Ashton Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 What is wrong with people?Am i wrong, or are people broken?I was having a discussion with some people about weather or not subscription based TV services are a necessity or a luxury and if you where in a financially difficult situation would you cancel it. It basically ended with them getting really upset with me and calling me judgemental and argumentative. Yet i wasn't arguing or being judgemental.I experience this all the time, people do not like hearing truths and it confounds me as to why, should i not tell people the errors in their judgements? Should i just keep the truths to my self and instead conform to the lie?I get so frustrated when a clearly obvious error in a discussion, like a contradiction, is being completely ignored to justify their attitudes.I have yet to meet anyone in person who is on the same level as my self, (Not implying any kind of moral superiority) with their dedication to logic and truth.My mum smokes, she knows its bad for you, she knows it might kill her, yet she refuses to engage in a conversation about it.My monster in law pays to go on holidays they can't afford, i bring it up with them and they get quite offended and justify it because its the only break they have.It just seems the world is filled with people and their contradictions, never willing to change their habits. I'm sorry for the rant.
Alan C. Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Yes, many people are broken, and most are stupid. The welfare-state incentivizes imprudence and slovenly behavior by insulating people from consequences. TV hasn't been around that long. My dad saw TV for the first time in the 1950s when he was in his early twenties. Obviously, TV is a luxury, and it's wise for people to cancel TV if they're having financial problems. I know people who live paycheck to paycheck and refuse to cancel their cable TV.
Emanuel Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Why do you want these people to be right? Is it their wish for you to confront their errors? Unless you know someone is dedicated to growth, truth, philosophy and all the good rational stuff, YOU, not your message, is seen as hostile. Don't forget that people are never angry about arguments, especially if these come from philosophy. Philosophy is you. If they get upset when you are honest with them, it's you that they cannot tolerate. My question would be: Why do you want all these people to be right? Why even have these people who dislike you in your life? I know these are hard questions, but you must know what your goals are in these relationships. And every minute you spend in a relationship that is not fulfilling to you, you are moving away from people who you can have these relationships with.
Ashton Posted January 5, 2014 Author Posted January 5, 2014 Why do you want these people to be right? Is it their wish for you to confront their errors? Unless you know someone is dedicated to growth, truth, philosophy and all the good rational stuff, YOU, not your message, is seen as hostile. Don't forget that people are never angry about arguments, especially if these come from philosophy. Philosophy is you. If they get upset when you are honest with them, it's you that they cannot tolerate. My question would be: Why do you want all these people to be right? Why even have these people who dislike you in your life? I know these are hard questions, but you must know what your goals are in these relationships. And every minute you spend in a relationship that is not fulfilling to you, you are moving away from people who you can have these relationships with. If no one will confront their errors, then who will? Is it wrong to want to help people either by push or by nudge? I know self enlightenment is fantastic, but some people can't get their without help.I'm not implying they dislike me, I'm saying they got upset and angry.The relationships that are not fulfilling I generally move on from, my mother and wife's family I can't leave behind because of the upset it would cause to not only them but my family and that is not something I'm willing to force upon them.
Nathan H. Hoffner Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I'd try being a "pull debater" by using the socratic method instead of trying to push and nudge people into change or enlightenment. When you push these statist with truth and reason, they will just push back harder with the opposite. And if you "pull" with questions, and nothing comes out but nonsense, then move on and focus your time on living your values and striving for virtue and happiness. Attain happiness in your life first, then you'll influence others to change through example.Most people aren't worth your time since they reject reason and refuse to change. Also, maybe before debating, establish the ground rules for the debate. Once they refuse to use logic and be curious / humble, then you know to move on. Just my $0.02.
