How to recover from conditional parenting/love?

[Libertarian Prepper]

Hello,

 

This is my first post here so I thought I'd start with a question that's bugging me (and also a bit of an introduction).

 

I'm currently reading Alfie Kohn's book "Unconditional Parenting" and it's blowing my mind left and right. I've realized that time-outs and bouts of positive reinforcement were very much the primary parenting model my mother used with me (my father wasn't around much). I don't recall ever being spanked, but since my mother isn't being honest about my childhood (she claims to have never given me time-outs, but I remember them clearly) it may have happened at a very young age before I can recall.

 

I seem to have most of the consequences of conditional parenting that Kohn talks about: Low self-esteem, difficulty with finding intrinsic motivation, depression, and social anxiety.

 

Kohn's book deals entirely with how the reader can be a better parent by giving their children unconditional love. My current issue (I am not yet a parent), and what is not addressed, is how to recover from conditional parenting if it's already been inflicted on you for 18+ years.

 

I know that at some point I will seek out a therapist, but for now this is not possible for a number of reasons, so anything else that can help me out would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[cynicist]

I don't have anything to add at the moment (this is a problem I struggle with too) but I wanted to let you know I appreciate the reading recommendation.

[Libertarian Prepper]

My pleasure, cynicist.

 

I have some more to add to this thread. Thanks to a very helpful conversation with Stephen C. in the chat room I've come to realize a few more things.

 

I've noticed a few years ago that whatever I did, I never felt happy with myself. Even when I did things I was really interested in, I felt like they were "beneath me", and it never felt quite right. As a result, I would often procrastinate or put things off that I felt were worthless, even though I wanted to do them and they were important to me.

 

Well, I've realized that I was internalizing my parents' (mostly my father's) voices. Turns out that though my father wasn't around all that much, he has influenced me with conditional love very much. Every time I tried to pursue a profession he didn't approve of, he would deprecate it and express great disapproval. Basically, he would reject that part of my personality that loved whatever it was that I wanted to do.

 

When I was 3-4 years old, I asked him to teach me violin (he was a concert violinist for a time). For many years he would pretty much ignore my requests, or passive-aggressively say he would help but then months would pass and no help came. Eventually, maybe when I was 10, he told me that he wouldn't teach me or help me find a teacher because "violinists don't earn much money". When I was maybe 15, he talked to me a lot about how he wanted me to become a doctor or lawyer because they earn a ton of money. That I had no interest in the professions at the time didn't seem to matter.

 

When I was 17, he found me an internship at a bank in another country, and without my prior consultation or consent pretty much pushed me into it, saying it would be a "good experience". I hated it and resolved not to work in financial institutions. He's even gone so far as to sometimes "joke" that I should become a financial adviser, earn $5 million, buy a castle with a winery in France, and get our entire family settled there. Worst thing is he wasn't really joking.

 

When I expressed interest in becoming an English teacher a few months ago, both my parents ganged up on me and told me what a terrible idea that was. This lasted about two months, and even after that; whatever country I told them I wanted to work in, they said was terrible. They would only look at the negatives and not the positives.

 

I think that from a young age, in order to assure continued love (and security) from my parents, I internalized this conditional love and rejected parts of myself, constructing a false self in order to please my parents.

 

As a result, I am now procrastinating with finishing my teaching certificate, and feel like i'm wasting my time with something "not worthy of me". Because my father has setup these huge expectations of me and continually rejected whatever I've wanted to do, whenever I engage in something I want to do but that won't make me a millionaire, I feel unhappy and lose motivation.

 

Given that for so long I've been rejecting parts of myself and trying to pretend to be someone I'm not, is it really a surprise that I often feel like I have no purpose in life?

 

Here's another tidbit: I never call my father "dad". I always call him by his first name. While I will refer to him as "dad" when talking to other people, I will never do that when talking to him. A few times I wondered whether he felt unappreciated because of that and tried to call him "dad", but never could. I felt some kind of actual physical blockage and couldn't do it...

[cynicist]

When I was 17, he found me an internship at a bank in another country, and without my prior consultation or consent pretty much pushed me into it, saying it would be a "good experience". I hated it and resolved not to work in financial institutions. He's even gone so far as to sometimes "joke" that I should become a financial adviser, earn $5 million, buy a castle with a winery in France, and get our entire family settled there. Worst thing is he wasn't really joking.

 

That is disgusting. I think it's horrible that most parents push their values on their children, but to treat you as an opportunity to make a buck is especially gut wrenching for me. 

