened to you" as long as you are showing support to that part of themselves that knows it was abusive, the part they would hopefully connect with.

 

I don't know that there is any one way to go about it.

 

Yeah I think I've got this down decently well. I know that there isn't only one way to go about it but I do feel like only de-normalizing it is kind of 'text-book' so to speak. In stuff like the Call In Shows it seems to, by itself, be a pretty sufficient answer, but It just feels like in relationships that are much more in-depth (ie someone you've known for years) that there is more to be said.

 

 

It may help to think of what not to do, or to think of what a therapist would say. I think listening closely and asking questions is pretty essential. 

 

What I tend to do is to express how I'd feel in that situation and might extrapolate a little. For instance: my friend was telling me about how after his parents got a divorce that they tended to talk back about the other with him. In response I said something like "that must be really tough, there is this sort of instinctual love children have for their parents, and this not only puts you in an odd situation that you have no control over, but it also really screws with your ability to have a strong relationship relationship with either of them".

 

What I wouldn't worry about is how it feels at the moment. This is an area that I've had a tremendous amount of issues with, especially in regard to giving myself empathy, so I can't expect the process to feel natural or comfortable at all since so much of my life was spent not flexing this muscle. It is like if you were injured in an accident and were in a bed for four years. When you finally start to make your way out of bed, walking is not only going to be extremely difficult, but it is going to feel very: stiff, strange, and deliberate. Whenever you begin to use a new muscle, you have to put a lot of conscious deliberation into every small move you take, and I'd argue that showing empathy is just the same.

 

In my own experience in sharing my experience with a close friend about my childhood experiences, he told me that what my grandmother did to me makes him angry. I felt really good when he told me this, not sure what the feeling would be called exactly, but it was really quite positive and stuck with me.

 

Definitely agree, but the issue is that I'm not sure what a therapist would say. I'm usually pretty good with the questions in general but when it comes to really heavy statements I get concerned about whether I'm dealing with them correctly and I am not sure that the socratic questioning on the usual conversation is so good for that stuff. What do you think?

 

Your response to the divorce example provided some ideas in my head. Definitely asking them how they feel, and not only denormalizing but trying to tell them how I'd feel in the situation is key. Even then though I feel like it would come out kind of emotion-less, but, as you said, It will take practice due to being something that I have never really used.

 

Also I think a key thing I need to do is get more in touch with my own childhood which would (I would think) make me more able to relate.

 

Thanks for your insightful responses guys

[Lians]

Thank you for the honesty! I really applaud your desire to help people!

 

Something struck me as odd while reading your post. You seem to have a difficulty in trusting yourself, but at the same time, you want to be an effective force of change in people's lives. That's quite paralysing, isn't it? "I want to help you, but I'm afraid I might hurt you."

 

In my experience, these kinds of paralyses tend to occur when genuine desires meet inflicted mythologies within us. It's a clash of competing interests. A tug of war even! All you need to do is follow the benefit. You probably already know where these inflicted mythologies come from. Who in your history didn't benefit from you expressing or acting on your desires? Did you have anyone hurt you while claiming to do something for your own benefit? These are important questions to ask yourself.

 

From an evolutionary standpoint, babies that couldn't express or act on their desires/needs wouldn't survive very long. The "I don't trust the authenticity of my desires" gene was wiped off very early in our development as a species. This means that at some point in our lives we all learn not to trust ourselves.

