tnkltnkl Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Through listening to Stef's podcasts and call-in shows, I've learned (or rather, been re-educated) that anger is healthy and normal. Those who don't wish me to experience that anger are those who have likely hurt me and those who I should be angry at. I feel like I'm not even scratching the surface yet of all my issues, but I also don't feel like I can even resolve anything at this point. I've allowed myself to think back on my childhood, even my adulthood and experience the emotions properly, with my new perspective (perhaps not to a completely full extent yet). I've gotten angry, frustrated, and felt completely shattered. Now I'm left not knowing what to do. I don't feel like I can begin to express the damage that's been done, by so many people in my life. I'm not sure what the next step is. I'm still trying to find a therapist but a major setback is that there are just no quality ones near my location. I wouldn't care to go into much detail, as some of the situations and experiences are completely horrifying and embarrassing. I will provide some information to give context, though. I am the youngest (of myself and my sister) child of a single drug/alcohol abusing mother. Before she got clean there were even times where she'd go missing, leaving myself and my sister (I was in grade 1, she in grade 2) alone in a city we'd only just moved to. There were many attempts on her part to get clean, detox centers and the like. The downside to this is that we got placed with our grandparents, or my sister's father. Living with my sister's father, was literally hell. His wife despised us as we weren't her children (hell, I wasn't even related to her husband). We were hit with anything that seemed reasonable to her, for any reason. Belts, wooden spoons, hands, anything really. The physical abuse wasn't hidden from my sister's father, he seemed to approve of this 'punishment'. The torture was what she kept hidden for when he was away. She would set up situations that would cause us to do something she disapproved of so that she could dole out some creative disgusting torture. Pepper on the tongue, hold it til you cry. Ask for water after? You have to drink it until you vomit. Vomit? You need to clean it up yourself. Don't finish your dinner because you're full? Sit at the table until it's finished, with extra helpings. Don't finish your dinner in time? You don't get to eat. Complain you have a sore throat? Chloraseptic spray in the eyes 'accidentally'. My sister's father came home during that one, so she quickly gave me a cookie and explained I had moved while she was carefully trying to make my pain go away. Those are a few very small instances of her evil. With my grandparents, I usually "only" got sent to my room or hit in the face for crying too loudly. An occasional unwelcome slap on the butt by my grandfather (not as punishment) was also something that occurred too frequently. Finally by age 10 my mom became clean. From there it was a constant stream of her dating men, manipulating and ignoring us, and ridiculous punishments (with occasional spanking and more often screaming). When I was around 21 years old, while in university, I became completely undone. Depressed, anxious, suicidal and self-harming. I sought help after a while and was 'diagnosed' with bi-polar disorder, anxiety disorder, and possibly borderline personality disorder. (this was by the campus psychiatrist) I was prescribed several different pills, one after another when they didn't work. It completely wrecked me. After nothing working, having missed weeks of class along with exams, and cutting every hidden area on my body, I just left and moved back in with my mother. It became clear how my family thought of me as the problem child, the one who always messes up. There would be conversations where I sat on one side of the room while my sister and mother sat on the other, ganging up on me. I would lash out and say terrible things, and they would tell me how much I was hurting them and that they sometimes hated me. I somehow was able to get a job in a town an hour away. I moved out, started working, and eventually started dating an amazing man. He showed me for the first time in my life what empathy felt like, to be on the receiving end. When we got to know each other better, he introduced me to Stef's podcasts. Once I started, I had no choice but to keep going. I've barely even started, and it's been over a year now. I stopped taking medication for imaginary conditions, and instead took up philosophy and self-knowledge. It's not easy, and I struggle every day with continuing to learn and find out more. I avoid it more often than I'd like to admit, but I want to push forward. So here I am today. Pissed off. Broken. Now what?
dsayers Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 First of all, let me say how relieved I am that such a horrible story had a "happy ending."As for what comes next, I don't think it's the same for everybody. For me, I began to examine everything I accepted as truth to find out if it was true, if not why not, where did I get the idea from, etc. I also started looking over my communications from the past and present. I even got a voice recorder so I could review my discussions. I also take time to examine my feelings, the most underdeveloped part of me.I think it's safe to say that the people who abused you don't deserve the opportunity to abuse you further. Oh and please thank that amazing man for me, will you?
