Feel free to ask me about anything in Islam

[iron]

Hi everyone

 

I've been listening to Stefan for quite some time now, but after watching enough videos of him throwing a bunch of adjectives onto islam, calling it "irrational" or "crazy", I've decided to come here and make this thread so we can address his complaints.

 

So please ask me any questions you have about islam.

Keep in mind, Islam is not Christianity. Just because you had difficult experiences with that religion doesn't mean it also exists in other faiths.

 

***

 

Btw Stefan if you're reading this, I want to say that after listening to you for quite some time, and I truly appreciate your rational arguments on just about everything, I do have to say that it appears to me that you do have a bit of bias against middle eastern philosophy, science and history.

 

For example, I've never heard you talk about some of the Islamic Golden-Age philosophers like Avicenna, or poets like Rumi, or classical texts like 'Hayy ibn Yaqdhan', or even biologists like Nasir al-Din al-Tusi (http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/92_folder/92_articles/92_tusi.html).

 

Another example, is when the other day you claim that Western European Race put an end to slavery, when in fact there are many historians who argue that 2000 years before that we had the ancient persians under the leadership of Cyrus the Great, achieving the same goal.  Have you read about Cyrus the Great?

 

Thanks for taking your time to read this post, and I'm looking forward to reading your arguments/questions on Islam.

[TheRobin]

Why not make it the other way around: Have you read his case against deism (or for atheism if you prefer)? If so, what faults did you find with the arguments?

[Wuzzums]

Nah, we're good. Thanks anyway.

[Rob_Ilir]

If your parents were Christians, what are the chances that you would be taking questions on anything of Muslims?

[dayna j.]

What methodoloy does Islam utilize in order to differentiate between truth and falsehood?

[zippert]

Why do you believe, that quran which states, that it is the word of god, is really the word of god, when there are other texts, which also state, they are the word od god, you don't believe it is the word of god?

 

How do you "know" that Muhammad has really listened to an angel?

If there are other prophets, - and there are countless-, who also say they have listened to god/angels, why do you believe Muhammad and not the other prophets?

 

Do humans, who lived before Muhammad or never heard of him also go to hell?

 

What would your life look like if you were are kafir?

How would your family react? Your social enviroment?

 

Thats it for the moment. Waiting for answers.

[Wesley]

This is how I understand the easiest way to prove that Muslims are irrational.

 

1. Muslims believe in God.

 

2. Muslims define God in contradictory terms (as all of the Abrahamic religions define God similarly).

 

3. Contradictions cannot exist.

 

4. Since (3) and (2) the Muslim God cannot exist.

 

5. It is irrational to believe things exist that cannot exist.

 

6. Since God cannot exist (4) and it is irrational to believe in things that cannot exist (5), it is irrational to believe in God.

 

7. Since (6) and (1), Muslims are irrational.

 

Something like this is why Islam and most other religions are irrational and crazy.

[iron]

Why not make it the other way around: Have you read his case against deism (or for atheism if you prefer)? If so, what faults did you find with the arguments?

 

IMO athiest are half-way there in finding the real truth...

they belive that there are no deities

all they have to do is say except for the One Creator

and they're basically a beliver

 

our Creator is not a human like Christians claim, and He does not favour one particular race like some religions claim.

If your parents were Christians, what are the chances that you would be taking questions on anything of Muslims?

 

I like many of you, am a skeptic, always questioning everything the mainstream says and always reflecting on the state of society.

Now if I was born into a Christian family, one thing I would certantly realize, is that Islam is the most hated religion on the planet right now.

This observation would most definitly lead me to investigate the religion thorougly and seek the ultimate truth.

 

It's the same thing with freemarket/libeterianisim/tea party philosophy.  Today there is a lot of anger/properganda against such movements in the mainstream, and as such I would take the time to study closely why this is the case, and what motives are involved when the mainstream dismisses them.

[Armitage]

What is the actual meaning of the word "Jihad"?