[Omega 3 snake oil]

good topic and responses. Slightly different angle:  could people be hesitant about showing empathy because we've internalized the fact that our culture tends to associate coldness, selfishness, and even cruelty with success and happiness? oversimplifying, but the logic may go: I want to be happy. In order to be happy I need to be successful. In order to be successful I need to be perceived as powerful, supremely confident, our culture's ideal of cool. Showing real empathy may diminish the facade just described by requiring one to lower their defences in order to interact with and potentially care about another human being. Just a thought, I think it's complimentary to every written so far.Also just heard a guest on Stefan's podcast who's from China say there are laws in place to discourage people from helping others hit by cars and left at the side of the road. The police will arrive and say , "Why were you helping them?" which perversely leads to an accusation the bystander/witness was actually involved in the accident ("why else would you be helping them?") and the person winds up facing fines and jail time. Crazy to us, by the Chinese government isn't that stupid. The caller from there said the Chinese government wants badly to discourage people from helping strangers, and assuming the story is true.Does our society have a similar, subtler policy in place? A Policy which in my opinion is more effective and more pernicious because it is more ubiquitous, achieved mainly through control of mass media and education (there are many, many, many examples of this). And so people wind up lacking empathy which they see as wrong but are at a loss as to why this is the case.Just a thought, sorry for the slight tangent. I just realized I offered no advice to the TS and this is an advice thread. Be right back...

[Pepin]

good topic and responses. Slightly different angle:  could people be hesitant about showing empathy because we've internalized the fact that our culture tends to associate coldness, selfishness, and even cruelty with success and happiness? oversimplifying, but the logic may go: I want to be happy. In order to be happy I need to be successful. In order to be successful I need to be perceived as powerful, supremely confident, our culture's ideal of cool. Showing real empathy may diminish the facade just described by requiring one to lower their defences in order to interact with and potentially care about another human being. Just a thought, I think it's complimentary to every written so far.

 

If the statement "you can't express empathy to others if you can't express it towards yourself" is true, then the refusal to express empathy for others is fundamentally a projection of the person's internal circumstance. What I think you are describing is the sort of rationalization that occurs which is projected onto others.

 

For instance, if you talk about the damage done to you through spanking most will respond to it by saying "I was spanked and I ended up fine", "it may have not been good for me, but it is something you just have to live with", "it was good for me, it gave me character, people should be spanked more", "it really has no effect on my life so I don't know what you are talking about", "first world problems, do you know there are starving kids in Africa". All of the responses are really rather horrific in that they not only ignore the plight of a victim, but they also degrade the wounds of the victim by telling them that they aren't wounded. I'd put forward that this degradation is intended to create shame in the victim so that the victim stops talking about because the subject creates a large vacuum of anxiety with must be managed externally.

 

If you think about how most people react to self-help material, there is a sort of lament towards it, almost like the idea of reading a book about the subject is silly. There is a bit of an idea that getting help in psychological areas is a sign of weakness, which I think also connects to this idea.

 

To expand a bit on the culture idea, I think that many people aren't really open to these discussions and general and try to avoid them because of these factors. I think behind closed doors these people would be fine expressing empathy, but when in a more public setting they fear attack for showing empathy

 

Just my thoughts on your thoughts.

[MrCapitalism]

 

picturing the scene in my head and even getting choked up or whatever it may be

I think a great response might be to express your genuine feelings in the moment to them.

[MattGrimes]

Thank you for the honesty! I really applaud your desire to help people!

 

Something struck me as odd while reading your post. You seem to have a difficulty in trusting yourself, but at the same time, you want to be an effective force of change in people's lives. That's quite paralysing, isn't it? "I want to help you, but I'm afraid I might hurt you."

 

In my experience, these kinds of paralyses tend to occur when genuine desires meet inflicted mythologies within us. It's a clash of competing interests. A tug of war even! All you need to do is follow the benefit. You probably already know where these inflicted mythologies come from. Who in your history didn't benefit from you expressing or acting on your desires? Did you have anyone hurt you while claiming to do something for your own benefit? These are important questions to ask yourself.

 

From an evolutionary standpoint, babies that couldn't express or act on their desires/needs wouldn't survive very long. The "I don't trust the authenticity of my desires" gene was wiped off very early in our development as a species. This means that at some point in our lives we all learn not to trust ourselves.

