sagiquarius Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Greetings true bel ... oops, wrong intro .... try again - sorry Stan. Hello all! Long story made short (unless somebody really wants the longer version over skype or something): I've shared an 8-year relationship with a woman that has been my friend for about 9-10 years (I'm 34- she's 33). We separated in the summer of 2013 and after much communication (and mutual listening to FDR podcasts, etc...) we've gotten ourselves to a point where we feel more committed and passionate about moving forward as a couple, but we have a hurdle we must cross in the form of the 2000+ mile distance created when we separated in June 2013 (she moved to Montana). It was during the separation that most of the difficult conversations and negotiations took place to bring us to this point. I visited in her in December, to be sure we were on the right track, and it was shortly after my return that I decided the relationship was worth a deeper commitment. Fast forward through more conversation and negotiation, and we come to the issue: I'm now preparing to move to MT in May to be with her. But, I'm experiencing frequent bouts of ambivalence about my moving out there, and I don't understand why. I have some ideas and theories, but nothing clear, nothing "AH HA!" I have a history of not listening to myself ... so, is this one of those times when I'm trying to tell myself that going out there isn't the smartest of ideas? I keep working through it, trying to understand the ambivalence. All of the reasons are fear of the unknown, as best as I can tell at this point. Fear of the job market, fear of leaving my current job, fear of her and I not being able to make it (financially) and have to move away again, fear of feeling overly dependent on her parents until she and I can find our own place. And the worst fear of all, is that I still don't trust myself, not completely. I have mismanaged (not being open nor emotionally available, sadistic, prone to manipulation) the last several years of my life, and while I no longer abuse myself over it, I'm still raw and uncertain about that history. Kind of like a broken arm that is freshly healed - it's tender and requires more care than normal. She is willing to come back here, despite it not being her preference. We've both said, "I don't care where we live, or if we have to live in a damn trailer, home is where you are." Right now, the money is here, but my current employer won't last much longer (business is failing), but there are a couple of other opportunities here I may be able to take advantage of if I work my ass off to show my value to these potential employers. When I think of her coming back, the ambivalence disappears, and I feel relaxed - more in control of the situation. Moving to Montana feels like "OMG, the pilot just passed out, quick somebody fly this damn thing - aaahh mountains!" There are pros and cons to living in each area, for the both of us. What I'm concerned about is understanding this near constant ambivalence. Am I trying to warn myself away because I don't believe it's an economically viable choice, or am I just expressing my habitual aversion to risk and lack of courage to commit to a major decision? I understand feeling afraid and uncertain about such a major decision, but I can't help wondering why I'm so scared some times. I've never done anything like this before, and most of my life has been very easy and lucky. Most of what I have is due to luck, not because I have proven my value to an employer and am being fairly compensated, and certainly not because I took any risks to get here. I don't have a job lined up, but I'm a pretty smart guy and am networking as best as I can so I can hit the ground running when I get there. I'm sure I'd eventually find a job, but the economy out there is such that there may not be the opportunity that I have here. I could try to make my own opportunity, but that is something I'd have to figure out when I get there as it would be far easier to work locally. She and I both considering going back to 2-year technical school where I can expand my internet technology knowledge, and she would refocus on her first college interest of a job in the medical industry (sonographer, surgical tech, something like that). I have enough money to move myself out there with some savings to spare, but not much. I'd be perfectly happy to help cover the expense of her moving back since she won't have enough to cover the return move to PA, if that is what we decided to do. We both agree we need to continue improving our relationship by being together - long distance is no longer cutting it. The fact that we were able to repair things and actually improve them at such a great distance is something I value highly, and I'm not letting go of that easily. She and I share a firm philosophical solidarity, something I really came to appreciate when I tried dating other people during our separation. What do you guys think? Would anybody be willing to help me understand what's going on for me? I have no problem with forums, but I generally prefer skype because it's more efficient, and I enjoy the immediate feedback loop of a live conversation. Plus, I'm a talker, but not nearly as much as the legendary BCF.
dsayers Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I am so envious of you! What I wouldn't give to have a special someone who was philosophically minded. I say this both because it's true and to emphasize it's importance. All the things you're thinking about are intelligent and rational considerations, so that's not to say that they're unimportant. Just maybe not as important as having somebody to share it all with. Which brings me to the one question I had through reading most of that: Have you talked to her about any of this? What are her thoughts? She knows you better than I do I'm guessing. Where did you both grow up? Where are your families and friends? Are these people that would strengthen your bond with her or detract from it? Not saying any of these are deal breakers. Just that if it were to come down to a coin toss, you might as well weight the coin usefully.
