aFireInside Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I want to do a video on this. I have a theory but i want to get your thoughts on it. Any feedback is welcomed. ----------------------------------------------------------------- My theory is: they are simply jealous . because the insults are usually towards him being gay, which doesn't make sense because even if he was gay why would they hate him specifically ? when there are allot of gay artist. And usually he gets threats that he is going to get neutered. They feel threatened, since Justin obviously has a big female following. And in todays society the alpha males can be men who have lots of money, not just mussels and good looks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
dsayers Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 For one, it's an indication of failed priorities. I mean, why is he more popular than say, Stefan Molyneux? Another aspect is values. The arts have their place and I enjoy good tunes and beautiful voices. Is a million teens screaming at the very sight of him the correct response to whatever value he's perceived to have? I don't think so. I would wager there's resentment in that he did the heavy lifting himself. The crabs that would rather wallow in the barrel try to pull down the few that try to climb their way out. That sort of thing. Stef recently did a youtube video about Ghandi. It began with a general evaluation of the damages of worship. It's worthwhile material and relevant to the topic I think.
Wuzzums Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I hate Justin Bieber because people keep bringing up how much they hate Justin Bieber.
TheRobin Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Might also be in part because he kind of got "free" fame and fortune without much struggle. (Maybe not true I dont even know).Like if he was a talented musicion for years had albums and struggled to be known and then became famous I dopn't think he'd get the hate he does, but with the modern music industry, people that look pretty and are willing to do the job get picked to be made famous without too much initial effort on their own I think.That being said, I look at him more in a sad way. Growing up like this, being the golden goose for other people who want to squeeze out all they can of him. Probably very rarely getting real honest feedback or even true empathy I could imagine. Certainly not someone whom I would ever want to switch places with.
PatrickC Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I personally don't like his music. But I understand that is just a preference on my part and doesn't say much abouthis abilities. That said, jealousy can and is always an issue for some folk of course. Particularly from a fella that garner lots of wealth and female adoration to him.
nathanm Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I hate that guy! His fucking dams are blocking up the water flow to my picturesque grain mill!
Holo Cene Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I think men hate Justin Bieber because he projects onto life the things they hate about themselves, the fakeness and the identity issues. They want to see a confident man who is strong and secure, while Bieber is none of those things. He has not learned any of the lessons of life, that good parents and people would have taught him. All he has learned is the superficial, shallow narcissism given to him by sychophants and predatory sociopaths and this in turn is reflected on grown men who see this same immaturity within themselves and they rail against it because they rail against their own deficiencies. Just wasting energy on hate is enough of an indication of how personal it is..
PatrickC Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I hate that guy! His fucking dams are blocking up the water flow to my picturesque grain mill! Ha, yes, who is this toothy imposter..
Wesley Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I hate that guy! His fucking dams are blocking up the water flow to my picturesque grain mill! This really makes me want to get a pet beaver and name him Justin. I can then come home to Justin beaver, rub Justin beaver's belly, take Justin beaver for a walk, and cuddle with Justin beaver on the couch... I am sure there are other things I can do with Justin beaver too. I will have to see.
nathanm Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Not to mention people can come over and make Naked Gun references. But in all seriousness, in the reference to the pop star, if anyone actually envies that guy it's really sad. If you are born exceptionally good looking and have at least some modicum of talent you will be raised upon a platform in this society, and the same people will be just as eager to tear you down and grind you into the dirt after your time is up. It's not an enviable life, it's a curse. I wouldn't trade his life for mine in ANY capacity. That said, his music is NOT played where I work. If it was I might have some hate on for the guy.