Daniel Unplugged Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I'm so sorry about what happened to you. You in no way deserved, or are responsible for any of the horrible things you experienced. You show great courage by telling us your story in this forum, and are clearly trying to confront, and deal with what happened in your life. Great early steps, many more to go. I'm so glad you found your amazing man and FDR. Having support structures like that in your life help make the process easier. You are on the right track to achieve what you want...so happy for you. Absolute best wishes Daniel
tnkltnkl Posted January 21, 2014 Author Posted January 21, 2014 Thank you both for your kind words, I really appreciate them. I still have quite a bit of work to do, for sure. I'm thinking I'll try to keep writing and journaling. I've touched on some of these subjects with my mom since I started this journey, and she seems open to discussing them. She seems to be actually sorry, but I don't think she understands the extent of the damage and I have my doubts that she ever will. I wasn't taught how to process these things, so I'm not sure how to resolve my anger. Is it something I'll always feel, or is there some way to come to terms with what happened? I would like to continue to have a relationship with my mother and sister (not really interested at all in the other 'relationships' that were mentioned) but I feel like I can't until these feelings are resolved. I can't even spend a weekend there without becoming completely emotionally drained near the end of the second day. She can't change what happened in the past and unfortunately she's really not in a situation to be able to make it up to me now somehow.
Libertarian Prepper Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 First of all, thanks for sharing. Your stories really made me cringe, because that level of torture is unbelievably evil. I don't even know what to say about that.. I get frustrated and stuck just thinking about it. I'm really sorry this happened to you. I can try to venture a guess as to your anger. Perhaps it comes not just from your memories of abuse in the past, but also because you're trying to maintain a relationship with someone while they have yet to understand your feelings and the effects of their actions. It's not your feeling of anger that's getting in the way of the relationship, but rather their unwillingness to take full responsibility for their actions that causes your anger in the first place. Does that sound like it makes sense?
MysterionMuffles Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Holy crap...that's just wretched. What you described about your sister's father's wife and the punishments she would inflict on you. I appreciate your openness to talk about it, I'm really sorry for what happened, but I am immensely proud that you came out of it alive. I would expect someone with that experience to be totally cut off and vile, and vengeful towards the world, but I don't sense that from you. This is hard to stomach especially because you endured all that before the age of 10...holy hell! The answer to your "now what?" is all up to you. I don't even know how to begin to give advice. The most I can offer is my sympathy and pride for your choice to at least see your abuse for what it was. Journalling is really the best thing you can do, aside from of course seeking ways to reverse those kinds of ingrained experiences. It seems you've also hit a bit of a jackpot in meeting a man who can introduce you to philosophy and empathy, the most deadliest combination in combatting abuse. I am really happy for that and would like to know more about what it took for you to meet him and open yourself up to him. All I can really say is just that you're on the right path at least! And just keep opening up until it becomes a bit of a story you're tired of retelling. I hope that doesn't sound too new age, self help minimization but I think it has power to unload about your experiences with the genuine emotions you felt within those instances and get them out of your system. That will leave a huge gaping hole in your heart and psyche, but the healing in the form of virtuous actions and virtuous relationships will strengthen you. Especially since it has been so foreign in your life and you just know it's been what you've wanted for so long. Btw, why do you feel inclined to still have a relationship with your mother? Your sister I understand, but your mother ignored and neglected you for most of your life, even when you were in her proximity...maybe that's where the lingering clutch on anger still resides? You're still allowing yourself to be in the company of someone who has disregarded you for the most part. That's not to say it's not worth trying to be open and honest with her, but test it out. If you can at least hold a casual conversation with your mother without inviting any attack, push deeper and see if you can have a conversation about your history and your current feelings. See if she's willing to care before the dreaded option of simply taking a break from her.