 

Sorry for the late response been really busy with finals. I've been thinking on and off about your comment, and, maybe i'm missing something, but I don't think it is as you suspect (of course I'm open to further exploration of it).

 

I perceive that I am quite good at trusting my instincts and knowing when I am right or wrong in a situation. However it is interesting that that is not how you perceived it. Could you maybe elaborate a little more on what gave that impression?

 

In regards to your next point, my mom has always been very controlling and oppressive for lack of a better term (ie she is blind to the emotions of others when they conflict with her beliefs of how things or people are, will just push her position until the person submits, and is the exact opposite of curious), and also with my ex-girlfriend (the friend I was referring to in my OP) I have jumped-the-gun so to speak on things, but recoiled when finding that I totally mispercieved the situation (and thus it has caused me to second guess claims/assertions, but only under the pretext that I may not have all the facts). I am fairly certain that that is mostly out of the fact that she is very often represses her emotions and gives the illusion that things are okay, or are a certain way, and thus I cannot accurately interpret the 'cues' so the speak. But this, i think, is resolved quite well by being more curious, and obviously that I am not dating her and thus have less 'skin in the game' so the speak. In regards to my mom, the scar tissue manifest itself more in that I don't wish to get involved in conversations (or relationships) with hostile, controlling, dominating people, or when I do I just 'submit' to get them to go away because I know that there isn't anything I could say to get them to change there mind; I am a more passive and quiet person. However I don't think it causes me to question my own beliefs or second-guess myself.

 

In regards to the topic at hand, as it was written in regards to my ex-girlfriend, I think the second-guessing due to my jumping-to-conclusions-ness in the past is part of it, but it think it's more of simply that I just was never taught how to expresss empathy, and,likely  more significant, that I've never been good at feeling empathy for others (surely much better than most people, but not to the level that a therapist or many on here are capable of). I have gotten much better over the years though, and have had a large spike since I originally wrote this post, and it has helped significantly (Had a conversation with a friend today and I think i did quite well). I think my biggest (or at least another significant) issue is that it's very hard for me to see how what I say will be perceived. Most of the issues that I talk with my friends about I have never gone through myself, and thus 'putting myself in their shoes' and trying to think what the most positive/productive thing for me to hear, if i were in their situation, is difficult. I think also a part of it is that I've never had a 'mentor' or really anyone who could 'teach me', so to speak—I've always kind of been at the forefront of growth in regards to the people in my life (everyone in my life being a big bundle of irrational falseself, barring my ex-girlfriend) and have had very little empathy towards my emotions, thus making it hard for me to see what worked for me and then be able to adapt that to others (just realized this while typing). Of course, Stef being a beacon of light, and now that I am 700 podcasts in, has exponentially increased the rate at what I am understanding myself, those around me, and the world and has helped tremendously in these areas.

 

With all that said, I think what I need to work on most is 1. first being able to develop more empathy for others 2. being around more people who are able to be empathetic towards me (as you guys are) so that I can better adapt that to those in my own life.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I think a great response might be to express your genuine feelings in the moment to them.

 

It's weird that I knew this, and I think someone above might have even said it, but it didn't click. If I am thinking 'I don't know what to say' then I should say that. Duh haha. thanks!

[Lians]

Don't take anything I say as truth! After all, I know very little about you. My posts are more of a guideline on how I think about these issues.

 

If I had to pinpoint a specific part of your previous post, what gave me the aforementioned impression, it would be this one:

 

I want to truly help those that share these things with me, and I don't want to foster 'false self' emotions; I've definitely said the 'wrong' thing in the past before and I've felt guilt for it.

 

Guilt comes out of violating an accepted and understood internal rule. A lack of knowledge about why you violated a rule tends to breed distrust. I may be totally wrong here, but that's my experience. When you combine distrust with a desire to act ("I want to truly help..."), you get the tug of war I mentioned earlier.