Alan C. Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Are you talking about Justin Beaver or Justin Bieber?
aFireInside Posted January 9, 2014 Author Posted January 9, 2014 Thanks for all the replies. @Alan - I'm talking about the pop star . I think the question was framed wrong when i wrote "guys" i generalized ... Most of the people who hate him are not FDR listeners ... they are mostly other kids around his age. But i was curious because he has lots of haters , i would say in the millions . ----------------- and , i learned that there are allot of reasons why people don't like him not a main one. ( by reading your replies, thanks again) The way i see it, is that yeah he might seem rude . But i never would of heard about him if it wasn't for all the people hating him.. I found about him while listening to a TED talk , a little kid made an iPhone app which was targeted to justin bevier haters ... So then that name kept poping up in the news... death threats and what not ... and thats when i thought it would be interesting to ask this question .... and some people here actually got mad. Which is interesting
WorBlux Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 He does strike me as awfully effeminate, but that's not why I don't like him. He strikes my as self-involved in the extreme. Strike John Lenon as the counterpoint.
Kevin Beal Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I think he's super talented and gets a lot of flack for reasons I don't fully understand. The same thing happened to Justin Timberlake and other male pop stars. There are some things that bother me though. Justin Timberlake for example was proclaimed the "god of sex" by Rolling Stone magazine. And Justin Bieber's shirtless thug thing is pretty lame. J-town biebs has been pumped up by agents and other vain stars from the beginning made out to be like the most amazing thing ever, and with the millions of people who strongly dislike him, that's gotta have some negative effects on his personality. So, in that way I sympathize. He's a young guy still figuring things out and he gets so much intense and conflicting feedback about who he is. Probably jealousy though. I'm a little jealous. The guy has the ladies rushing at him wanting to be with him all the time.
Guest Exceptionalist Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I cannot wait for the moment, when he pees in another bucket and finally becomes a rock star with bad boy image and lots of underwear on stage.
MysterionMuffles Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Because hes that pretty boy sell out rockstar who keeps getting the ladies due to always singing love songs. You know, instead of more important topics and having songs that arent in 4/4 timing. But thats just me being a mathrocker so anyway. I hate that he just got disocvered on Youtube, signed and has a hand up his ass in this sock puppet rock show of good boy to bad boy, akin to what happens to all the Disney girls, save for Hilary Duff. Hes just a corporate tool. No doubt hes talented and works hard to stay in the biz, but there are more harder working musicians who put the same or more amoubt of energy and passion into their music. Instead of image, dancing and stretching their assholes for more industry guys to control them. Beiber also plays into influencing tweens AND milfs to fall for bad boys with pretty voices. Whose songs can be about just about any girl because his lyrics are so generic and broad.
Freedomain Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 He was getting lots of hate directed at him as soon as he became popular as a young kid, so the hate was present long before he started acting out publicly. Lazy people HATE seeing other people create things and be successful because of hard work and determination. They need to create a story that it's all just "luck" to excuse the fact that they don't actually do anything productive that others will find value in. He's an asshole because he's successful is just a cover for... I'm really jealous of what that person has and I don't want to take personal responsibility for my own inaction.
Guest Exceptionalist Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 No doubt hes talented and works hard to stay in the biz, but there are more harder working musicians who put the same or more amoubt of energy and passion into their music. Instead of image, dancing and stretching their assholes for more industry guys to control them. Hard work has no intrinsic value. You can work hard and do the wrong thing, which is a net loss for you. He is a natural born bishounen, that is a coincidence and part of his success. If he was a fat slob from the subburbs, he was least appealing to teenage girls, cuz those are tempted by pretty boys.
Kevin Beal Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Hard work has no intrinsic value. You can work hard and do the wrong thing, which is a net loss for you. He is a natural born bishounen, that is a coincidence and part of his success. If he was a fat slob from the subburbs, he was least appealing to teenage girls, cuz those are tempted by pretty boys. Of course it has intrinsic value. Gold can be used to make weapons that kill people, therefore it's not intrinsically valuable = directly analogous argument. I'm not certain how you are using the term "intrinsic value", but the fact that people discriminate on the basis of hard work vs laziness, and benefit from doing so is strong evidence of real value. You dork!
dsayers Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I now hate him because a post about him in a philosophy forum of the board with the highest concentration of philosophers in the world gets more posts that topics on epistemology, ethics, self-ownership, and peace in the same place combined.