dsayers Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I wasn't taught how to process these things, so I'm not sure how to resolve my anger. Is it something I'll always feel, or is there some way to come to terms with what happened?I'm angry that that happened to you. If you were jane doe on the street and I heard that happened to you, I'd be angry. Would you be angry to find out these things happened to other people? If so, then I don't think it SHOULD ever go away that you're angry about such things.Obviously the intensity of the anger you feel will subside both as you "get used to it" and begin to work to counteract the damages. You're not as pissed that somebody hit your car once it's repaired and their insurance settles your repair bill for example.My questions to you are: WHY does it make you angry? Can you explain this objectively? If so, you're going to simultaneously make yourself less vulnerable to such mistreatment in the future and less likely to engage in such behavior yourself. I think that's important because some people go from being angry, which is healthy, to being enraged and wrathful, which can lead to them doing the same immoral acts done unto them, which is not healthy.
tnkltnkl Posted January 22, 2014 Author Posted January 22, 2014 @Libertarian Prepper Yes, I think you're right about that. Not only can they not take full responsibility for their actions, but there's an attitude of "Look how well you turned out". It gets me every time, and my anger just starts bubbling up. Even if I say "not because of you, despite you" it doesn't change how they feel. When I'm doing terrible and I'm depressed, it's because of something I did or didn't do, or something that's wrong with me. If I'm doing well, have a solid job and a wonderful boyfriend then it had nothing to do with me, it was all thanks to my upbringing. @Mysterion Muffles I will definitely be continuing writing and journalling, and opening up as much as I can to those who I can trust. I really do feel extremely lucky I met a man that has such wonderful values. We met through work. Being one of the very few women in a QA Analyst position, a lot of the men working there were interested in the "cute" new female employee. We started talking around the time I joined a D&D campaign he was in that was run in the office and we just started chatting. He was so kind and patient even though I was awkward and so nervous around people. Even before meeting him, I was very open with what happened in the past if someone was curious, but he was the one that helped me realize that the things that happened were wrong. I spent my entire life up til then thinking those things just happened to everyone, or more often thought that it happened to me because I was a bad person. When I first told him some of my story, he cried, and I couldn't understand why at first. We talked about it, and I just felt so cared for, for once. I'm very glad that I got to discover these things, because I know if I didn't find a problem with how people treated me, how was I supposed to have a problem treating people that way? I think about my relationship with my mother and sister quite a bit. I think the reason I want to continue having a relationship with her comes in a few parts. First of all, she's had fibromyalgia since I can remember (a muscle disease) so she can't do much anymore. Despite how I was treated, I still care about her. Not love, of course because she'd need to have virtue for me to be able to love her. Just like I'd care about a stranger, I care about my mother. I know what feeling alone feels like, and I don't want anyone to have to feel like that. Another part, is that she is willing to talk about anything with me. We've been able to talk about her past and her mistakes and she's very open. I've talked about some of the things that happened in my childhood and how they affected me, and she's cried and apologized. I just feel like I can't keep bringing things like this up with her, because when do I stop? There's nothing she can do to change it or make it better, or even to make up for a small portion of it. Until I'm able to resolve these things, I've told her that I can't come visit and she was unbelieveably understanding and for once didn't try to guilt or manipulate, I was astounded. It kind of gave me hope that one day things could be repaired. I don't know if that's hoping too much. @dsayers That's how I discovered that what happened to me was completely awful. I had never though before "What if this happened to another child", and it seemed like an obvious thing to ask myself that I never had. What makes me angry is when I think about what could have been. If I had been raised in a loving, caring environment, how much happier and far ahead in life would I be? Instead of working minimum wage testing games, perhaps I could have been running my own company for QA. Instead of all these scars (both physical and emotional) maybe I could have found meaningful friendships. Because someone else was evil, I have to pay the consequences and put in the work to fix their damage. Aside from those personal wishes, what makes me angry is that the values I hold most important directly go against the way I was treated. I would never think of doing something like that to someone, and it makes me feel sick knowing that there are people who get direct enjoyment from it. Those are my thoughts anyway. Thank you guys so much for replying. I can't express how helpful your questions and insights have been so far. I really appreciate the time you took to read my story and reply. It's given me a lot to think and write about, and I think the conversation so far has really helped me understand a few things.