 

One I have heard was reputedly, that it meant something like quest, effort or endeavor. There were supposed to be many kinds of jihad, a jihad to get out of poverty, a jihad to get to a university, a jihad to find a better job...

 

The holy Jihad of killing some people was just one kind of Jihad. And for a Jihad it was necessary to have a mother's permission. I kid you not, that's what people claimed to me. So obviously if mothers are oppressed by the USA, they give permission to their sons to go and blow themselves up. 

 

I know it's simplistic, it sounds too good to be true and maybe it's not true anymore, not under these Wahabist rich Saudi Arabians. But was there ever anything about it?

[Mike Fleming]

It does seem some atheists seem to have a grudge against Islam in particular.  I'm not saying Stef is one of those, but I can certainly think of one or two who do...

 

For me, it is fundamentally just as irrational and crazy as Christianity.  It's just that Christianity has been tamed somewhat and is fading in the traditional Christian countries whereas there are still some Islamic theocracies around and seem to be many more fundamental Muslims who seem to have a lot more effect on their society than Christians.  

 

Where many people in the West treat Christian proclamations like "hurricanes punish us for accepting gays" and such as the stupid garbage that they are, many equivalent stupid proclamations from Islamic preachers seem to be taken more seriously by muslims.   I personally think it's just because Islamic countries haven't had the chance to develop and educate themselves in the same way that the West has.  They just haven't had their enlightenment yet.  But it's coming...

 

If we look purely at the religious books themselves, they are both equally insane and shouldn't be taken seriously by any rational thinking person.

[Rob_Ilir]

"This observation would most definitly lead me to investigate the religion thorougly and seek the ultimate truth."

 

Does any child have a choice to not practice the religion, to not get mutilated for the tribes sacrifice? Does it still make sense to treat woman like second class people in 2014? 

 

 

"It's the same thing with freemarket/libeterianisim/tea party philosophy.  Today there is a lot of anger/properganda against such movements in the mainstream, and as such I would take the time to study closely why this is the case, and what motives are involved when the mainstream dismisses them."

 

 

Two people freely exchanging goods or services without a forceful 3rd party, is similar to you explaining your religion? 

[iron]

Does any child have a choice to not practice the religion, to not get mutilated for the tribes sacrifice?

 

Can you elaborate more on this point, and give me references from the Quran that promotes such a sacrifice?

 

 

Does it still make sense to treat woman like second class people in 2014? 

 

Can you elaborate more on this point?

What exactly makes you think they're treated as second class?

 

 

 

 

Two people freely exchanging goods or services without a forceful 3rd party, is similar to you explaining your religion?

 

I'm talking about how certain movements/ideologies are constantly demonized in the mainstream media, and how it's important to investigate.

[Rob_Ilir]

"Can you elaborate more on this point, and give me references from the Quran that promotes such a sacrifice?"

 

What would happen to a child in a Muslim country if he was to say no to all religion?

 

Are you familiar with Khitan/Tahara? How old were you?

 

 

"Can you elaborate more on this point, and give me references from the Quran that promotes such a sacrifice?"

 

Clothing, travel, job, association. Muslim countries have different rulels for woman as they do for men, do they not?

 

 

"I'm talking about how certain movements/ideologies are constantly demonized in the mainstream media, and how it's important to investigate."

 

In this case some people are angry(msm/statists), because others(anarchists) dont want to be forced to pay for them.

 

Maybe Muslims and other religions are also angry because the forced teaching they pass on to their kids are regarded as immoral in 2014?

[NeoEclectic]

Religion is irrational and contradictory. Islam is a religion.

[iron]

"Can you elaborate more on this point, and give me references from the Quran that promotes such a sacrifice?"

 

What would happen to a child in a Muslim country if he was to say no to all religion?

 

Nothing it is their choice.  But if they chose to not follow islamic teachings, they must also respect their parent's faith.

