Archery and Parenting - How to Stay on Target

[Xtort]

This is just some more anecdotal validation of the peaceful parenting concept.

 

This year when summer began, my wife and I decided to find an activity for our son to get involved in.  After going through a range of ideas, he was interested in either dance or martial arts.  I don't personally have a problem with martial arts but that seemed rather dull, and so we were considering dance.  Then the idea struck me to consider archery.  It has some utility assuming he finds himself stranded in the woods and his only means of finding food is a bow and arrow (a stretch I know), and it's an interesting sport that's not very typical.  He loved the idea, so did the wife, and luckily enough there are people here who offer affordable instruction on archery.  Maybe because on the east coast we get lots of implants from England where the tradition is still alive and strong?

 

Anyway, there is one experience in particular I wanted to share.  My son got very into the sport and we were taking him to an archery range every day.  Despite being somewhat militant, the sport itself is very interesting to me.  The amount of physics involved surprised me.  Very tiny variations in where you place your hands, your finger, even your face or the angle you stand at will completely change where the arrow goes.  (I signed up for lessons along with him).  Shooting effectively requires concentration, stamina, and confidence - because if you stand there too long worrying about whether or not your aim is correct, your muscles will begin to shake and you will definitely miss.

 

Now, my son has a natural talent for this sort that he's picked up and developed very quickly.  As such my wife and I have high expectations for him when he shoots.  That said, being a child, sometimes he is very off.  Maybe he's distracted by something else, maybe he's just not feeling it that day.  But sometimes we go to the range and even with the closer targets he just can't hit anything.  This is the experience I wanted to share with you.

 

My wife is Asian, and in her country they are very strict about this sort of thing (think the tiger mother article written a few years ago).  Her response, when he kept missing, would be to shout at him.  When that didn't work, she would loom over him and assume a threatening posture.  When he would get frustrated and start wanting to quit, she would demand that he stand there and keep doing it until he got it right.  And the immediate effect was obvious - his performance only got worse.  Not only did it get worse, but he started to hate doing it, and at that point, what's the point in continuing?  Against my better judgment I allowed her tirade to continue until he was in tears with frustration.  The result of that method - entirely negative.

 

That was when I calmly but firmly suggested that she go sit down and let me work with him.  The first thing I did was take a break with him, talk to him about why he's upset and what he hoped to accomplish there.  I asked him if he felt it was okay to miss sometimes and he agreed that it is.  He agreed that there's nothing wrong with having a bad day and that the most important thing is to enjoy yourself.  Once his spirits were lifted and he was ready, we returned.

 

He immediately began missing, again, just like before.  He'd glance back at my wife in fear and I would remind him that it's okay, I'm here with him and he has nothing to worry about.  Once he was confident that he could make mistakes without being chastised, he calmed down.  He continued to miss for a while, and rather than shout at him all I did was ask him what he thought he did wrong and how he should correct it.  Regardless of how it turned out, I found positive and enthusiastic criticisms to offer, even for negatives.  Such as 'you missed this one but it was very close, I'll bet you can get it next time'.

 

After about half an hour of this, he was nailing bullseyes just like usual.  All it took was a little encouragement and a sense of security.  I just wanted to post this, because the parallel struck me immediately.  The two methods - peaceful vs authoritarian - can sometimes have immediate and obvious effects.  And the real bonus - you don't have to make someone you love cry to accomplish it.

[Wuzzums]

The way you told the story seemed to me you didn't use peaceful parenting but something very similar to the classic good-cop/bad-cop strategy. Your kid was reacting bad towards the mother because why should he please someone who's abusive towards him, and was acting positively towards you to spite the bad-cop and/or because he didn't want the bad-cop to return.

 

So why didn't you ask the child what he wanted to do? If given the evidence that he's capable of hitting the targets, and he's not hitting the targets, then it's clear he doesn't want to hit the targets. So if he doesn't want to hit the targets why was he there?

[LovePrevails]

The way you told the story seemed to me you didn't use peaceful parenting but something very similar to the classic good-cop/bad-cop strategy. Your kid was reacting bad towards the mother because why should he please someone who's abusive towards him, and was acting positively towards you to spite the bad-cop and/or because he didn't want the bad-cop to return.

 

So why didn't you ask the child what he wanted to do? If given the evidence that he's capable of hitting the targets, and he's not hitting the targets, then it's clear he doesn't want to hit the targets. So if he doesn't want to hit the targets why was he there?

 

Wazzums is it necessary to be so aggressive to other posters? particularly when they are enthusiastic about making some progress in their parenting?

can you not assume they are doing what they know and gently educate ?

 

 

 

Xtort that is good progress, although I would suggest that putting so much emphasis on "getting it right" and "having high expectations" because he is good may still be steering your poor son towards allowing his self-esteem to depend on his performance.

 

It's important that he just enjoys playing and tries to get bullseyes because, hell, that's what archery is all about

not because it is "good" - I don't know how clear I am

 

 

well done improving your relationship with your son and his relationship with your wife

I hope you can continue to do that

[Wuzzums]

Wazzums is it necessary to be so aggressive to other posters? particularly when they are enthusiastic about making some progress in their parenting?

can you not assume they are doing what they know and gently educate ?

 

I didn't know I was being aggressive. That was the impression I got from the post and that was the feedback I saw fit to give. I'm willing to change my view given new data.