Ashton Posted January 5, 2014 Author Posted January 5, 2014 I'd try being a "pull debater" by using the socratic method instead of trying to push and nudge people into change or enlightenment. When you push these statist with truth and reason, they will just push back harder with the opposite. And if you "pull" with questions, and nothing comes out but nonsense, then move on and focus your time on living your values and striving for virtue and happiness. Attain happiness in your life first, then you'll influence others to change through example.Most people aren't worth your time since they reject reason and refuse to change. Also, maybe before debating, establish the ground rules for the debate. Once they refuse to use logic and be curious / humble, then you know to move on. Just my $0.02. Appreciate the reply. It was a spur of the moment type discussion, so sadly we didn't have time for ground rules The pull method is interesting, i'm assuming you mean by using leading questions?
aFireInside Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 i think tv is not necessary it might be helpful sometimes (rarely). And, they are bad people for getting mad when you express yourself. But the saying ----> don't bite the hand that feeds . is true, because if you are dependent on them to live you should not rock the boat. Until you are grounded finically and emotionally . Im in the same situation, and all i do is not talk to them , well the least i can . And worry only about myself .. So i would advice you on making a plan to move out some time in the future when you can ... and stick with it .
DaVinci Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I'm having a similar discussion here. http://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/38270-what-is-the-difference-between-a-bully-and-someone-who-stands-up-for-themselves/
Nathan H. Hoffner Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 The pull method is interesting, i'm assuming you mean by using leading questions? Yeah, it seems to me that they have the most explaining to do to justify the violent Statist system, especially in light of all of the damning evidence against it today. Maybe try these. http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_287_Effective_Discussions.mp3 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_292_Freedom_Through_Debt.mp3 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_280_How_Do_You_Know.mp3 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1320_Bait_n_Switch.mp3 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1327_Upping_Debate_Quality.mp3 http://media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_1331_Loving_Your_Opponent.mp3
Armitage Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 My guess is, the environment keeps people stupid, because it doesn't give enough opportunities to display virtue. Our daily life is so regimented that it is very rare to even have a discussion about anything. It's not like we have any discussion clubs. In TV (Europe) politicians get together for name-calling for the first hour or so, before they get to any serious matters. At work you just work. At home, it's either alone time or family time... The rest what people do is having a mindless fun with friends, they see intellect as a working tool and they put it aside when they get home from work. I think the only way not to be stunted intellectually is to learn English and visit American/global forums, especially disagreeing forums. Agreement is pleasant and productive, but disagreement is exciting and educative. Most people can't handle disagreement in real life, some even can't over the net. "The free minds of the twenty-first century challenge everything that seems self-evident. They like to try on mentally different points of view. They search for their hidden assumptions and delight in bringing them to the surface. They are experts at changing their minds. "There are many people I especially like because they do not share my points of view, I enjoy talking with them when they vigorously defend a position that contradicts mine. I know I learn more when I find people with ideas that challenge mine." Can you guess who is the author of that quote? Hint: the same author as this: "It is recognized that if each individual is to have a maximum of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," there must be opportunities from full privacy to full community participation in all activities. One should be able to choose whatever meets his needs best at the time. All planning is determined by the varied and changing preferences of individuals, not by what someone else thinks is "good for them."
GRosado Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 This probably should've been posted on Self-Knowledge. I empathize with you same goes on with me & all the people I have interactions with.
SuzieDavis Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Ive dealt with the same things. You are not alone. Especially about the cable tv debate. We havent had cable in a few years. We could afford it, but we are saving 1300 a year not having the traditional cable. We use amazon prime (something we would have bought reguardeless of the prime tv shows), we have netflix and hulu. ANything we cant find there we just buy per episode. which is sitll cheaper then the 1300 a year for cable. When i have brought this up to numerous people, they think im crazy. "i couldnt live with out my tv!" its like well okay waste your money then! Usually with close friends and family they see wow! She has about 120 more in her pocket a month and some have them have cancelled their tv. So no you are not alone. And remember people are selfish. Who cares if we dont have the cash, lets take a vaca cause i deserve it!!! Well you might deserve it but if you dont have the means to pay for it then wth are you doing? Not everybody can be as smart as us ; ) lol
xSocrates Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Wow, you sound exactly like me. I too always wonder if there's something wrong with me if I'm thinking there is with everybody else. People are so irrational and I'm very lonely because of it.
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