 

Now the typical way they're raised is as follows:

 

from age 0 to 7 they're your king/queen- ie. let them play, do what ever they want

from 7 to 14 is when you start to teach them morals, the self-discipline practises (ie. religion) you follow and also you spend quality time with them

from 14 to 21 is when you start delegating tasks, responsibility and decision making to them

 

 

Are you familiar with Khitan/Tahara? How old were you?

 

No I'm not famaliar with these terms, and I don't know what it has to do with me.

Can you show me what verses in the Quran has these terms?

 

 

"Can you elaborate more on this point, and give me references from the Quran that promotes such a sacrifice?"

 

Clothing, travel, job, association. Muslim countries have different rulels for woman as they do for men, do they not?

 

Clothing - If you are refering to why they wear veil, and not show skin/curves

well if they choose to accept Islam, it is important they reduce their sins and also not to instigate others to sin

 

so with clothing, they dress up modestly the same exact way as Jesus's mother Mary dressed.

 

The veil and covering up of skin/curves helps not to instigate the sin of lust (from men) and the sin of jelousy (from women).

 

Now of course they can choose not to follow these practises, but this is what is recommended in the Quran if they want to get closer to the Creator.

 

Travel - I couldn't find any verses in the Quran that gives a differnt ruling for women on this matter.

 

Job - Again no verses in the quran gives differnt rulings on women and men in terms of work.  Now in the past, in muslim-populated regions, women would stay at home to raise the kids, while the men were the breadwinners and had no problem supporting the family financially.  Of course in times like now, where the foundations of money is based on usury, ( currency is ursury-bearing debt) which is against the religion of Islam, they're forced to go to work just to keep the family's finances afloat.  But normally if these societies followed the islamic teachings correctly, these women would stay at home and raise the kids while the men would earn decent salary for their labour.

 

Association - I'm not sure what you mean by association.  When both men and women are young, they're all encouraged not to hang out with the opposite gender, in order to not instigate the sin of lust/jelousy among themselves and their peers.

Religion is irrational and contradictory. Islam is a religion.

 

Can you elaborate what aspects of Islam is irrational and contradictory to you?

[iron]

What methodoloy does Islam utilize in order to differentiate between truth and falsehood?

 

This is a great question, unfortunatly I'm not an expert, and I think it is best you talk to an Imam/scholar on this matter.

 

Now I'll give you my thoughts on this...

 

I think it depends on who exactly do you want to show what is true and what is not, and how much resources is required until they're satisfied.

 

If it is for yourself, you can do a lot of things depending on what resources you need that will satisfy you.  You can pray for logic or knowledge via books, videos, people to show up in your life to get you closer to the truth.  On more complicated or urgent matters, you can pray for signs/visual cues/coincidences to answer your question relatively quickly.  You can also involve yourself in a series of spiritual practises and strive for more certainty (yaqeen) and to ultimately attain a high-level of spiritual discernment(noor-basirat).  <--- I'll talk about this later in this post.

 

Now if on the other hand, you want to explain the truth/falsehood to another individual, it depends on the individual...

 

If it is someone spiritual, you can talk about signs/observations you've both noticed and they would most likely understand your postion relatively quickly.

 

If it is someone like stefan, it takes a lot more effort/time and you talk to him with logical/scientific arguments and give him enough rational rigor to a sufficent level until he's satisfied.

 

Now if it is someone who is a psycopath and has no empathy whatsoever, with today's level of science/technology, there is a limitation to giving him/her rational rigor.

 

For example, suppose you want to tell Pharoh that slavery is wrong, all you do is just give him a series of arguments that boils down to the non-aggression principle, and immorality involved in the use of violence.

But Pharoh being a psycopath, would demand even more rational arguments on why the use of violence is wrong.  That is, it is not enough to tell him that a certain immoral act is wrong.  He wants rigorous justification for this position.  And right now we simply don't have the science/technology to show him that he has a soul, or that we're all connected 'sprititually'.... and whenever he performs an immoral act, we can't show him graphs/video of the 'spiritual' damage he causes on his soul and the spiritual connection he has with the rest of humanity.  As a result, all you can do is just pray for divine signs to come to him, and pray that he realizes that he's wrong.