 

Your ex-girlfriend keeps coming up a lot in your posts yet you haven't said much about your history with her. Why did you break up with her? Why did you decide to remain friends afterwards? Does she know that you're struggling with expressing empathy? If not, why not?

 

I recommend you examine the obvious causes before concluding that this is a systemic issue within you. What if you're surrounded by false-self-driven people who knock you down every time you try to express genuine empathy? How can you ever learn if you have to apologize and self-attack every time you make a mistake? To give you a sports metaphor, can you imagine having a team mate that yells at you and threatens to leave the game every time you make a mistake? How would you feel? I'm exaggerating, but I think you get the picture.

 

I'm not saying any of the above is true in your case. However, it's important that you consider it before focusing on your self-work.

[MattGrimes]

Don't take anything I say as truth! After all, I know very little about you. My posts are more of a guideline on how I think about these issues.

 

If I had to pinpoint a specific part of your previous post, what gave me the aforementioned impression, it would be this one:

 

 

Guilt comes out of violating an accepted and understood internal rule. A lack of knowledge about why you violated a rule tends to breed distrust. I may be totally wrong here, but that's my experience. When you combine distrust with a desire to act ("I want to truly help..."), you get the tug of war I mentioned earlier.

 

Your ex-girlfriend keeps coming up a lot in your posts yet you haven't said much about your history with her. Why did you break up with her? Why did you decide to remain friends afterwards? Does she know that you're struggling with expressing empathy? If not, why not?

 

I recommend you examine the obvious causes before concluding that this is a systemic issue within you. What if you're surrounded by false-self-driven people who knock you down every time you try to express genuine empathy? How can you ever learn if you have to apologize and self-attack every time you make a mistake? To give you a sports metaphor, can you imagine having a team mate that yells at you and threatens to leave the game every time you make a mistake? How would you feel? I'm exaggerating, but I think you get the picture.

 

I'm not saying any of the above is true in your case. However, it's important that you consider it before focusing on your self-work.

 

 

Maybe guilt was a poor word to use. It was more of that I thought I was writing them a prescription, so to speak, that would help them, and then later found out that it was harmful. I didn't beat myself up or anything—it doesn't plague me—but when I recall it I feel bad about it. Would you call that guilt?

 

My history with my ex is very complicated and there is much of it that I have yet to understand as well. We dated for 4.5 years (Age 15 to 20) and broke up 2 years ago, and I don't think that much of it would make sense without spending a few hours writing about my teenage years, my relationship with her, and also divulging a lot of information about her own situation that I don't particularly feel comfortable with doing (especially since I told her about FDR and she was very interested and I would not want her to come on the boards and see that I was telling people her life story). To answer your questions though: A) She broke up with me. B)Calling us 'friends' is not particularly accurate but it was useful to avoid having to dilute the topic at hand with extraneous information. We talk on occassion—We talked a lot in the last month, the most we have talked since our break up—and she is the only rational person in my life who is interested in self growth. There is still a lot of un-processed conflicts from our relationship, and right now we are taking a break from talking—as of yesterday—as she is working on her own past and her own childhood right now, putting our issues and relationship on hold. C) Absolutely. I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated, but that was one of the dysfunctions I brought to the relationship.

 

>I recommend you examine the obvious causes before concluding that this is a systemic issue within you.I don't understand this statement. Could you elaborate a little?

 

>What if you're surrounded by false-self-driven people who knock you down every time you try to express genuine empathy? How can you ever learn if you have to apologize and self-attack every time you make a mistake? To give you a sports metaphor, can you imagine having a team mate that yells at you and threatens to leave the game every time you make a mistake? How would you feel? I'm exaggerating, but I think you get the picture.

 

The only peeople I have any meaningful relationship with is is my ex, and, after a talk today, potentitally another friend. I have never been put down, that I can think of, for expressing empathy. I have spent most of my life alone, mostly by choice (that's a whole nother topic), and I think it's mostly, if not almost entirely, that I never learned to feel it in the first place. My relationship with my ex was the first time in my life I ever cared about someone else.

