Libertarian guy Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I have a question. Suppose that we can bring the state down tomorrow. Then a lot of people will get problems. State health insurance, pensions etc. will end. But the elderly and people with chronic diseases, don't have the opportunity to get private insurance.People will give to charity. But the group that will need help is to big. People won't give half of their income away.....Do you know a solution for this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzzums Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Competition will lower prices down for healthcare considerably (several orders of magnitude lower, I can give examples). If people were to only give 10% of their paychecks to charity, those charities would run on a surplus of funds. Also elderly people usually have families and in a state society it's still their family that takes care of them if it's needed, regardless of how much the government likes to brag how it feeds the hungry and takes care of the elders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepin Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 The state isn't going to be brought down tomorrow, it is going to have to take a few generations of continual progress. But lets say that somehow it does happen and the state collapses tomorrow. Well, we can't predict anything because the removal of the state would cause an overwhelming amount of constant change from a vast number of individuals all acting with different motives and plans for such ah long period of time that the period could not really be described. It would likely be described as a form of systematic chaos and creative destruction. Why do I think this? Because the fall of the state would also mean the fall of everything the state is involved. As a Libertarian guy, you know how much control the state has over the economy, and the vast effects even small incentives have on the economy. Almost all markets are structured around pointless and irrational regulation, certain sectors of the economy such as tax services are only in place because of the government, and so much of the goods people consume are sponsored through corporate welfare in the form of subside. Just try to imagine all of this control melting away in an instant and how that would be handled. How would the chronically ill and elderly be taken care of in such an environment? Well, I hope my response would suggest that there is no answer in the sense that it is impossible to predict. Would they get taken care of? I'd guess yes since this seems to be something that people claim to care about? How would they get taken care of? In unimaginable ways. It is of course possible that perhaps the collapse of the state in the current day would not fair very well for many of the elderly and chronically ill. I don't find that to be very likely, and that combined with the plausibility of the situation makes the importance of the question not a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian guy Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 @Wuzzums"Competition will lower prices down for healthcare considerably (several orders of magnitude lower, I can give examples)." But how much lower prices? Most hospital-cures cost 100 000 or more. And it's impossible for the elderly to get insurance... For families 100 000 is a lot money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Clarke Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I have a question. Suppose that we can bring the state down tomorrow. Then a lot of people will get problems. State health insurance, pensions etc. will end. But the elderly and people with chronic diseases, don't have the opportunity to get private insurance.People will give to charity. But the group that will need help is to big. People won't give half of their income away.....Do you know a solution for this problem? Do you know a solution for this problem? The government does not seem to provide the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh F Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The solution is not to hold ourselves accountable for the mistakes of a previous generation. We don't have any mandatory obligations to provide them with any of our own wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasDoubts Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Crackheads depend on crack dealers. What would they do without the dealers? People would go through withdrawal. Change will benefit some, and harm others in the short term, and that's fine. You gotta stop being a crackhead before you can worry about anything else. The elderly had a lifetime to get private health insurance before they got sick. They chose not to. Compassion, generousity and charity would help ease the transition, but State promises would be broken, and people would die. Promises are broken today, and people die today. Of course advocates of a free society would have a vested interest in not allowing the formation of a disenfrachised underclass. I would do anything in my power to address the problems that others use as a justification for the State. If the State were dissolved tomorrow, I'd do anything to prevent it's reinstitution. Additionally, I don't want to see people suffer, so I would try to help in the best way I could. A key point was made by Marcus. Government has not provided a just and moral solution. Who cares what solutions may be tried, so long as they are free of force. The best solutions will emerge as the product of trial and error. The status quo prevents the experimentation that provides information, and information is useful and unbiased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_LiveFree_ Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 All alcohol and alcohol creating processes will be destroyed tomorrow. Many people will suffer. What is the solution to this problem? Who cares? It's not a real problem. I'm not going to waste my time on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The solution is not to hold ourselves accountable for the mistakes of a previous generation. We don't have any mandatory obligations to provide them with any of our own wealth. This. I remember hearing Stef talk about how welfare/social security are like subsidies for assholes. If you're a virtuous person and need help paying for medical costs or whatever you can go to your family, friends, neighbors, or church. If the state subsidizes these costs people have less motivation to build strong relationships. Take away all the freebies for single mothers and they'll be motivated to stop banging and making children with deadbeats. When I lived at home my dad always used to say his will was going to say "I spent it" and he was leaving nothing to his kids. He even repeated it the day I introduced my fiancee to him, "make sure she doesn't expect to inherit any money lol" Guess who I am not taking care of when he becomes an invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh F Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 lol, Jer. I think people's motivation to even consider helping these dumb old baby boomers is because they haven't processed or experienced the abuse from these people the rest of us have... they're the cause of economic collapse and unemployment, they should be the ones who suffer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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