MysterionMuffles Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 He was getting lots of hate directed at him as soon as he became popular as a young kid, so the hate was present long before he started acting out publicly.Lazy people HATE seeing other people create things and be successful because of hard work and determination. They need to create a story that it's all just "luck" to excuse the fact that they don't actually do anything productive that others will find value in. He's an asshole because he's successful is just a cover for... I'm really jealous of what that person has and I don't want to take personal responsibility for my own inaction.Now I feel like a douche for what I said lol. I guess it all comes down to jealousy, if not of female influence, its of success with creativity.It's kind of like the Facebook page for How I Met Your Mother. Since season 7, maybe even earlier, people have been complaining about the declining quality of the show. For some its just not funny anymore, for others its because they just cant get to the meeting of the mother fast enough.Even when the page posts pics of a really good episode, people will still bitch about the show that no one is forcing them to continue watching. So at the mid season episode post I said, "if you guys know what it takes to make a better show, then form your own production crew, team of writers and cast of actors and do iSo in relation to Beiber its like what have you accomplished? And even if its a lot or even more than him, at that point, wouldnt you be immune to making judgements.
aFireInside Posted January 10, 2014 Author Posted January 10, 2014 This conversation got deeper than i ever expected. Wow. Thanks
Guest Exceptionalist Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Of course it has intrinsic value. Gold can be used to make weapons that kill people, therefore it's not intrinsically valuable = directly analogous argument. I'm not certain how you are using the term "intrinsic value", but the fact that people discriminate on the basis of hard work vs laziness, and benefit from doing so is strong evidence of real value. You dork! The benefit is subjective and the value provided is subjective. People discriminate of the basis of benefit rather than hard work. Hard work is a means to an end, that means, it has no intrinsic value, cuz that would mean it has a value in itself. I am sure some government employees work hard but the value they provide is worse than neutral. In case of a pop star it is more than obvious, that having a great voice alone means nothing at all, cuz country music is not objectively worse than hip hop. Economic values are subjective like human preferences. All your hard work means nothing if nobody cares about the outcome. Nothing has an intrinsic value, cuz that would mean a value independent of people's preferences, economic interests, moral values etc. You could also say that laziness is a value, cuz laziness drives innovation. Jobs were created out of the convinience of Joe average, because cooking is time consuming. The dishwasher was invented because of the laziness of a housewife.
Kevin Beal Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 The benefit is subjective and the value provided is subjective. People discriminate of the basis of benefit rather than hard work. Hard work is a means to an end, that means, it has no intrinsic value, cuz that would mean it has a value in itself. I am sure some government employees work hard but the value they provide is worse than neutral. In case of a pop star it is more than obvious, that having a great voice alone means nothing at all, cuz country music is not objectively worse than hip hop. Economic values are subjective like human preferences. All your hard work means nothing if nobody cares about the outcome. Nothing has an intrinsic value, cuz that would mean a value independent of people's preferences, economic interests, moral values etc. You could also say that laziness is a value, cuz laziness drives innovation. Jobs were created out of the convinience of Joe average, because cooking is time consuming. The dishwasher was invented because of the laziness of a housewife. There is nothing about a thing being subjective or being used for nefarious ends that means it lacks value. Value doesn't mean the moral good or any kind of engineering level of objectivity. Hard work is valuable to the bad guys in the exact same sense that it's valuable to the good guys in your examples. The value of money is ontologically subjective, meaning the value is not in the actual fibers or inks, but that in no way whatsoever means it lacks real value. Your use of the word "intrinsic" here is confusing. Justin Bieber could not have worked hard or worked hard and not gained his success, but none of that is to say that there is not actual, true, real value in his hard work. The effects can be seen and measured with at least some objective measures, in the same way that the value of goods is subjective, but has objective measures in the form of dollar values. Immoral ≠ valueless subjective ≠ fake
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