dsayers Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 That's how I discovered that what happened to me was completely awful. I had never though before "What if this happened to another child", and it seemed like an obvious thing to ask myself that I never had. What makes me angry is when I think about what could have been. If I had been raised in a loving, caring environment, how much happier and far ahead in life would I be? Instead of working minimum wage testing games, perhaps I could have been running my own company for QA. Instead of all these scars (both physical and emotional) maybe I could have found meaningful friendships. Because someone else was evil, I have to pay the consequences and put in the work to fix their damage. Aside from those personal wishes, what makes me angry is that the values I hold most important directly go against the way I was treated. I would never think of doing something like that to someone, and it makes me feel sick knowing that there are people who get direct enjoyment from it. Those are my thoughts anyway. If you don't mind me saying so, this all sounds very generalized. If I find out my car was stolen, I'm angry that the car was stolen. If I find out that the person I trusted above everybody else stole it, I'm angry that I was betrayed by somebody I trusted. What you're describing is akin to being angry that your car was stolen. Only you know who did it and you know that it was the last thing they should've done to you. This was not an issue of drawing straws and you happened to get the short one. Somebody of free will, whom you were dependent upon to STAY ALIVE did this to you. So I guess the answer to the topic's question would be to assign the debt to the person responsible. If this is difficult to accept, please just re-read the following while considering it: I've touched on some of these subjects with my mom since I started this journey, and she seems open to discussing them. She seems to be actually sorry, but I don't think she understands the extent of the damage and I have my doubts that she ever will. I wasn't taught how to process these things, so I'm not sure how to resolve my anger. Is it something I'll always feel, or is there some way to come to terms with what happened? I would like to continue to have a relationship with my mother and sister (not really interested at all in the other 'relationships' that were mentioned) but I feel like I can't until these feelings are resolved. It would be easy for you to go to your mom and say, "Hey, I didn't like this," and for her to say, "Oh yeah, sorry about that." You might find her reaction to be very different if you approached it more from a, "Yo, this pisses me off. How the hell could you treat somebody like this? How the hell could you leave somebody with people that would do things like this?" I'm being very general since these aren't my experiences, but I hope you get the idea. Your mother is responsible for the way those other people treated you to. The reasons you don't want relationships with them accrues to your mother also.
MysterionMuffles Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 WOW D&D at the office? I don't believe your story because it seems like any nerd's wet dream to be able to score with one of the few rare girls at work I'm very glad that I got to discover these things, because I know if I didn't find a problem with how people treated me, how was I supposed to have a problem treating people that way? too profound for words Real sorry to hear about your mom btw...I was gonna jump to the whole, LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE CARE OF HER approach, but it seems like you know what you're doing. If she's willing to be open and honest I would say milk it til you feel satiated. When you will stop is when you'll feel truly connected to her and feel like you can safely say that you do love her. Her virtue, despite of it being caused to a reminder in mortality, has a chance to develop if you keep pressing onward with opening up about your history. It's great that you let her open up, so long as that she allows you the same amount of openness with your history. Yes you can't change it, but the point is for her to see the fault of her actions and how it has affected you. Doing so without shaming her is actually tough...she's gonna be bound to feel the shame and guilt on her own but if you're willing to be this caring for her, I think it'd be a healthy thing for you to acknowledge and accept, and helping her feel validated in that shame after her apologies, to me, would restore some faith in other human beings. Because if someone can make such grave errors, be truly sorry and ashamed of their past actions, and of course promise to improve their line of communication with you--then I think there's some hope in humanity.
tnkltnkl Posted January 26, 2014 Author Posted January 26, 2014 Thank you again guys, I have a lot of things to write about now. I'll update this post if I come up with any more questions or things I may get stuck on. I really appreciate the help and kind words!
Brock H Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I'm so sorry you were forced to go through this. It wAs hard to read at times. I am still new here as well so for me to give any kind of advice won't be much help. It is great to see new people here starting their own journey toward self knowledge. It is a hard thing to do, to look at the world objectively and determine what is true. I look forward to your updates and best of luck!
