I haven't watched a Stef video in six months.

[DaVinci]

Long story short, there is a part of me that is just overwhelmed by the amount of truth in the videos and I kind of can't take it. It's like trying to cram five people through the same door and they are all escaping a fire. I've basically had to take a hiatus to let my mind catch up.

 

Not to mention that when I talk about the stuff Stef talks about with people in real life or with others online I am often times met with people who dismiss me, tell me I'm stupid, laugh at me, tell me that "well, everyone has an opinion", etc and I just can't understand where this animosity is coming from.

 

Does anyone else know what I am talking about? Anyone experienced something similar?

[ThatAtheistPlace]

1) Denial: Whatever, everything I know can't possibly be bullshit

2) Anger: Why in the hell did everyone feed me this bullshit?!

3) Bargaining: Perhaps I can still maintain some sort of relationship with the bullshitters

4) Depression: Why can't I unlearn this and just swallow the bullshit?!

5) Acceptance: Fuck the bullshit.

[Annick]

I think I know what you're talking about.

 

Years ago, I was journaling a lot in order to put order in my thoughts and find what I thought was the truth about relationships and abuse, etc. At some point, when I started seeing how everything fit together, my mind started making connections so quickly that I couldn't keep up with my writing. It felt as if my mind had started working on its own. Once it started seeing the truth, everything became obvious. 

 

During all my years of journaling, the same thoughts would turn in circles and I'd feel blocked and frustrated. But once I reached a certain point, the thoughts started moving forward and connecting to each other in a big network.

 

What I call the "enlightenment" period was extremely fun, exhilarating, fascinating for a while. Until it became frustrating because I found that so very few people are willing to explore those ideas. 

 

I've been through phases where I would ponder if I am totally wrong in my views since the big majority of people think differently. And I need to constantly remind myself that it's not because everybody thinks the same thing that they are right.

 

And I much prefer knowing what I know and seeing what I see, even if it feels somewhat lonelier, than going back to all the bullshit that people prefer to hold on to. Denial is the strongest and most horrible disease. It is impossible to shake people out of their bullshit. So we have to enjoy every person we come across who has that motivation to look for the truth.

[DaVinci]

1) Denial: Whatever, everything I know can't possibly be bullshit

2) Anger: Why in the hell did everyone feed me this bullshit?!

3) Bargaining: Perhaps I can still maintain some sort of relationship with the bullshitters

4) Depression: Why can't I unlearn this and just swallow the bullshit?!

5) Acceptance: Fuck the bullshit.

 

Yup. I'm definitely in the Acceptance stage. I just wish others were more willing to come along on the journey.

I think I know what you're talking about.

 

Years ago, I was journaling a lot in order to put order in my thoughts and find what I thought was the truth about relationships and abuse, etc. At some point, when I started seeing how everything fit together, my mind started making connections so quickly that I couldn't keep up with my writing. It felt as if my mind had started working on its own. Once it started seeing the truth, everything became obvious. 

 

During all my years of journaling, the same thoughts would turn in circles and I'd feel blocked and frustrated. But once I reached a certain point, the thoughts started moving forward and connecting to each other in a big network.

 

What I call the "enlightenment" period was extremely fun, exhilarating, fascinating for a while. Until it became frustrating because I found that so very few people are willing to explore those ideas. 

 

I've been through phases where I would ponder if I am totally wrong in my views since the big majority of people think differently. And I need to constantly remind myself that it's not because everybody thinks the same thing that they are right.

 

And I much prefer knowing what I know and seeing what I see, even if it feels somewhat lonelier, than going back to all the bullshit that people prefer to hold on to. Denial is the strongest and most horrible disease. It is impossible to shake people out of their bullshit. So we have to enjoy every person we come across who has that motivation to look for the truth.

 

I've had very similar thoughts. Especially about how lonely this road seems. It strikes me as odd how many people, even people who claim to be reasonable, don't want to walk this path.

[Culain]

You really know how to make the saying "What's the difference between a Minarchist and an Anarchist? 6 Months." into a reality.