 

Also another factor that I connected today was that I spent most of my teenage years being the token sarcastic asshole, something that I particularly enjoyed, and still do enjoy on certain levels—thought it is a shriveled carcus of what is used to be; previously much more destructive and elitist and now mostly just playful—and thus I think it conflicts to some level with my desire to help people. I think this is a significant factor in where, when I do feel empathy, I have trouble expressing it because it conflicts with the persona I have set up for myself for many years (Just realized this—I think it is, if not the primary factor, at least a major factor in the issue presented in the OP).

 

 

Again, thanks for your interest and responses!

[Lians]

Maybe guilt was a poor word to use. It was more of that I thought I was writing them a prescription, so to speak, that would help them, and then later found out that it was harmful. I didn't beat myself up or anything—it doesn't plague me—but when I recall it I feel bad about it. Would you call that guilt?

 

There are two feelings that people often mix up - guilt and shame. Both feelings involve the violation of internalized rules. With guilt, the rules are accepted and well-understood, while shame involves inflicted, often violently, rules. The distinction between the two is quite important because shame is an outgrowth of wrong done unto you, and guilt is an indicator of wrong done by you. Here's a podcast that you may find useful:

 

FDR1420: Shame Vs. Guilt

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1420_shame_versus_guilt.mp3

 

I don't understand this statement. Could you elaborate a little?

 

I'll give you a metaphor to, hopefully, make that statement a bit more clear. You suddenly feel a sharp pain in your finger and immediately go to the doctor because you're afraid that you pinched a nerve, causing it to randomly misfire pain signals to your brain. Treating such an issue might require painful physiotherapy or even surgery. You go to the doctor and he tells you that you cut your finger while cooking.

 

While obviously ridiculous, this scenario illustrates the value of examining the obvious external causes before settling for a more complicated diagnosis. To give you a personal example, for many years I thought I had a difficulty in expressing my emotions. It turned out that I was simply surrounded by people who would attack me, overtly and covertly, if I did that. Can you guess what happened when I finally started expressing my emotions? They started to attack me even more. I had come up with countless complicated theories only to knock them all down with one obvious explanation. Arriving at an obvious answer usually marks the beginning of a new journey. With me, the issue changed from "difficulty in expressing emotions" to "why was I surrounded by such people?" This was a deeper and more complicated problem that yielded equally surprising results.

 

Again, make sure you don't confuse my story with what's going on with you. One of the best ways to eliminate possible hypotheses and derive more accurate ones is to apply the Socratic method. It's a slow, iterative process that, depending on your proficiency, may take hours, days or even weeks. In its simplest form, it's a method of coming up with counter-examples, in the form of questions, to knowledge claims. You start with a poorly shaped and flabby argument and continuously apply the chisel of reason to carve out everything that's not a trim and fit argument. I'll give you an example/starting point:

 

Initial claim (IC): I have a difficulty in expressing empathy.

Question (Q): So you never express empathy when you're around other people?

Answer (A): No, I actually expressed genuine empathy when I was with Bob.

Q: Why could you do it when you were with Bob?

A: Bob is a man.

Adjusting the claim (AC): I have a difficulty in expressing empathy when I'm around women.

Q: Are there any men around whom you couldn't express empathy? Are there any women around whom you could express empathy?

...

 

You keep going until you nail down the precise definition of the argument. Once you have the precise definition (you can't come up with any counter-examples), you have "arrived at truth." The process doesn't have to be this rigid, but it's helpful to keep it formal until you internalize it.

 

Just realized this—I think it [the sarcasm and elitism] is, if not the primary factor, at least a major factor in the issue presented in the OP).

 

Looks like you've got your first clue! Congratulations! Here are some more things to consider:

 

Your ex-girlfriend chose to be with you for more than 4 years when you were a "token sarcastic asshole." This says quite a bit about her false self. Make sure you examine how her false self might have affected you. It may still be affecting you if she hasn't dealt with it.