Holo Cene Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 What unbelievable evil we inflict upon our children and call it " the best we could do". It is quite simply a testament to your intelligence and virtue that you strive to reach wholeness and it should not be underestimated. Your strength of character alone is a powerful message to yourself about what you are capable of. People succumb to their histories every day and it is something special to reach beyond the darkness and see the light. I think the autonomy of decision making comes from a direct and authentic experience of the self. You know what you want, and you know how to formulate plans and goals. When you exist solely as defense mechanisms to memories and traumas and damage, you cannot express your true self because all of your considerable mental fortitude is spent propping up the bulwark of emotional collapse. What you do with your anger will be determined by your growth as a human being. As you grow, so too will your ability to adjudicate the decisions that are right for you. If there is any justice here, it will be in your capable hands in finding it for yourself. The only help there can be is in identifying evil and exposing the truth under the lies. You seem to be seeing things rather clearly though I do not understand how such wanton evil could ever be given a half-assed apology.
masterofmyself Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 What makes me angry is when I think about what could have been. If I had been raised in a loving, caring environment, how much happier and far ahead in life would I be? Instead of working minimum wage testing games, perhaps I could have been running my own company for QA. Instead of all these scars (both physical and emotional) maybe I could have found meaningful friendships. Because someone else was evil, I have to pay the consequences and put in the work to fix their damage. Aside from those personal wishes, what makes me angry is that the values I hold most important directly go against the way I was treated. I would never think of doing something like that to someone, and it makes me feel sick knowing that there are people who get direct enjoyment from it. Those are my thoughts anyway. First of all, I'm truly sorry for your experience, and find it tremendously courageous of you to confront these issues with yourself and the people around you who are responsible. I am currently in therapy - have been for about 5 months now - and recently stopped smoking marijuana altogether (I was smoking everyday, all day, for about 5 years). What I noticed is that I was finally able to connect with every emotion my body was trying to experience, including anger... well really, mainly anger. It's been very difficult to understand this anger, and where I should direct it. I'm still trying to figure out anger as an emotion, since I was never able to experience it as a child, as it always led to abuse of some sort. One thing I realized (today in therapy, actually) was that I'm frustrated, and the frustration I am experiencing stems from the fact that I accept that my family members are unwilling to change or do the work toward self-knowledge, but that I will not accept that they COULDN'T change - if I'm capable of changing, just about anyone is capable of changing. I find myself unable to feel compassion for them, because I was doing so much work to better myself, and yet they saw it as I have problems to fix, and not "We caused you to be this way." The problem is this still hasn't resolved my anger, but at least has allowed me to see the roots of my frustration with them. And I have noticed that I only become angry when I talk to them about my childhood. I don't know that I can offer you any words of advice or guidance, but I can offer you compassion and empathy. I will say that I have noticed that things have to get worse (internally at least) before they can better. Ripping the duct tape off your mouth is painful and stings for a time, but your mouth is free, and expression can finally happen. Keep working, and find time to feel empathy for yourself!
sagiquarius Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Holy. Fuck buckets. I ... yeah, I am, to say the very least, sofaking sorry for the terribad shit storm of a childhood you had to endure at the hands of evil pieces of shit that see fit to torture helpless and dependent children. I also felt a tremendous degree of solidarity with you when you were describing how things could have been if you weren't so hobbled by your ruinous childhood. I got choked up when reading your recounting of how your boyfriend responded to your story. Sounds like that man is a fucking keeper, and I'm sooo glad you have the strength to work through this. I could identify with a lot of what you were saying. I even felt a pang of pain that your boyfriend was so kind and emotionally available to cry as he did. I'm right there with ya sister, I really am. You and your boyfriend are lucky to have found each other. How have things been since then? I know I raised this post of the dead, but I wouldn't feel right reading something like this and not responding to you. Reading this thread was an emotional roller coaster, and I thank you very much for having the strength to face this and share it as you are.