[Annick]

I've had very similar thoughts. Especially about how lonely this road seems. It strikes me as odd how many people, even people who claim to be reasonable, don't want to walk this path.

 

I've had quite a few moments when I wished I could just shake people around me ! 

Seriously though, there is this question that I think I'll never find the answer to: what makes the difference between someone who starts walking the path, who starts seeing and someone who prefers to stay in denial ? I know that the motivation needs to come from the person, you cannot nudge somebody into seeing. But what is the element that allows some people to take that step ?

[Stefan Molyneux]

1) Denial: Whatever, everything I know can't possibly be bullshit

2) Anger: Why in the hell did everyone feed me this bullshit?!

3) Bargaining: Perhaps I can still maintain some sort of relationship with the bullshitters

4) Depression: Why can't I unlearn this and just swallow the bullshit?!

5) Acceptance: Fuck the bullshit.

That is brilliant, reposted on Facebook, thank you so much

[DaVinci]

I've had quite a few moments when I wished I could just shake people around me ! 

Seriously though, there is this question that I think I'll never find the answer to: what makes the difference between someone who starts walking the path, who starts seeing and someone who prefers to stay in denial ? I know that the motivation needs to come from the person, you cannot nudge somebody into seeing. But what is the element that allows some people to take that step ?

 

Good question. I'm not sure I have the answer.

 

I know for me I've always felt like something was wrong with the world. Something about it always felt off. Like there was a fog obscuring my vision. Then I started hearing people say things that made me think "Why have I never heard this before?" or "Why wasn't I taught this?", and the fog lifted a little. No one "changed my mind", it was just that new information allowed me to make new conclusions about the world.

 

So, I guess the question is why does this same thing not happen with everyone when presented with this "new information". I think part of the answer might lie in the way that people try to discover the truth on their own. That someone feels like the world around them is wrong and they then spend many years looking for answers and when they finally find the answers they are looking for and feel like they have reached that "A-ha" (not the band) moment, someone is there to show them that they are still not quite seeing the whole picture. I think the sense of accomplishment and of personal victory that truth has been obtained and that truth feeling like it is being torn down might make people recoil away from accepting the truths being presented.

 

So, I think some people feel like they have already found truth. That they have already cleared the fog. So being told, "Yeah, there is still fog. You are still not seeing clearly." is an upsetting thing that makes people retreat into a shell. 

 

This is just me taking a guess at this problem. I really don't know. I'm sure someone here who is more versed in this type of situation might be able to provide more insight into this.

[Armitage]

1) Denial: Whatever, everything I know can't possibly be bullshit

2) Anger: Why in the hell did everyone feed me this bullshit?!

3) Bargaining: Perhaps I can still maintain some sort of relationship with the bullshitters

4) Depression: Why can't I unlearn this and just swallow the bullshit?!

5) Acceptance: Fuck the bullshit.

6) Gregariousness: Let's find some people who fuck the bullshit too.

7) Honeymoon: Aren't we great?

8) Frustration: Why do these people put up with so much other bullshit?

9) Quest: Let's explain the other bullshit to them. 

10) Ethnography: They really have no idea what I'm talking about.

11) Gnoseology: What is the nature of explanation, comprehension and human consciousness?

12) Ostracism: They seem quite a happy little bunch together, secure from crazy people like me.

13) Graduation: That's some wonderful master's thesis material!

[cherapple]

During all my years of journaling, the same thoughts would turn in circles and I'd feel blocked and frustrated. 

 

That was my painful experience of journaling, as well as therapy, reading, and all my attempts at self-knowledge before philosophy – and not the stuff I studied in college – helped me stop spinning my wheels and finally gain traction.

 

DaVinci, do you journal and are you working on self-knowledge? Usually when you are stuck, it means there's something unconscious is going on. The same is true for helplessness. It is rooted in history, when we were children and we really were helpless. What was your experience of feeling overwhelm and of talking to people, or trying to be heard, while you were growing up? Does it feel like it's being recreated or repeated in any way in the present?