 

***

 

Now going back to the concept of spiritual discernment.  It can sometime get too complicated to explain with words.

Remember it depends on the level of yaqeen you've reached (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaqeen)...

 

It's can be a special type of intuition where you can 'feel' something is true or false.  Like a gut-feeling that we all have, but it's more poweful.

 

Another form is visual, which is hard to explain in words and I myself am not an expert on it.  Basically through the sprititual practises, fasting, worshiping, ...etc.  you can alter the state of your brain, and so your eyes would change.  As an analogy, consider that your brain is an antenna... so through the worshiping, you can tune the 'frequency' of your brain to a 'frequncy' where you can start to see everything differently than what others see.  You can say it's 'hallucination' or whatever, but your vision changes to a point where you can visually see extra 'information'.

 

As an example, consider when you were a kid... I'm sure you didn't notice the opposite gender as much as you did after you hit puberty.  When you went through puberty, your brain was changing and that's when you started to notice and get strong feelings towards the opposite gender.

 

Another example I like to give is this movie they live...

 

 

Those sunglasses are a symbolic representation of high-level spiritual discernment.

 

Notice how he can see major differences in people's face?  This islamic movie has the same symbolisim

 

http://youtu.be/YAJWkZlOq0Y?t=48m31s

at around minute 48:30 - 49:00

[FriendlyHacker]

Can you explain the physics of flying donkeys? We need to tap into that technology!

[iron]

Can you explain the physics of flying donkeys? We need to tap into that technology!

 

???

 

What does this have to do with islam?

[FriendlyHacker]

Muhammad ascended to heaven in a flying donkey, he must have figured out room temperature superconductors.

[iron]

Muhammad ascended to heaven in a flying donkey, he must have figured out room temperature superconductors.

 

Where do you get information like this?  Show me where in the Quran it mentions such a thing.

[FriendlyHacker]

It's on Isra and Mi'raj, not a donkey though, it's a winged white donkey with a human head, called the Al-Bura, which makes even less sense.

[iron]

It's on Isra and Mi'raj, not a donkey though, it's a winged white donkey with a human head, called the Al-Bura, which makes even less sense.

 

This is what the Quran says on Isra and Miraj

 

"Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing."  - Surah 17 Verse 1

 

No mention of a white donkey with a human head, let alone it's name as 'Al-Bura'.

[Wesley]

I would appreciate a response to my post if you wouldn't mind. Thanks.

[FriendlyHacker]

• I was brought al-Burg who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof at a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait-ul Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 1, p. 101).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isra_and_Mi'raj

 

http://answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/3d.html

[iron]

 

• I was brought al-Burg who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof at a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait-ul Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 1, p. 101).

 

 

http://answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol1/3d.html

 

 

yes, sahih muslim is not the Quran

 

 

I would appreciate a response to my post if you wouldn't mind. Thanks.

 

This is how I understand the easiest way to prove that Muslims are irrational.

 

1. Muslims believe in God.

 

2. Muslims define God in contradictory terms (as all of the Abrahamic religions define God similarly).

 

3. Contradictions cannot exist.

 

4. Since (3) and (2) the Muslim God cannot exist.

 

5. It is irrational to believe things exist that cannot exist.

 

6. Since God cannot exist (4) and it is irrational to believe in things that cannot exist (5), it is irrational to believe in God.

 

7. Since (6) and (1), Muslims are irrational.

 

Something like this is why Islam and most other religions are irrational and crazy.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by point 2.

 

Can you elaborate specificially what aspect is contradictory to you?

[Wesley]

yes, sahih muslim is not the Quran

 

again many scholars say it was an out-of-body experience

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by point 2.

 

Can you elaborate specificially what aspect is contradictory to you?