MMX2010 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Thank you again guys, I have a lot of things to write about now. I'll update this post if I come up with any more questions or things I may get stuck on. I really appreciate the help and kind words! Have you heard Stef model a sincere apology from abusive parent to adult child? I wish I remember which conversations they were in, but the first time I heard them I just bawled my eyes out. He uses a five minute rant that goes something like this, "I'm truly sorry for any and all negative experiences you went through as a child. I take 100% responsibility for all of those negative experiences. I'm sorry that I didn't live up to my one and only duty: to protect you and ensure that you feel loved and cared for. I am also sorry that you are coming to me instead of me coming to you, because as your parent it's my job to bring up my bad parenting voluntarily, rather than waiting for you to bring it to me. I am sorry that I never sought therapy to understand how negative my own childhood experiences were before you were born. I'm sorry for not preparing as best I could to raise you properly." (There's more; I just can't remember.) I ask you about those rants because I can't imagine my father ever saying something like that. So I know that closure, involving my father, involves never talking to him again. But I can imagine my mother saying something like that, although the odds of her doing so are less than 2%. So I know that closure, involving my mother, involves keeping her at a cordial distance, observing for positive signs (such as seeking therapy) but never getting my hopes up until I see those positive signs occurring. I hope that was helpful, or at least not a waste of your time. And I'm glad that you're on your way to healing.
sagiquarius Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Have you heard Stef model a sincere apology from abusive parent to adult child? I wish I remember which conversations they were in, but the first time I heard them I just bawled my eyes out. He uses a five minute rant that goes something like this, "I'm truly sorry for any and all negative experiences you went through as a child. I take 100% responsibility for all of those negative experiences. I'm sorry that I didn't live up to my one and only duty: to protect you and ensure that you feel loved and cared for. I am also sorry that you are coming to me instead of me coming to you, because as your parent it's my job to bring up my bad parenting voluntarily, rather than waiting for you to bring it to me. I am sorry that I never sought therapy to understand how negative my own childhood experiences were before you were born. I'm sorry for not preparing as best I could to raise you properly." (There's more; I just can't remember.) Damn. I think I recall that. Was that in one of the podcasts in the main feeds, or in the donor feeds? "I'm sorry that you are coming to me, instead of me coming to you ...." that is something my father would need to say to me before I even consider having a relationship with him. He'll never do it, but hearing it like that is powerful.
MMX2010 Posted April 11, 2014 Posted April 11, 2014 Damn. I think I recall that. Was that in one of the podcasts in the main feeds, or in the donor feeds? "I'm sorry that you are coming to me, instead of me coming to you ...." that is something my father would need to say to me before I even consider having a relationship with him. He'll never do it, but hearing it like that is powerful. I think it was a call-in show released within the last month or two. That modeled apology was so powerful, because Stef showed us what Justice really is, and what it would feel like to actually receive it. (Naturally, the majority of our parents won't give it to us, but we all have to live with that - and be happy for the rare few on here who have awesome parents.)
tnkltnkl Posted April 14, 2014 Author Posted April 14, 2014 @sagiquarius Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post. I'm so incredibly thankful that I was able to meet someone with a genuine interest in myself, and even more so for being such a wonderful moral influence. Neither of us are even close to perfect in how we treat others, or each other but it's so great to finally have someone to have open and honest conversations and be able to share and grow with. As for how things have been going lately, it's been a mixed basket really. I've decided to make contact with my family in the least amount possible, but I might as well be back living with my mother, since I have nightmares every night about her and my sister and the rest of my family. I haven't been journalling as much as I could be, but I've been trying to look up some information on therapists I could see through skype. @MMX2010 I'm going to need to search that podcast or call down, because just reading you paraphrase it made my heart ache. I want that, SO badly. The problem is I can never see my mother ever apologizing to that extent. She thrives on things being wrong with other people so she can offer her own personal advice and consolation. Someone that unhealthy would never be able to offer an apology of any sort of meaning or quality.
