Do we need education as it is right now, and whats the real alternative?

[super.bueno]

So guys do we need education as it is right now, and what is the real alternative?

 

Do you think, or you ve heard that you can get quality education anywhere in this fuckin world?

 

Why is education so expensive in the US and Canada, and is it worth it?

[TheRobin]

DO we get education right now? (I don't remember much from school that actually served me in real live, safe for reading writing and some basic math and I hear in the US a large percentage of school absolvents aren't even literate (me being from Switzerland not the US or Canada).

[super.bueno]

I am not a citizen of the US or CAN neither, I just came across some documentaries about how expensive and worthless is the higher education in the USA,(  nobody mentioned Canada btw - nonetheless I dont believe there is any a major difference though, please correct if I am wrong ). What really blowed my mind is that they are asserting that the next big econ. bubble in the USA will be from student credits, and then there are hundreds of students which are claiming that a university is a fraud.

I heard there are some ,,decent'' schools in Switzerland, but they are way to expencive for an average European student.

[dsayers]

Schooling and education are two different things.

 

Let us look at your original question. You're posting to a forum on the internet to ask what alternative education is available. That is to say that you took it upon yourself to consult on the internet to learn more about ways we can learn more.

[super.bueno]

So...?

[Alan C.]

So guys do we need education as it is right now, and what is the real alternative?

 

Do you think, or you ve heard that you can get quality education anywhere in this fuckin world?

 

Why is education so expensive in the US and Canada, and is it worth it?

 

"We" don't need education, and especially not as it currently is. Alternatives already exist such as tutoring, online courses, computer software, user groups, videos, and apprenticeships.

 

I wouldn't call the current system "education." Regimentation, memorization, and recitation aren't education; it's training like one might do to circus animals.

 

Education is expensive in the US and elsewhere because it's a State-protected racket.

[super.bueno]

I absolutely agree with everything you ve written.,, it's training like one might do to circus animals '' - thats is a really good analogy, I will remember that

 

I am doing pretty much everything you mentioned, and I have an amazing success since I started doing it my way. I feel better about myself, I ve proven, what I was claiming for my whole life that  now in a digital era when one can access tons of free or fairly cheap materials, paying for college is a absolute nonsense.   I just feel bad, cause I started doing it a little bit late ( at least this is my perspective ) ( I always kind of knew that, but I just went with the idiotic flow ).

[FriendlyHacker]

So guys do we need education as it is right now, and what is the real alternative?

 

No, we don't need education as is right now.

 

The alternative is already out there and getting cheaper by the minute: The internetPeople only need 2 things:

1 - Easy access to information

2 - Incentive to study

The internet can provide both

 

I don't have a college degree and it makes absolutely no difference in my life, because I've worked/studied enough to know more about certain subjects than people with degrees.

 

The main focus in my career is to provide high quality educational material for free, and people do mention how having access to it has changed their life.

[super.bueno]

Abolutely true, just for the record what is your field of work?

The only problem for a educational revolution to start is fear and constant brainwashing either from public or from parents, ( I dont blame them that much, cause they are victims of the victims, so are we )

[Usethem]

Schooling and education are two different things.

 

Let us look at your original question. You're posting to a forum on the internet to ask what alternative education is available. That is to say that you took it upon yourself to consult on the internet to learn more about ways we can learn more.

 There's a funny essay about it by Russell Baker. The internet provides a possible new method of learning, something like falling down the rabbit hole after an idea. Moving outwards in degrees from the original topic, learning connections, learning metaphors. But what should be taken into account are the social aspects of school, and whether these are essential or not. Do the goods outweigh the cons?

[dsayers]

Just as I wouldn't call schooling education, I wouldn't call getting bullied, being ostracized for not participating in a fashion show, etc socializing. What little social interaction is allowed for in government schools is just the abused abusing one another. There is no pro.

 

If a parent negotiated with a child in an egalitarian manner... Seriously, what else is needed? You avoid immoral, coercive people and you work peaceably with people who are not immoral to achieve win-win solutions. You can still take them to the playground, to the park, etc. Which is nice because then the children of coercive parents can see a difference and you and your child will touch their lives as well.