God is consciousness without material form, which is a contradiction.

 

He is omnipotent and omniscient, a contradiction.

 

He is perfect and creates imperfect things, which is a contradiction.

 

God is good but kills millions.

 

God is omniscient and surprised.

 

I am sure there are many other such contradictions.

 

If you can, I would be interested to see how God is defined without any contradictions.

[NeoEclectic]

Can you elaborate what aspects of Islam is irrational and contradictory to you?

 

There's no point in rehashing popularly common talking points in detail.

 

If you don't understand irrationality in religion then there's no point in debating.

[iron]

I want to address one of Stef's recent statement about Prophet Noah-pbuh's flood and how children were drowned

 

In Islamic works, it was said 40 years prior to the flood, the Creator changed their society in a way that no one can have children.

The reason is said to be that there is a limit to bringing an innocensent child in an extremely corrupt society

 

So when the flood happend, there were NO children drowing.

[Wesley]

Yea... this is definitely beyond rational debate.

[Josh F]

What methodoloy does Islam utilize in order to differentiate between truth and falsehood?

This was the single most important question asked. EDIT  just saw the rather late response, reading now.

You can pray for logic or knowledge via books, videos, people to show up in your life to get you closer to the truth.

I was pretty certain the only way to tell the truth was to cut a chickens head off and read the patterns in the blood, but if you tell me this crazy prayer thing is the right way to determine truth from fiction, well by golly it sounds far more clean than the chicken entrails. 

 

I'm sorry for being so condescending, but I think this skirts the point and your argument in and of itself is condescending.  You seem familiar, though very loosely, with the ideas of evidence and logic.  Can you please provide how you know prayer works empirically or logically?

 

So when it comes to discerning between truth and falsehood, you know that someone saying something isn't sufficient proof, even if you're under the impression that God sent them, right?  How do you know the Devil didn't send them?  How do you know they're right? 

 

So check it out, God has sent me into your life to tell you that Islam is a system to control people and is the source for far more evil than good in the world, and always has been. 

 

You're an atheist now, then, right? 

[iron]

I was pretty certain the only way to tell the truth was to cut a chickens head off and read the patterns in the blood, but if you tell me this crazy prayer thing is the right way to determine truth from fiction, well by golly it sounds far more clean than the chicken entrails. 

 

I'm sorry for being so condescending, but I think this skirts the point and your argument in and of itself is condescending.  You seem familiar, though very loosely, with the ideas of evidence and logic.  Can you please provide how you know prayer works empirically or logically?

 

It's okay, I know that the idea of doing a spirtiual ritual can sound crazy, medieval, bizarre ...etc. especially when you've never tried it or experienced its outcome.

 

If you want to see emperical evidence, why not try it?  Experiment it and see the result.

 

Here's some advice:

 

1. Make the sacrifice to stop yourself from giving into your negative emotions.  What I mean by this, is avoid having those emotions that are felt below your heart.   Lust, anger, envy, ...etc.  I'm sure you know what I mean.   When you're at work, or go walk in the street, mall, surfing the internet, watching movies ...etc. avoid having these feelings.

Avoid drinking alchohol, or taking drugs, ...etc. in order to prevent yourself from having negative feelings.

Also try not to instigate others to have these emotions.

If the temptations to give into certain desires becomes overwhelming for you,you may want to consider changing you diet, avoid certain foods or even fasting a few times to clam down yourself down.

 

2.  As you work on making these sacrifices, try your best to wake up around dawn and make your prayer.  Muslims tend to do it by facing Mecca, and place their head on the ground (it's like a yoga exercie).  Try it this way to see for yourself.

 

3.   When you make your prayer, you have to focus fully on the One Creator (ie. don't think about your friends, yourself, your mom/dad, not Jesus, not the ritual itself ...etc.  just the One Creator).  When you focus soley on Him, He will address your requests (provided it's not vauge, and it was made with no negative thoughts).