[DaVinci]

That was my painful experience of journaling, as well as therapy, reading, and all my attempts at self-knowledge before philosophy – and not the stuff I studied in college – helped me stop spinning my wheels and finally gain traction.

 

DaVinci, do you journal and are you working on self-knowledge? Usually when you are stuck, it means there's something unconscious is going on. The same is true for helplessness. It is rooted in history, when we were children and we really were helpless. What was your experience of feeling overwhelm and of talking to people, or trying to be heard, while you were growing up? Does it feel like it's being recreated or repeated in any way in the present?

 

Yes, I'm working on self knowledge. I actually have been for a long time now. I've also just started what I might call a journal, but probably not in the typical sense.

 

I think part of what got me stuck was the way people were reacting to my opinions both in real life and especially online. In an effort to try to understand many of the things Stef presents in his videos, and books, like UPB, I would join debates online where I could present some of his ideas within the framework of the debate. I sort of treated the debate as a chance to work through some of the material, like how you might be taught to do a statistics problem but you don't really know how until you tackle a half dozen problems. But what I didn't count on was the overwhelming animosity I got to having a contrary point of view, and how many people would gang up on me in a forum. So what I saw a chance to learn became a typical internet flame fest.

 

Contrast that with here where I feel like these boards have more open minded people, but the volume of people responding to a topic is much less and as such it seems to take a lot longer for any one issue to get thoroughly examined to my satisfaction. This topic for example has 10 replies and a little over 100 views, In fact most of the topics in this Misc board have under 10 replies, and most also have over a hundred views if not more. So it seems as if lots of people are reading, but not discussing. Yes, that could be because someone else has said what they wanted to say, and they don't feel like they can contribute, but given that I could have posted a similar topic on a half dozen other boards and got 30 or 40 responses by now it makes me feel frustrated. It's like I am getting too little feedback, (not enough varied opinions), or too harsh feedback. (being ganged up on by a-holes)

[cherapple]

That happened to me quite a bit in the beginning, too. After a while, you learn who to engage in philosophical conversation, and who not to. You find several friends with whom you can discuss ideas that are of interest to you, whom you can trust not to attack you, and who want to hear more from you. Quality, for me, is more satisfying than quantity. Talking for one or three hours with one person is better than debating with twenty. 

 

I can identify with feeling frustrated about people's reactions. Do you think it's the truth itself that's overwhelming you – you want the truth – or the defenses that most people have against it? Defensive people want to overwhelm you because it gets you to stop saying whatever is overwhelming for *them* to hear. In other words, is it *your* overwhelm that you feel, or theirs? 

[cynicist]

Yes, that could be because someone else has said what they wanted to say, and they don't feel like they can contribute, but given that I could have posted a similar topic on a half dozen other boards and got 30 or 40 responses by now it makes me feel frustrated. It's like I am getting too little feedback, (not enough varied opinions), or too harsh feedback. (being ganged up on by a-holes)

 

It's kind of funny, but if I had to guess I would say it's because most people on this board are willing to doubt and question and are not very comfortable with giving answers due to uncertainty, relative to the rest of the internet where people are more than happy to tell you what to think or how you are wrong, and are very confident in those answers.

 

I hope you are focusing on real life friends and not trying to talk to random people about these topics, because that would be an exercise in masochism if I ever saw one. You say that you can't understand the animosity but I don't think that is true. You know how drastically different this stuff is; How it challenges people on ethics, their parents, society as a whole, their ideas on what is true. Nobody wants to talk about these things because it shows how messed up the world is (their relationships primarily) and people don't want to see that. So as soon as you bring it up they get uncomfortable (and feel like you are attacking them) and they lash out in order to shut you down. You know this, I'm just refreshing you.

 

If you want a better sense of how many people are willing to listen and be open and honest about these ideas, just rewatch the Matrix and compare the number of people on the ship to the number of people shown to be plugged in, that ratio is about right. So find your crew and forget about trying to engage the masses unless you are broadcasting like Stefan, because debating random people on the internet about this stuff is just going to make you miserable.