 

 

When I expressed interest in becoming an English teacher a few months ago, both my parents ganged up on me and told me what a terrible idea that was. This lasted about two months, and even after that; whatever country I told them I wanted to work in, they said was terrible. They would only look at the negatives and not the positives.

 

Why do you think you are still telling your parents these things? It's not like English teachers make a lot of money and moving to another country doesn't benefit them financially, so given that the main driver of approval for them is wealth I'm sure you could have guessed what kind of 'advice' they would give you.

 

 

Here's another tidbit: I never call my father "dad". I always call him by his first name. While I will refer to him as "dad" when talking to other people, I will never do that when talking to him. A few times I wondered whether he felt unappreciated because of that and tried to call him "dad", but never could. I felt some kind of actual physical blockage and couldn't do it...

 

Makes sense to me. You don't want to give him any kind of satisfaction or pride that he might derive from meaning of that title because he hasn't earned it in your opinion; It would be false and a betrayal of your self, and that's what makes it hard to say. I've felt similar when my family would say they love me and expect me to say the same in return. 

 

As a result, I am now procrastinating with finishing my teaching certificate, and feel like i'm wasting my time with something "not worthy of me". Because my father has setup these huge expectations of me and continually rejected whatever I've wanted to do, whenever I engage in something I want to do but that won't make me a millionaire, I feel unhappy and lose motivation.

 

That is sad. Do you think being in proximity to your parents is making it harder for you? I mean if was trying to become an actor and there were people in my life telling me that it was a waste of time I would find it hard to remain motivated. I don't really see how it could be otherwise, assuming that what you are striving for is challenging and meaningful to you.

[Libertarian Prepper]

Thanks for the empathy cynicist, it really helps.

 

 

 

Why do you think you are still telling your parents these things? It's not like English teachers make a lot of money and moving to another country doesn't benefit them financially, so given that the the main driver of approval for them is wealth I'm sure you could have guessed what kind of 'advice' they would give you.

 

 

Well, I live with them right now so when I take on a multi-month project it's hard not to talk about it. Plus I naively wanted to share stuff with them... well, not anymore that's for sure.

 

 

Makes sense to me. You don't want to give him any kind of satisfaction or pride that he might derive from meaning of that title because he hasn't earned it in your opinion; It would be false and a betrayal of your self, and that's what makes it hard to say. I've felt similar when my family would say they love me and expect me to say the same in return. 

 

Yeah, my mother also asked me several times whether I loved her (actually pretty frequently) and for the past year or so I haven't been able to say yes.

 

That is sad. Do you think being in proximity to your parents is making it harder for you? I mean if was trying to become an actor and there were people in my life telling me that it was a waste of time I would find it hard to remain motivated. I don't really see how it could be otherwise, assuming that what you are striving for is challenging and meaningful to you

 

 

 

Yeah, for sure. Thankfully my parents left to visit other family a few days ago so I should have relative peace and quiet (except for the daily phone calls of course...). Now trying to get back on track and finish my certificate.

[cynicist]

Well, I live with them right now so when I take on a multi-month project it's hard not to talk about it. Plus I naively wanted to share stuff with them... well, not anymore that's for sure.

 

Ah that makes sense. Plus there is that natural inclination to want to please your parents and make them proud. I wouldn't beat myself up over it, it's very hard to see things clearly with your parents and it is much harder when they are constantly in your presence. It's not naive to want to do that even after realizing that what they are focusing on isn't in your best interest. (to put it lightly )

 

I wish you luck with earning your certificate.

[Libertarian Prepper]

Thanks again cynicist

 

So, I've come to more realizations and thoughts, and also I ordered (and today received and began reading) a book by Daniel Mackler called "Toward Truth". The blurb says it's built on Alice Miller's work, and although I'm only a few pages in I gotta say it seems like he really gets it, and he too mentions unconditional love versus conditional parenting.

 

My realization concerns the roots of my social anxiety. I think I can attribute the realization to Stef's podcast 1149 and maybe some other sources.

 

The reason I (and perhaps anyone?) feels social anxiety is because my feelings, and my needs (and hence myself) were rejected by my parents from as far back as I remember. This rejection (through conditional parenting) becomes internalized, and is then projected onto hypothetical social interactions, where I appear to become anxious because I fear rejection. When really the source of my anxiety is that I've already rejected myself.

 

Because someone who unconditionally accepts themselves would have no reason to feel anxiety about social situations. Why would they? Worst case scenario and the other person rejects you - so what? If you accept and love yourself (not in a narcissistic way), why would a stranger's possible or real rejection hurt you?