 

Sarcasm is a sword made of words. It can still hurt people despite its incorporeal form. Analyse your history and look for cases where you may have hurt people with your sarcasm. Why did you hurt them? Why them? How did they react? These are all useful questions to work with.

 

When you have to adapt to a dysfunctional environment, a part of your personality gets twisted and becomes the bridge between your self and other people. This is the genesis of the false self. Essentially, the false self, in its many forms, is a survival mechanism; it's the scar tissue that grew over an open wound to protect it from a harmful environment. Don't dismiss and suppress it. Instead, look for who or what inflicted the wound. As far as I know, this is the only way to permanently deal with a false self problem.

 

Finally, if you're not journalling, starting journalling. I bet you gained quite a bit of insight just by writing your last reply. Journalling can be incredibly helpful when you're working through an issue.

[MattGrimes]

I'll check out that podcast, thanks.

 

 

'll give you a metaphor to, hopefully, make that statement a bit more clear. You suddenly feel a sharp pain in your finger and immediately go to the doctor because you're afraid that you pinched a nerve, causing it to randomly misfire pain signals to your brain. Treating such an issue might require painful physiotherapy or even surgery. You go to the doctor and he tells you that you cut your finger while cooking.

 

While obviously ridiculous, this scenario illustrates the value of examining the obvious external causes before settling for a more complicated diagnosis. To give you a personal example, for many years I thought I had a difficulty in expressing my emotions. It turned out that I was simply surrounded by people who would attack me, overtly and covertly, if I did that. Can you guess what happened when I finally started expressing my emotions? They started to attack me even more. I had come up with countless complicated theories only to knock them all down with one obvious explanation. Arriving at an obvious answer usually marks the beginning of a new journey. With me, the issue changed from "difficulty in expressing emotions" to "why was I surrounded by such people?" This was a deeper and more complicated problem that yielded equally surprising results.

 

Again, make sure you don't confuse my story with what's going on with you. One of the best ways to eliminate possible hypotheses and derive more accurate ones is to apply the Socratic method. It's a slow, iterative process that, depending on your proficiency, may take hours, days or even weeks. In its simplest form, it's a method of coming up with counter-examples, in the form of questions, to knowledge claims. You start with a poorly shaped and flabby argument and continuously apply the chisel of reason to carve out everything that's not a trim and fit argument. I'll give you an example/starting point:

 

Initial claim (IC): I have a difficulty in expressing empathy.

Question (Q): So you never express empathy when you're around other people?

Answer (A): No, I actually expressed genuine empathy when I was with Bob.

Q: Why could you do it when you were with Bob?

A: Bob is a man.

Adjusting the claim (AC): I have a difficulty in expressing empathy when I'm around women.

Q: Are there any men around whom you couldn't express empathy? Are there any women around whom you could express empathy?

...

 

You keep going until you nail down the precise definition of the argument. Once you have the precise definition (you can't come up with any counter-examples), you have "arrived at truth." The process doesn't have to be this rigid, but it's helpful to keep it formal until you internalize it.

 

My question was more semantic, in that your word choice caused me confusion, but thanks for clarifying. I am fairly familiar with the Socratic method, I have used it to some degree (before knowing what it was called) for many years, but now that I am 700 podcasts in, and having read the Socratic dialogues, I have a much better understanding of it. I am pretty good at applying it to others, but, as I think would be the case with most, applying it to yourself is a little more difficult (thus my reason for posting here to get your guys' help  ). I should note that my podcast time has been only over the course of 3 months, so I have absorbed a lot of information but have yet to totally sort it out and apply it. 

 

 

Looks like you've got your first clue! Congratulations! Here are some more things to consider:

 

Your ex-girlfriend chose to be with you for more than 4 years when you were a "token sarcastic asshole." This says quite a bit about her false self. Make sure you examine how her false self might have affected you. It may still be affecting you if she hasn't dealt with it.