[DaVinci]

That happened to me quite a bit in the beginning, too. After a while, you learn who to engage in philosophical conversation, and who not to. You find several friends with whom you can discuss ideas that are of interest to you, whom you can trust not to attack you, and who want to hear more from you. Quality, for me, is more satisfying than quantity. Talking for one or three hours with one person is better than debating with twenty. 

 

I can identify with feeling frustrated about people's reactions. Do you think it's the truth itself that's overwhelming you – you want the truth – or the defenses that most people have against it? Defensive people want to overwhelm you because it gets you to stop saying whatever is overwhelming for *them* to hear. In other words, is it *your* overwhelm that you feel, or theirs? 

 

I most certainly desire the truth. However as I mentioned before I will bring up a topic or enter a debate to practice what I know and challenge myself to learn more, but eventually I get ganged up on to the point where I can't keep up, or just flat out get shut down when someone wants to end the conversation and that is where the learning ceases. So, I would say in one on one "in person" conversations it is the overwhelm of the person I am talking with, where as online it is probably also the overwhelm of who I am debating, but I am outnumbered and outgunned and so eventually just have to bow out so I can move on to other things that will actually benefit my desire to learn.

 

It's kind of funny, but if I had to guess I would say it's because most people on this board are willing to doubt and question and are not very comfortable with giving answers due to uncertainty, relative to the rest of the internet where people are more than happy to tell you what to think or how you are wrong, and are very confident in those answers.

 

I hope you are focusing on real life friends and not trying to talk to random people about these topics, because that would be an exercise in masochism if I ever saw one. You say that you can't understand the animosity but I don't think that is true. You know how drastically different this stuff is; How it challenges people on ethics, their parents, society as a whole, their ideas on what is true. Nobody wants to talk about these things because it shows how messed up the world is (their relationships primarily) and people don't want to see that. So as soon as you bring it up they get uncomfortable (and feel like you are attacking them) and they lash out in order to shut you down. You know this, I'm just refreshing you.

 

If you want a better sense of how many people are willing to listen and be open and honest about these ideas, just rewatch the Matrix and compare the number of people on the ship to the number of people shown to be plugged in, that ratio is about right. So find your crew and forget about trying to engage the masses unless you are broadcasting like Stefan, because debating random people on the internet about this stuff is just going to make you miserable.

 

I can understand what you are saying. I see a lot of really knowledgeable people here and some of the debates I can't even keep up with. I just wish those people who feel uncertain would still post. I feel uncertain about half the stuff I post and worry that I sound silly, but I still post it.

[Lians]

It's interesting how the conversation has shifted from the original topic. If you lived alone on a desert island, would it be just as hard to accept the same truths? I have another question. If you had to estimate, to what percentage are you applying the philosophy you learn here to your own life? Living it, not talking about it. After all, knowing how a car is built and how it works doesn't make you a good driver.

 

I'll give you another metaphor. You don't want to be the guy that only watches sports on TV and never gets off the couch. His addiction to watching sports prevents him from actually doing something about his health. It's toxic. From what you've posted, it appears to me that you're abusing yourself with truth. As cynicist noted, you already know how people are going to react. Why do you keep engaging them? Even if you get as good as Stef, you'll still face the same reactions. You know this as well.

 

Let's say you miraculously manage to turn all the people in your life to reason. The implications here are quite clear. You won't have to struggle to live your values because those values are already widely accepted. To put this in perspective, none of us have to struggle to live our anti-slavery values because slavery is widely condemned. In my opinion, expecting people to change before you change yourself reveals a lot of uncertainty about your own commitment. Aren't you projecting this kind of uncertainty on board members who aren't certain about participating in the conversation?

 

I can really sympathise with the difficulty of living philosophy, but continuing to learn philosophy without applying it will make you even more unhappy. Right now, philosophy is a club that other people use to harm you. Don't let them do that. Try to figure out why you feel drawn to getting pummelled by those who are beyond saving.

[DaVinci]

It's interesting how the conversation has shifted from the original topic. If you lived alone on a desert island, would it be just as hard to accept the same truths? I have another question. If you had to estimate, to what percentage are you applying the philosophy you learn here to your own life? Living it, not talking about it. After all, knowing how a car is built and how it works doesn't make you a good driver.