sagiquarius Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 I am so envious of you! What I wouldn't give to have a special someone who was philosophically minded. I say this both because it's true and to emphasize it's importance. All the things you're thinking about are intelligent and rational considerations, so that's not to say that they're unimportant. Just maybe not as important as having somebody to share it all with. Which brings me to the one question I had through reading most of that: Have you talked to her about any of this? What are her thoughts? She knows you better than I do I'm guessing. Where did you both grow up? Where are your families and friends? Are these people that would strengthen your bond with her or detract from it? Not saying any of these are deal breakers. Just that if it were to come down to a coin toss, you might as well weight the coin usefully. She's not quite into philosophy and FDR as I am; but she knows its value, and the positive effect both have had on my life. She and I share a philosophical solidarity in that we agree on many values and principles that I consider a requirement for a romantic relationship. Oh yes, she and I have spoken at great length at the issue of my moving out there vs her moving back here. We both grew up here, in PA, and her entire immediate family (to whom she is rather close) moved to Montana years ago. I'm not close with my family, and really only speak with my mother (who isn't at all pleased about my moving). I'm comfortable with her parents and am pleased with the relationship she has with them. Her parents are libertarian folks, kind of a live and let live type of mind set. I've had many discussions with them about government and such. So, yeah, she and I have discussed a lot. She gets the logic behind my arguments and her parents have reassured me that it's totally fine for us to stay there. Basically, it's up to me. Her preference is to stay there and make the best of it because she feels more at home out there than she ever did in PA. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the place, but like I said before, it's not the place that matters so much as that we're together. My issue is the ambivalence, and why it's so strong. It's gotten better, but I can't help be feel like this may be one of those instances when I'm not listening to myself. Thing is, I have a history of not listening to myself, so that makes it hard for me to really discern why I'm feeling such ambivalence. Is it just fear of taking a giant step into some discomforting unknowns, or am I really trying to tell myself to ease back a bit. So, that's where it stands. As of now, I'm still proceeding as if I were to move. My last day at my current employer is April 25th - I'll be moving May 9th. It's not too late to change my mind, but the point of no return will be early March due to the time required to arrange transportation and what not. I'm scared and doubt myself frequently, but I'm pushing through because I want to be with her, and it would be kind of nice for us to start over in a new place with folks that don't know our history (especially mine!).
dsayers Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Just for the sake of clarification, you mentioned that the two of you have discussed moving vs being moved and you mentioned your feelings of ambivalence, but it's not clear if the discussions you've had with her include this ambivalence. If not, I think that's important. Pardon my projection, but I would be exhilarated at the possibilities in taking a risk for the first time in my life to be with not just somebody, but an entire family that would be nurturing to my values and peaceful co-existence. For me, this would be after a life of abuse and isolation with relationships and families of those I've had relationships with being against me. Do you think the ambivalence could be the result of taking a large risk for the first time? Do you think you have reservations about her abandoning you after having gone your separate ways in the past?
sagiquarius Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 Aye, she is well aware of my ambivalence. I totally get what you're saying about the risk, and a part of me agrees with you 100%. I can also relate to your feeling of isolation and people being against me. I feel very isolated here, in PA, without her. I still have our friends to hang with, but I don't share a very well understood philosophical solidarity with them. I'm not as close with them as I once was because I'm not the same person I was 3 years ago. It's so sad when people don't grow with you, or choose to dig their heals into their current perspectives. I believe the majority of my feelings are, as you say, centered around making such a huge life choice for the first time - basically fear. She'll never abandon me, of that I am certain - she's one of the most loyal people I have ever known. Our separation was probably one of the best things to have happened to our relationship. A large part of me is concerned about having enough money to live on our own. That stems from my insecurity about my employability, which I have been working hard to improve these last few months. My best case scenario would be we both have decent enough jobs to be in our own place by summer 2015. Worst case would be that we're still at her parent's place by then without even anything promising. I can't imagine that happening, I mean, I know things aren't fairly good in some parts of the country (and in general) but I'm a pretty smart guy, we'd figure something out. Going for a 2-year program isn't difficult nor all that costly. Sounds like you'd be stoked about being in my situation! Even still, would you feel some concern about the employment situation, or do you have skills that are easily transferrable? Damn, I knew I should have become a programmer! :-)
dsayers Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Actually, I'm in the exact same boat as you, just on a smaller scale. I live under my abusive father's roof as a result of poor life skills and choices as a result of having an abusive father (and mother and teachers) throughout my childhood. Studying philosophy and pursuing self-knowledge, there's all sorts of things that interest me that I could capitalize on to make a life for myself "out there." However, to pursue them, it would mean making decisions that would lead to home and job uncertainties. While I'm here, I'm still under oppressive reign, so leaving is necessary. At the same time, staying means I get to keep more of my money and I have a bit more time to engage in content consumption and self-work. Not quite the same scenario as you, but definitely the same ambivalence. Though yours has extra facets and requires bigger decisions. I think I might give into the exhilaration of taking the leap if I had somebody to do it with. On the other hand, I have a history of losing myself in relationships due to a lack of identity. On the other other hand, you seem to have the identity thing down and are approaching it from the very rational position of considering housing and work. At the risk of projecting, could your ambivalence be coming from letting your heart lead when you've been secure in leaving things to your brain? I recently starting watching the Philosopher's Toolkit and one of the most valuable lessons I got from it was how excluding our emotions from our thoughts actually inhibits our ability to think better. Maybe for as long as you do have a deep, rational investment into the decision, it might be good for you to let yourself be all of yourself. I can't tell you what to do and I might be way off base here. But how does that sound to you?
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