 

Let me give you a couple of examples of rejection by my mother - these are recent ones, because I really don't remember a lot of specifics from my childhood except how I felt during those interactions (angry, anxious, scared, sad, or a combination of all of those).

 

Example 1: I use NVC to communicate my feelings and needs to my mother, without using moralistic judgments. Upon expressing my feelings, I get one of two responses. Either "well maybe you feel that way, maybe you don't" (a rejection of my feelings and an implication that I am being dishonest), or "You're insane for feeling this way! You must be a crazy person!" (complete rejection of my feelings, their underlying needs, and my self). Usually NVC should work pretty well, but evidently my mother is incapable of feeling empathy for me.

 

Example 2: The guilt. My mother frequently, especially if I'm being "disobedient", reminded me of her great sacrifice for me. What did her sacrifice entail? Well, not as much as she would make it out to be, really - she quit her job long before I was born, she raised me with the help of a string of babysitters, and I spent most of my childhood in a school during which she had 10+ hours free per day. She's done nothing with her time to this day, so the sacrifice thing is bogus. But even if it wasn't bogus, making me feel guilty about even being born with phrases like "You should be grateful to your mother for even giving birth to you." is just... ugh. No wonder I've suppressed my needs, rejected myself, and had low self-confidence in meeting new people - how could I not, if I felt guilty for even being alive?

 

So, that's all I have to share for now. Any input is appreciated!

[Lians]

I'll give you a few thoughts that I work with when I'm dealing with my own history. Take them for what they're worth.

 

Conditional love, to me, is a disgusting euphemism. You may conditionally love your friends, girlfriend or wife, but that's not what the child experiences. To a child, withdrawal of love and affection is a death sentence. It's a threat of abandonment that evokes terrible feelings of pain and fear. These aren't irrational feelings. Looking at the history of parenting, abandoning and even killing your children if they were disobedient or merely inconvenient was common occurrence. The fear and pain are carved into the genetic history of our species.

 

I've heard of people trying to re-parent their inner children with unconditional love and care. I'm no expert in this area, but the promise of providing the love that was never given seems disingenuous and disrespectful.

 

Virtuous actions apply both to others and ourselves. Be honest with your wounded parts. Don't give them false promises. Acknowledge their suffering and never downplay the painful events that gave birth to them within you. I've had parts of me get rightfully angry when I tried to promise the impossible. You can't put the lack of unconditional love on the same scale as something that can be lost and found; stolen and then replaced.

 

Personally, I've accepted that I'll never experience unconditional love and I try to work around this knowledge. I won't go into the entire argument here, but it's not healthy for me to experience this kind of love as an adult either. The only thing that puts my inner child at ease is my commitment to virtue and the firm resolve to provide this unconditional love to my own children.

[Libertarian Prepper]

Thanks Lians, I appreciate your thoughts. I agree with much of what you're saying, and I didn't really think about it that way before, but you're right, conditional love really is a heck of a euphemism for manipulating a child with abandonment and potential death.

 

False promises are indeed something I'd want to avoid, but I've not read anywhere near enough about this to really knowledgeably conclude whether they are false or not.

 

One thing I wonder though - is it possible to extend unconditional love to our children if we can't extend it to our own inner child?

[Lians]

One thing I wonder though - is it possible to extend unconditional love to our children if we can't extend it to our own inner child?

 

This is a very good question. It will be a bitter sweet experience, but as long as you stay conscious about the possibility of projecting your inner child on your toddler, you should be fine. Stef goes into this in some of his parenting podcasts. Recognizing the projection dynamic at play is a matter of practice. It will be harder for you relative to someone who was parented that way, but this is the reality that we have to live with. Through work on self-knowledge you may, in fact, become a better parent than those who had a much happier childhood.

[Libertarian Prepper]

This is a very good question. It will be a bitter sweet experience, but as long as you stay conscious about the possibility of projecting your inner child on your toddler, you should be fine. Stef goes into this in some of his parenting podcasts. Recognizing the projection dynamic at play is a matter of practice. It will be harder for you relative to someone who was parented that way, but this is the reality that we have to live with. Through work on self-knowledge you may, in fact, become a better parent than those who had a much happier childhood.

Alright, that's pretty inspiring I'll look into those projection podcasts. Obviously I'm a long way away from having kids. Prior to that I will read a bunch of books (what I'm doing now), then go through self-therapy until I'm pretty confident that I understand myself, and only then would I consider it, if I found the right partner to do it with,