 

I'll give you another metaphor. You don't want to be the guy that only watches sports on TV and never gets off the couch. His addiction to watching sports prevents him from actually doing something about his health. It's toxic. From what you've posted, it appears to me that you're abusing yourself with truth. As cynicist noted, you already know how people are going to react. Why do you keep engaging them? Even if you get as good as Stef, you'll still face the same reactions. You know this as well.

 

Let's say you miraculously manage to turn all the people in your life to reason. The implications here are quite clear. You won't have to struggle to live your values because those values are already widely accepted. To put this in perspective, none of us have to struggle to live our anti-slavery values because slavery is widely condemned. In my opinion, expecting people to change before you change yourself reveals a lot of uncertainty about your own commitment. Aren't you projecting this kind of uncertainty on board members who aren't certain about participating in the conversation?

 

I can really sympathise with the difficulty of living philosophy, but continuing to learn philosophy without applying it will make you even more unhappy. Right now, philosophy is a club that other people use to harm you. Don't let them do that. Try to figure out why you feel drawn to getting pummelled by those who are beyond saving.

 

You mention applying philosophy to how I live my life. Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

Also, I'm not having trouble accepting truth, I'm just having trouble learning it in a way that suits my style and so get overloaded at times with some of the concepts. This is why I talk about these concepts with others online, so that I can work through what I understand and what I don't understand.

[Lians]

You mention applying philosophy to how I live my life. Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

Applying philosophy to your relationships. Read Real-Time Relationships on that.

 

Also, I'm not having trouble accepting truth, I'm just having trouble learning it in a way that suits my style and so get overloaded at times with some of the concepts. This is why I talk about these concepts with others online, so that I can work through what I understand and what I don't understand.

 

You got to anti-philosophical places on the internet to discuss the philosophy that we talk about here? Places where people verbally abuse you?

[DaVinci]

Applying philosophy to your relationships. Read Real-Time Relationships on that.

 

 

You got to anti-philosophical places on the internet to discuss the philosophy that we talk about here? Places where people verbally abuse you?

They were not toxic environments at first, and to be fair in my travels around this site I have seen some name calling, passive-aggressive behavior and other forms of verbal abuse. So I'm not purposefully going places to get abused.

[cynicist]

You mention applying philosophy to how I live my life. Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

Also, I'm not having trouble accepting truth, I'm just having trouble learning it in a way that suits my style and so get overloaded at times with some of the concepts. This is why I talk about these concepts with others online, so that I can work through what I understand and what I don't understand.

 

You are having trouble accepting the truth about those who don't want to accept the truth. This is not meant to be negative, as I don't think you are naive, but you are putting these ideas out there with the expectation that other people will respond rationally. I'm curious why it is surprising to you that they don't, considering that if you are talking about virtue you are basically putting their virtue into question if their values are opposite to yours. Maybe you see things differently, if so I would be interested in hearing more about that.

 

I have done this in the past as well. I mean mistaking my willingness to accept rational ideas as a common trait among people. That if I only presented the correct arguments I could convince anyone like I had been convinced and that if it wasn't working it was because I had been unclear. This just doesn't reflect what occurs in reality.

[DaVinci]

You are having trouble accepting the truth about those who don't want to accept the truth. This is not meant to be negative, as I don't think you are naive, but you are putting these ideas out there with the expectation that other people will respond rationally. I'm curious why it is surprising to you that they don't, considering that if you are talking about virtue you are basically putting their virtue into question if their values are opposite to yours. Maybe you see things differently, if so I would be interested in hearing more about that.

 

I have done this in the past as well. I mean mistaking my willingness to accept rational ideas as a common trait among people. That if I only presented the correct arguments I could convince anyone like I had been convinced and that if it wasn't working it was because I had been unclear. This just doesn't reflect what occurs in reality.

I am surprised how certain people react based on previous conversations I've had where they seemed rational. So in subsequent discussions I was surprised to see attitudes towards listening and discussing become more dismissive and hostile. When this happens I will usually switch from trying to discuss whatever idea we were discussing to try and understand why they feel the way they do.