[LovePrevails]

It just read to me a bit like you were quashing his enthusiasm like a fragile egg of joy under a horses hoof lol

 

 

 

So why didn't you ask the child what he wanted to do? If given the evidence that he's capable of hitting the targets, and he's not hitting the targets, then it's clear he doesn't want to hit the targets. So if he doesn't want to hit the targets why was he there?

 

A communication tip: Rather than say "why didn't you" if you try "next time you could...." and followed it up with lots of useful info on how to improve his approaches. This is less likely to be read as criticism and more likely to be seen as helpful, and the advice is more likely to be accepted.

 

Just has an underlying feeling that the other person is an ok person and you are trying to help them rather than find fault.

[Wuzzums]

Fair enough. I can see how my wording seems aggressive by comparison. I'll keep that in mind next time.

[LovePrevails]

thanks I appreciate your openness to my reflections

[Xtort]

The way you told the story seemed to me you didn't use peaceful parenting but something very similar to the classic good-cop/bad-cop strategy. Your kid was reacting bad towards the mother because why should he please someone who's abusive towards him, and was acting positively towards you to spite the bad-cop and/or because he didn't want the bad-cop to return.

 

So why didn't you ask the child what he wanted to do? If given the evidence that he's capable of hitting the targets, and he's not hitting the targets, then it's clear he doesn't want to hit the targets. So if he doesn't want to hit the targets why was he there?

 

That's an interesting observation, but I don't think it's accurate.  The idea of good cop bad cop parenting involves setting rules.  One parent sets strict rules, the other parent negates those rules.  This wasn't about setting rules, this was about teaching methods.  I told him flat out if he wanted to leave, we could.  He genuinely enjoys archery, though to be honest his motivation has tapered off - resulting in us not doing it as often.  But at the time he was all for it.

 

He generates his own frustration when he misses, and that's what this was all about.  My wife would get frustrated too, and vent that frustration on the child.  This is typical of her culture, they are very collectivist and public displays of ability are taken very seriously.  If you're going to do something, it's important that you do it better than everyone else.

 

I did not set the goal of shooting accurately.  I only created a comfortable and safe atmosphere for him to do whatever he wanted to do.  Finding ways to make him laugh about shots that just go all wrong, making sure he remembers that the point is to enjoy himself.  I'm simply pointing out that the end result of this was that his performance improved very, very quickly.

 

This was a rare occurrence for us because we've had similar situations like this in the past.  My wife usually understands that it's best if I coach him, for exactly this reason.  It's just this time for some reason I decided to let her run with it and see what happened.  That was wrong on my part but it was informative. 

Wazzums is it necessary to be so aggressive to other posters? particularly when they are enthusiastic about making some progress in their parenting?

can you not assume they are doing what they know and gently educate ?

 

 

 

Xtort that is good progress, although I would suggest that putting so much emphasis on "getting it right" and "having high expectations" because he is good may still be steering your poor son towards allowing his self-esteem to depend on his performance.

 

It's important that he just enjoys playing and tries to get bullseyes because, hell, that's what archery is all about

not because it is "good" - I don't know how clear I am

 

 

well done improving your relationship with your son and his relationship with your wife

I hope you can continue to do that

 

Oh, I don't push him for accuracy at all.  He has his own motivation for that.  As you said, archery is all about nailing that circle in the middle, and it feels good when you do that.  It's just human nature.  But if his shots are all over the place, when it's time to collect his arrows I'll walk with him to the target and take a moment to find something positive about his shooting, especially if he's clearly upset with himself.  For example if his hots form a pattern, I'll point that out to him, and he always gets a kick out of that.  I guess it kind of goes back to something Stefan points out, about how you do not have to force people to do the things they want to do.  He already wants to hit the target, so I don't have to shout at him or try to bully him into doing it.  I mean to him it's like a real life video game, trying to get the arrow to go where you want it to go.

 

It's also prompted some interesting discussions about physics .  Kind of another topic, but getting kids to enjoy things is a good way to open them up to subjects they might otherwise find boring.

[Eh Steve]

I'm wondering why this thread is about archery and not about your wife screaming at your kid.

 

Kudos to you for being a good example but you need to seriously consider getting your wife to change her behavior.

[powersquash]

I'm wondering why this thread is about archery and not about your wife screaming at your kid.Kudos to you for being a good example but you need to seriously consider getting your wife to change her behavior.

I believe a more productive manner would be to see why his wife feels that yelling is productive. To the OP, you mention you allowing your wife to continue with her yelling and whatnot. Have you spoken with her about how that makes you or your son feel? How does that make you feel? I suggest doing a little RTR with her and maybe even going over some statistics about peaceful parenting. You even referred to her parenting as authoritarian in nature, that shows me you don't enjoy your son going through that. Just some questions and suggestions for you!

[LanceD]

I'm wondering why this thread is about archery and not about your wife screaming at your kid. Kudos to you for being a good example but you need to seriously consider getting your wife to change her behavior.

Yeah this is what I've been thinking the whole time I've been reading this thread. OP it seems like you enjoy being the guy who saves your son from your wife's bad behavior. When really what you need to be doing is addressing the way your wife acts. Whenever my wife or I step out of line the other is very quick to intervene. The child deserves to be defended and abuse by the parent needs to be stopped. Your wife behaves badly, you need to show your son what a man does when the strong are preying upon the weak and defend him. Then you need to help your wife see the error in her ways instead of using her culture as an excuse.