 

Sarcasm is a sword made of words. It can still hurt people despite its incorporeal form. Analyse your history and look for cases where you may have hurt people with your sarcasm. Why did you hurt them? Why them? How did they react? These are all useful questions to work with.

 

When you have to adapt to a dysfunctional environment, a part of your personality gets twisted and becomes the bridge between yourself and other people. This is the genesis of the false self. Essentially, the false self, in its many forms, is a survival mechanism; it's the scar tissue that grew over an open wound to protect it from a harmful environment. Don't dismiss and suppress it. Instead, look for who or what inflicted the wound. As far as I know, this is the only way to permanently deal with a false self problem.

 

Finally, if you're not journalling, starting journalling. I bet you gained quite a bit of insight just by writing your last reply. Journalling can be incredibly helpful when you're working through an issue.

 

Just to clarify a little, she was the one that started to bring me out of it--As said above, I think I'd probably be dead or something equally as not-very-good if it weren't for the our relationship and how it transformed me-- and I did not use my sarcastic-assholeness on her to even a fraction of that I used it on other people, thought it definitely was one of the many dsyfunctions in the relationship. I have yet to spend too much time analyzing my sarcastic-asshole-ness but it was mostly used to dominate others and protect my own insecurities, something I felt no need to do with her.

 

With that said though, yes you are quite right in that the initiation of the relationship for both of us was fostered from false self emotions. I am pretty sure that the love we felt for one another and the growth we pushed for to make the relationship work eventually exposed us to our own trueselves and led us on the paths we are both on (as opposed to something else in our lives causing that), but I actually just the other day wrote her a long letter about this exact topic, among other things, explaining the false-self-ity of our relationship, including what you have detailed above.

 

However, I think it might be good to put analyzing our relationship on hold, as I have spent every single day of the last 6 years, barring a few months, thinking about her and our relationship. While yes I have much better tools now to look into it--I have learned more about our relationship in the last 3 months that I did in the previous ~6 years, I think I need to take her lead and go work on myself for now (especially since even if I wanted to work on our relationship, she does not right now). 

 

I am very afraid to start probing the roots of my sacarsm, but that tells me that that is exactly the thing that is most important to probe. 

 

I have been journaling on and off for many years, though I mostly only do it when I am upset or have big news, and recently have been writing dreams in it as well. I have a little blog in the back corners of the internet that I write poetry and music and other stuff in as well, but I think more consistently, and more analytically writing about my own experience is something I need to get on right away. 

 

Thanks Lians. 

[Lians]

My question was more semantic, in that your word choice caused me confusion, but thanks for clarifying. I am fairly familiar with the Socratic method, I have used it to some degree (before knowing what it was called) for many years, but now that I am 700 podcasts in, and having read the Socratic dialogues, I have a much better understanding of it. I am pretty good at applying it to others, but, as I think would be the case with most, applying it to yourself is a little more difficult (thus my reason for posting here to get your guys' help  ). I should note that my podcast time has been only over the course of 3 months, so I have absorbed a lot of information but have yet to totally sort it out and apply it. 

 

That's great! I never want to assume any knowledge on the part of new members, but it looks like you're no novice in this. Having Socratic dialogues with yourself can be quite a challenge. I like to write down some of these dialogues, particularly the important parts, in my journal. It helps me map out the whirlpool of ideas and emotions. I even resort to diagrams, flowcharts and drawings when I'm having a hard time coming up with insights.

 

I am very afraid to start probing the roots of my sacarsm, but that tells me that that is exactly the thing that is most important to probe. 

 

You should be afraid. I was absolutely terrified when I first started poking my false self with a stick. I can also tell you that the beasts of history guard treasure chests full of self-knowledge. If you put in the work, no matter how painful and unpleasant, you're going to get immeasurable value out of it. Good luck!