 

I guess this is similar to Stef talking about how many atheists just switch from worshiping a God to worshiping the State. That they talk about reason and evidence but still have irrational views. So in that sense I usually am trying to make sense of what is making someone be that way.

[cynicist]

Yeah I understand what you mean and I totally get pursuing that with friends. Generally I think if someone is rational in some areas and not others that it has to do with some kind of cost or challenge in their personal lives that would come with accepting that idea. So it makes sense to ask them about it and try and get an understanding of why they might have trouble with it.

 

I don't think this makes any sense when applied to strangers or internet debates. I think this board is an exception because people who are interested in this conversation are already demonstrating a willingness to challenge themselves.

[DaVinci]

Yeah I understand what you mean and I totally get pursuing that with friends. Generally I think if someone is rational in some areas and not others that it has to do with some kind of cost or challenge in their personal lives that would come with accepting that idea. So it makes sense to ask them about it and try and get an understanding of why they might have trouble with it.

 

I don't think this makes any sense when applied to strangers or internet debates. I think this board is an exception because people who are interested in this conversation are already demonstrating a willingness to challenge themselves.

 

Yeah, I think that is why I have been approaching internet debates more from the perspective of having someone from an opposing viewpoint challenge me so that I am forced to tackle the material in a more thorough way.

[cynicist]

Yeah, I think that is why I have been approaching internet debates more from the perspective of having someone from an opposing viewpoint challenge me so that I am forced to tackle the material in a more thorough way.

 

I did something similar with friends before I discovered FDR. I always enjoyed participating in arguments as a way to sharpen my own thinking. As long as you recognize when you are irritated or feel a compulsion to respond I think it can be a healthy thing. These days I'm a lot more selective about who I argue with. I like to think that's a sign of a stronger understanding on my part but it could just as easily be a lower tolerance for frustration.

[DaVinci]

I did something similar with friends before I discovered FDR. I always enjoyed participating in arguments as a way to sharpen my own thinking. As long as you recognize when you are irritated or feel a compulsion to respond I think it can be a healthy thing. These days I'm a lot more selective about who I argue with. I like to think that's a sign of a stronger understanding on my part but it could just as easily be a lower tolerance for frustration.

 

I am certainly trying to pay attention to when a conversation is not a discussion or debate of ideas, and instead becomes something more toxic that I should jump ship on. This actually makes me think of another topic I posted here recently where I brought up the idea of how defending my viewpoints in the past has gotten me met with animosity, and I am the one who gets accused of being harsh and unrelenting.

 

It seems debate centered around having to defend yourself from others can lead to some odd situations where you can end up being made to look like the bad guy.

[Carl Green]

Have you watched the Bomb in the Brain series of videos?  It explains why people often don't/can't respond to and accept a rational statement if it causes them anxiety. 

 

A paraphrasing of it is that if someone has a hyperactive fight-or-flight mechanism (which can occur from early abuse) their defenses will go up in the brain before the statement can even reach the parts of the brain that control logic and reason.  So, when you realize this is happening you're pretty much wasting your time attempting to change someones mind about anything.

[cynicist]

I am certainly trying to pay attention to when a conversation is not a discussion or debate of ideas, and instead becomes something more toxic that I should jump ship on. This actually makes me think of another topic I posted here recently where I brought up the idea of how defending my viewpoints in the past has gotten me met with animosity, and I am the one who gets accused of being harsh and unrelenting.

 

It seems debate centered around having to defend yourself from others can lead to some odd situations where you can end up being made to look like the bad guy.

 

I don't think anyone here has been trying to make you look like the bad guy. If an atheist friend came to me and said he couldn't understand where all the animosity comes from when he tries to discuss the idea that god doesn't exist in a church full of catholics, I would want to understand why he is trying to pursue those ideas with people who are quite invested in the opposite. Anyway if you think this discussion has become toxic then I'll bow out, I certainly didn't intend that.