[Usethem]

You're right about the imbalance of negative socialization versus positive in the school system. However eliminating the (admittedly archaic and negative) school system could cause things to become even more dichotomized; the moral and non-aggressive parents would have more time to raise their children but so too would immoral and aggressive parents. I think something in an earlier post mentioned tutors as an alternative, which is a good idea. But its the parents who are the problem isn't it? They remain the problem no matter how the equation is shifted around and I don't think being an egalitarian example is enough.

[LovePrevails]

www.coursera.org

[super.bueno]

You're right about the imbalance of negative socialization versus positive in the school system. However eliminating the (admittedly archaic and negative) school system could cause things to become even more dichotomized; the moral and non-aggressive parents would have more time to raise their children but so too would immoral and aggressive parents. I think something in an earlier post mentioned tutors as an alternative, which is a good idea. But its the parents who are the problem isn't it? They remain the problem no matter how the equation is shifted around and I don't think being an egalitarian example is enough.

I think that the most of us, are just victims of the victims ( some of us are victims of our parents, and yet again our parent have been victims of their parents ), and this is a stream that should be somehow stopped, otherwise nothing or barely nothing can be achieved towards the education that we need.

[dsayers]

They remain the problem no matter how the equation is shifted around and I don't think being an egalitarian example is enough.

 

I think a parent has more contact with parents taking their child to playgrounds and such than they do by letting other people take them to government schools.

 

I agree that being an example isn't enough, but it is vital. Abused children will either internalize, normalize, or repress the trauma in order to survive. Then they're shipped to government schools, which only serves to reinforce the abuse and strengthen the way in which it is dealt with. To see somebody, ANYBODY offer an example that their abuse is NOT all that there is, it can help in exposing how wrong it is. This could make all the difference in the world.

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

Start with the Ultimate History Lesson.

 

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8

[LovePrevails]

I recommend the book by Alfie Kohn "Beyond Discipline: From Compliance to Community" it gives a lot of great insights into how education could be dramatically improved

[Usethem]

I think that the most of us, are just victims of the victims ( some of us are victims of our parents, and yet again our parent have been victims of their parents ), and this is a stream that should be somehow stopped, otherwise nothing or barely nothing can be achieved towards the education that we need.

 

That idea, of being a victim of a victim, is ubiquitous and indisputable. I agree wholeheartedly. Intergenerational trauma, chronic stress and complex PTSD are some of the more insidious and pervasive elements of the human condition. It boggles the mind when you think about the number of minor, unrecognized traumas which we carry behind us like so many Marley shackles...isn't a Christmas Carol a myth about PTSD (well if I'm being liberal with my analysis).

 

 I recently heard a social worker say to a child in an emotional support class that "there isn't such a thing as bad people, only bad behavior." This of course means that there's no such thing as good people either...but more importantly the fact (whether true or false) that only behavior is good or bad doesn't change the reality that the child is still rewarded or punished. What this got me thinking on was this message that one's behavior and one's self are separate entities. I don't agree, but I think its a common mantra in psychology. The alternative is the old standby of good and bad people, us vs them, etc. So the two moral options presented are a disunion of the individual and his/her acts on the one hand, and on the other a qualitative assessment of the individual in totem. My question is whether there's a third option. I have little idea myself.

[super.bueno]

That idea, of being a victim of a victim, is ubiquitous and indisputable. I agree wholeheartedly. Intergenerational trauma, chronic stress and complex PTSD are some of the more insidious and pervasive elements of the human condition. It boggles the mind when you think about the number of minor, unrecognized traumas which we carry behind us like so many Marley shackles...isn't a Christmas Carol a myth about PTSD (well if I'm being liberal with my analysis).

 

 I recently heard a social worker say to a child in an emotional support class that "there isn't such a thing as bad people, only bad behavior." This of course means that there's no such thing as good people either...but more importantly the fact (whether true or false) that only behavior is good or bad doesn't change the reality that the child is still rewarded or punished. What this got me thinking on was this message that one's behavior and one's self are separate entities. I don't agree, but I think its a common mantra in psychology. The alternative is the old standby of good and bad people, us vs them, etc. So the two moral options presented are a disunion of the individual and his/her acts on the one hand, and on the other a qualitative assessment of the individual in totem. My question is whether there's a third option. I have little idea myself.

 The first two would be?

[Usethem]

One would be to separate a person from their behavior and the second would be to judge a person based on their behavior.

[super.bueno]

One would be to separate a person from their behavior and the second would be to judge a person based on their behavior.

Good question