 

Let us know how it went and be honest about what coincidences you've observed.

 

 So when it comes to discerning between truth and falsehood, you know that someone saying something isn't sufficient proof, even if you're under the impression that God sent them, right?  How do you know the Devil didn't send them?  How do you know they're right? 

 

So check it out, God has sent me into your life to tell you that Islam is a system to control people and is the source for far more evil than good in the world, and always has been. 

 

You're an atheist now, then, right?

 

What I meant by someone saying something... is that they will say a word, or the name of a book, or reccomend a certain website, ...etc

which if you investigate further you will find the answer to what you were requesting in your prayer

 

About how do you know the Devil didn't send them.

 

As I said, you have to get involved in the spiritual practises, the fasting, the meditating, ...etc. and seek to attain spiritual discernment.

It's a strong form of intution.

 

I gave the example in my earlier post about how our vision changed as we went through puberty.  Prior to puberty, we didn't 'notice' the opposite gender, but after we 'notice' them, and are strongly attracted to them.  It is like that, you go through a change, where you instantly notice/feel things.

 

Even as adults we have a special type of this intution when it comes to finding a good partner, but Men usually don't pay too much attention to it.  For example I'm sure you've often heard complaints from women, how a certain man gave them the creeps.  It is like this kind of intutive feeling.

[Wesley]

It's okay, I know that the idea of doing a spirtiual ritual can sound crazy, medieval, bizarre ...etc. especially when you've never tried it or experienced its outcome.

 

If you want to see emperical evidence, why not try it?  Experiment it and see the result.

 

Here's some advice:

 

1. Make the sacrifice to stop yourself from giving into your negative emotions.  What I mean by this, is avoid having those emotions that are felt below your heart.   Lust, anger, envy, ...etc.  I'm sure you know what I mean.   When you're at work, or go walk in the street, mall, surfing the internet, watching movies ...etc. avoid having these feelings.

Avoid drinking alchohol, or taking drugs, ...etc. in order to prevent yourself from having negative feelings.

Also try not to instigate others to have these emotions.

If the temptations to give into certain desires becomes overwhelming for you,you may want to consider changing you diet, avoid certain foods or even fasting a few times to clam down yourself down.

 

2.  As you work on making these sacrifices, try your best to wake up around dawn and make your prayer.  Muslims tend to do it by facing Mecca, and place their head on the ground (it's like a yoga exercie).  Try it this way to see for yourself.

 

3.   When you make your prayer, you have to focus fully on the One Creator (ie. don't think about your friends, yourself, your mom/dad, not Jesus, not the ritual itself ...etc.  just the One Creator).  When you focus soley on Him, He will address your requests (provided it's not vauge, and it was made with no negative thoughts).

 

Let us know how it went and be honest about what coincidences you've observed.

 

 

What I meant by someone saying something... is that they will say a word, or the name of a book, or reccomend a certain website, ...etc

which if you investigate further you will find the answer to what you were requesting in your prayer

 

About how do you know the Devil didn't send them.

 

As I said, you have to get involved in the spiritual practises, the fasting, the meditating, ...etc. and seek to attain spiritual discernment.

It's a strong form of intution.

 

I gave the example in my earlier post about how our vision changed as we went through puberty.  Prior to puberty, we didn't 'notice' the opposite gender, but after we 'notice' them, and are strongly attracted to them.  It is like that, you go through a change, where you instantly notice/feel things.

 

Even as adults we have a special type of this intution when it comes to finding a good partner, but Men usually don't pay too much attention to it.  For example I'm sure you've often heard complaints from women, how a certain man gave them the creeps.  It is like this kind of intutive feeling.

Not irrational or crazy at all...

[Josh F]

It's okay, I know that the idea of doing a spirtiual ritual can sound crazy, medieval, bizarre ...etc. especially when you've never tried it or experienced its outcome.

 

If you want to see emperical evidence, why not try it?  Experiment it and see the result.