MMX2010 Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 @MMX2010 I'm going to need to search that podcast or call down, because just reading you paraphrase it made my heart ache. I want that, SO badly. The problem is I can never see my mother ever apologizing to that extent. She thrives on things being wrong with other people so she can offer her own personal advice and consolation. Someone that unhealthy would never be able to offer an apology of any sort of meaning or quality. I feel bad that I can't better direct you to that particular podcast. Ever since joining "the conversation" in December, I've listened to so many call-in shows that they all have blended together. My best guess is to start with the most-recent call-in shows and work backwards: I'm 90% certain that the podcast is a call-in show whose number is higher than FDR2297. When I heard it, my heart also ached. But then I combined the heartache with something Stef said in another podcast, "Waiting for an apology from sadistic abusers is like waiting for the bus in the middle of the desert: it's a total waste of time." From there, I've had perfect clarity about my father - regardless of how painful that clarity was to achieve.
MMX2010 Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 I'm going to need to search that podcast or call down, because just reading you paraphrase it made my heart ache. I want that, SO badly. The problem is I can never see my mother ever apologizing to that extent. She thrives on things being wrong with other people so she can offer her own personal advice and consolation. Someone that unhealthy would never be able to offer an apology of any sort of meaning or quality. In the most recent call-in show, FDR 2665, the last caller, melesina, did a very good job of accepting fault for her bad parenting decisions. Her heartbreak, sorrow, remorse, and honesty were bare minimum reactions of what I would accept from my parents. As usual, I don't expect my father to act that way.
MMX2010 Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 I'm going to need to search that podcast or call down, because just reading you paraphrase it made my heart ache. I want that, SO badly. The problem is I can never see my mother ever apologizing to that extent. She thrives on things being wrong with other people so she can offer her own personal advice and consolation. Someone that unhealthy would never be able to offer an apology of any sort of meaning or quality. Ironically, I stumbled across this podcast just now, wherein Stef models an apology from father to daughter. Hope you find it interesting / helpful.
tnkltnkl Posted June 2, 2014 Author Posted June 2, 2014 Well, I just wanted to update this thread a bit as I've made some progress. I literally just got off skype with my mother and wanted to write some things down. The entire time I was explaining my emotions and thoughts to her she listened intently. She never used manipulation or guilt. While she didn't accept responsibility (blamed things on alcoholism) and didn't apologize to my expectations, she was patient and accepted the things I was saying. We had a very great conversation about trying to communicate more openly with each other and to continue to explore our feelings together. She let me know she wanted to do whatever she could for me and even if it was difficult she encouraged me to not let her get away with manipulative language or anything like that. I was so worried that the conversation would turn out differently, just from my nightmares every night where I am screaming to get her to understand and listen to me and she's ignoring me and laughing at me. I'm very relieved that I can at least attempt to begin a more open and honest conversation with her. While I don't expect anything miraculous, I'm glad to have someone else in my life who is willing to explore philosophy with me, and hopefully delve deeper into my past with. I feel very excited, however wary, as well as hopeful. It's been an emotional week, since last Wednesday's call set me to thinking deeply and having tough conversations with people. What do you think? Is it too soon to get excited? What are some things I might not have thought through that I should be careful about?
dsayers Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 What do you think? Is it too soon to get excited? Only you could know. You mentioned being wary, so I'm guessing you're as objective as one could be. I'm really happy to read about her listening to you and giving your experience a chance. As such, I wouldn't get too worried about the blaming on alcoholism just yet. Everybody's at different progress points in their lives (something I often lose sight of) and many people addicted to alcohol are brainwashed into thinking they are powerless against it. Perhaps in time, she can fulfill her espoused desire to do what she can by being honest with herself about herself. In the meantime, I hope you can be a shining example in that regard while not sacrificing yourself for the sake of managing her. Thanks for the update Good news I'd say.
MMX2010 Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 What do you think? Is it too soon to get excited? What are some things I might not have thought through that I should be careful about? Because I don't have a strong bond with either of my parents, I feel like you're asking me about rocket engines, even though I haven't studied rocket engines. So the best I can offer is: (1) No, it's not too soon to get excited, and I'm happy that you're excited. (2) Just remember how long and arduous it was for you to acquire your current level of self-knowledge, and be sure to hold your mother up to that same standard. No excuses. Keep us posted.
miss_fasterEFT Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Hi, I'm glad to see the seeds of self-knowledge spreading and benefiting the community. I'm an EFT and fasterEFT practitioner, you can check the videos by Robert Smith of fasterEFT on YT, he goes through some tapping sessions and explanations. I can direct you further of course, if needed. Best.