[DaVinci]

I don't think anyone here has been trying to make you look like the bad guy. If an atheist friend came to me and said he couldn't understand where all the animosity comes from when he tries to discuss the idea that god doesn't exist in a church full of catholics, I would want to understand why he is trying to pursue those ideas with people who are quite invested in the opposite. Anyway if you think this discussion has become toxic then I'll bow out, I certainly didn't intend that.

 

No, I'm not talking about you in my post, or anyone else here. I'm just talking about past conversations I've had in other places. Sorry if I didn't communicate myself very well.

Have you watched the Bomb in the Brain series of videos?  It explains why people often don't/can't respond to and accept a rational statement if it causes them anxiety. 

 

A paraphrasing of it is that if someone has a hyperactive fight-or-flight mechanism (which can occur from early abuse) their defenses will go up in the brain before the statement can even reach the parts of the brain that control logic and reason.  So, when you realize this is happening you're pretty much wasting your time attempting to change someones mind about anything.

 

I have seen that series, but thanks for reminding me about them. I will have to retake a look at those.

[cynicist]

No, I'm not talking about you in my post, or anyone else here. I'm just talking about past conversations I've had in other places. Sorry if I didn't communicate myself very well.

 

Oh no my mistake, I thought you were referring to this thread since the topic was similar.

[DaVinci]

Oh no my mistake, I thought you were referring to this thread since the topic was similar.

 

Not a problem

[Megatron]

Yup. I'm definitely in the Acceptance stage. I just wish others were more willing to come along on the journey.

 

No you're not, if you were you wouldn't hesitate to listen to Stefan's material.. 

 

I think you're in the Bargaining stage.. perhaps if you stop listening it will go away.. perhaps ??

 

I think before you dive in the long YouTube sessions you start with the the podcasts, one at the time at your own pace..

[DaVinci]

No you're not, if you were you wouldn't hesitate to listen to Stefan's material.. 

 

I think you're in the Bargaining stage.. perhaps if you stop listening it will go away.. perhaps ??

 

I think before you dive in the long YouTube sessions you start with the the podcasts, one at the time at your own pace..

Megatron? I thought you died and became Galvatron?

 

But seriously, I guess I should have phrased my original post a little better. It seems like people took me saying "I am overwhelmed by the truth" as meaning "I don't accept the truth". That is not the case.

 

It's just a big meal, and I have a tiny fork and I have to take a bathroom break every now and then to let things settle down.

[ThatAtheistPlace]

Wow!  Thanks y'all and thanks Stefan.  This is so me right now.

 

I gotta agree with other posters, DaVinci....  Being stuck doesn't sound like acceptance at all.  How've things been going in the new year?  :-)

[DaVinci]

Wow!  Thanks y'all and thanks Stefan.  This is so me right now.

 

 

I gotta agree with other posters, DaVinci....  Being stuck doesn't sound like acceptance at all.  How've things been going in the new year?  :-)

 

Well, like I said maybe I should have phrased the original topic a little differently, or expanded on my original post a little more. I didn't think everyone was going to think I was not accepting the truth by saying I was taking a break for a while.

[MysterionMuffles]

Wow!  Thanks y'all and thanks Stefan.  This is so me right now.

 

I gotta agree with other posters, DaVinci....  Being stuck doesn't sound like acceptance at all.  How've things been going in the new year?  :-)

 

LOL that gif makes me wish gifs would work for Facebook.

[dsayers]

I am surprised how certain people react based on previous conversations I've had where they seemed rational. So in subsequent discussions I was surprised to see attitudes towards listening and discussing become more dismissive and hostile. When this happens I will usually switch from trying to discuss whatever idea we were discussing to try and understand why they feel the way they do.

 

If you are somebody who is improving your life, you will be perceived of as a threat by anybody who has room for improvement (humans are fallible, so this is everybody) and prefers the more instantly-gratifying not bothering to improve. That's why they behave the way they do.

 

If they are hostile to you for no reason other than you understand or speak the truth, I wouldn't edit myself for their benefit. I would distance myself from them. If they decide they'd rather be without you in their lives than having you and your acceptance of truth, this would be a form of improving yourself.