 

Here's some advice:

 

1. Make the sacrifice to stop yourself from giving into your negative emotions.  What I mean by this, is avoid having those emotions that are felt below your heart.   Lust, anger, envy, ...etc.  I'm sure you know what I mean.   When you're at work, or go walk in the street, mall, surfing the internet, watching movies ...etc. avoid having these feelings.

Avoid drinking alchohol, or taking drugs, ...etc. in order to prevent yourself from having negative feelings.

Also try not to instigate others to have these emotions.

If the temptations to give into certain desires becomes overwhelming for you,you may want to consider changing you diet, avoid certain foods or even fasting a few times to clam down yourself down.

 

2.  As you work on making these sacrifices, try your best to wake up around dawn and make your prayer.  Muslims tend to do it by facing Mecca, and place their head on the ground (it's like a yoga exercie).  Try it this way to see for yourself.

 

3.   When you make your prayer, you have to focus fully on the One Creator (ie. don't think about your friends, yourself, your mom/dad, not Jesus, not the ritual itself ...etc.  just the One Creator).  When you focus soley on Him, He will address your requests (provided it's not vauge, and it was made with no negative thoughts).

 

Let us know how it went and be honest about what coincidences you've observed.

I'm not going to do any of that stuff, what an absurd and incredibly insulting request.  You think I haven´t experienced religious absurdity in my life?  Do you think atheists are all raised on some island where crazy people can't come?  We know how prayer works, we've seen it and done it, it doesn't work, we all know it doesn't work, and you know it doesn't work.

 

Let me explain what you're doing: talking to yourself, looking for coincidences, and then using that irrelevant activity to justify your belief in an abusive space overlord who you'll abuse children into worshiping. 

 

Please do not request anyone on this forum practice Islam, that's horrific.  This is a forum against irrationality and child abuse, making it the opposite of Islam. 

[iron]

I'm not going to do any of that stuff, what an absurd and incredibly insulting request.  You think I haven´t experienced religious absurdity in my life?  Do you think atheists are all raised on some island where crazy people can't come?  We know how prayer works, we've seen it and done it, it doesn't work, we all know it doesn't work, and you know it doesn't work.

 

I'm sorry if my response was insulting to you, it was not my intetion, but you requested for empirical evidence to show that prayer works.

 

I gave you a method on how to approach it, so you can test it using the scientific method.

 

You said it never worked for you.  Can you tell me when was the last time you tried it?  Did you make a strong effort to abstain from sins like lust, anger, envy, ...etc. during that time when you were making the prayer?  Were you praying to the Creator or Jesus?

 

 

Let me explain what you're doing: talking to yourself, looking for coincidences, and then using that irrelevant activity to justify your belief in an abusive space overlord who you'll abuse children into worshiping. 

 

What makes you think I would do such a thing?

 

 

Please do not request anyone on this forum practice Islam, that's horrific.  This is a forum against irrationality and child abuse, making it the opposite of Islam.

 

Show me where in Quran does it promote child abuse?

 

In fact before Islam, some of the Arabs were burying their daughters alive...

until Islam came to them advocating to stop that practise immediately

 

Prophet Mohammed(sawa) himself was an orphan, and he made significant efforts to help those children from being neglicted or taken advantage of (by not having people steal their inheretence).

 

There are stories of how, a small child wet his pants while being next to the prophet, and the boy's father came rushing angry at the boy... and the prophet insisted the father to calm down, and described to him how he's hurting the child's self esteem with that kind of response.

 

I suggest you read more about this topic.

[Josh F]

You know what... I just spent a bunch of time researching what Islam says about raising children.  It absolutely advocates hitting children, but I confess it also recommends and provides a vast list of rules and regulations and other stipulations.  For example, you aren't suppose to hit them until they are 7.  Sounds like a mild improvement on Judaism and Islam.

 

Perhaps Idris you can share your own childhood experiences with us... I'd be very interested to know how you and/or your siblings were disciplined as children.