Kevin Beal Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 What do you think? Is it too soon to get excited? What are some things I might not have thought through that I should be careful about? I think you've got a hell of a lot of courage for doing that. I think it's a considerate response on her part, but I think the only way you can know is through her actions, rather than her words. Some things I think are worth looking out for are whether or not she initiates these kinds of conversations, if she asks for updates on what you think and feel since last time, things like that. It's a very vulnerable position to be in to always initiate and I personally would resent it if I felt like that was my job in the relationship. And also, it sounded like a big part of what you wanted was acknowledgment that she had played a huge role in the traumas you experienced, and it sounds like she wasn't willing to do that. If that's something you really want, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect given what you've written about your childhood. Maybe it's a sign of great things to come, and I might be jealous of you if it worked out that way, but my concern would be that I would compromise on my own needs for the sake of "making it work". If you want culpability on the part of your mother, I think that's not unreasonable. Also, about the tapping. I actually do that to self soothe sometimes. The posts here are essentially an advertisement, which annoys me, but if you're dealing with stress, it's not a terrible way to self soothe. Definitely beats cutting, or drinking, or masturbating. Nothing wrong with masturbation, just it takes a while, you feel numb afterward and if you're a guy, more than once a day can make things a little,... uncomfortable.
miss_fasterEFT Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 well Kevin, let's say I'm "advertising": there are about 1,000 certified fasterEFT practitioners as per May 2014, so it's a broad brush marketing strategy. Not to mention the thousands of practitioners of traditional EFT, Matrix reimprinting, Positive EFT and all other styles. Secondly, I'm not hiding my skill and I thought my nickname through. Stefan approved my ID and I asked him expressively if it was ok to eventually "offer" sessions . An offer is not coercive, is it? Would you be annoyed if I had IT skills and offered them instead? I'd rather say that I'd like to trigger some interest and curiosity for a tool that has helped me a lot and is helping thousands of others through free content on YT.
tnkltnkl Posted June 5, 2014 Author Posted June 5, 2014 Thank you all for your positive responses! I am excited about this, and it's so nice to not feel apprehensive about speaking to her any more. There's of course always going to be some anxiety and fear left just due to my past experiences with her and how she raised me, at least until I get enough positive reinforcement that she won't continue that same behavior. @dsayers I'm going to keep reminding myself what I want out of the relationship with her, to keep me on track and not just fall into old habits. I'm very determined, and I just hope that she's as determined. I'm sort of worried that she might have ulterior motives for doing this with me (she's getting old and may need someone to take care of her in a few years), but she also does have others like my sister to rely on for that. @MMX Thank you for your advice, I didn't even realize I was asking a question that a lot of people on here might not have an answer to! I'm very thankful for the support, and I'm definitely going to hold her to my own standards. @Kevin Even if I need to tell her what I want/need from her I want to make it clear and easy for her to understand me. Which includes me letting her know that I want her to initiate some of the talks as well. I'm hoping that she'll also open up to me instead of being the listener. I have a pretty hard time remembering everyone else doesn't live inside my brain and doesn't just automatically know or sense my needs. @miss_fasterEFT Thank you for posting the information, I appreciate any help offered. I do have to say, my automatic reactions to posts like those is initially discomfort and disapproval, especially when I see your post count and they are the only posts you have so far. I find I am more likely to check something out if recommended by someone that I've had at least a few interactions with first, and even then it's usually not something they are personally involved in. I may check the video out when I have time but I would definitely recommend that if you really are set on advertising your services, that you also spend some time actually interacting and speaking with others on the forum without the other agenda. I personally have no qualms about people advertising things they do or are passionate about, as long as it's not the only thing they're doing here, however helpful it may be. I'll definitely be posting updates again when I can, and I'm always up for a conversation!
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