I'm Atheist and I can value the concept of God

[Jami]

I can read the the Bible now. Has anyone gone or is going through this? I understand now why I have clung to that kind of faith. My traditional catholic upbringing makes sense now that I am Atheist. In the name of the Father = Truth. The son = Empathy. And the Holy Ghost = self knowledge. Amen=sealing the truth empathy and knowledge together.One God three divine persons. This is why the Bible is the most popular book in existence. This is what Jesus discovered and tried so hard to show the world. The world rejected him and killed him for it. This is why we feel empathy for Jesus. Everyone who clings to faith is guilty about rejecting the reality of truth. This is why I have cried and sobbed while praying to Jesus. I've broken down to him in that state but know now I was trying so hard to break myself down to understand what he went through.

 

This is why I have always loved my religion yet have always felt hypocritical my entire life pursing the truth in the manner from with which it was presented to me.

 

Have you all felt this? Do you feel the same? This is incredible. I don't hate my faith anymore. The two parts of me I thought have separated have not. I've always been whole. The abuse I've suffered is what caused me to split in two. This is the true reason why the world is the way it is.

 

Wow.

I've always said to myself about Jesus after I had heard it somewhere. "Whatever you want to believe about God know this: One mans death changed the world forever." Wow. I understand

 

Everything makes sense! How this is possible! Wow. I need to start my deep breathing and focusing on things here and now. Golllleyyyyyyyy!

 

Also sidenote: Now I am not moving at warp speed. lol. I have been doing this "stuff" my entire life and had no idea. I've slowed down and changed some things around that I was doing. I think because I've come to this reasoning this whole experience just got so much easier. I understand now. I am so happy I found freedomainradio. I appreciate your time reading this.

 

 

Wow. Fourth time editing I have to say one thing very clear. I AM NOT TRYING TO GIVE ADVICE AT ALL! I feel as if I did not say that clearly enough. I'm trying to feel empathy and am using this board to help me. Expressing this emotion I've felt this morning has been another huge step in the right direction.

 

I am getting help for this just so everybody knows.

 

 

7th or 8th time editing this. I was putting Jesus above other men because of the abuse I have suffered. This is why this has caused me such relief. Because that turmoil surfaced. If you can see the fact that I empathize with jesus now has scared me. This caused a reaction. That reaction caused me to recognize my issues with my sexuality.

 

This is not advice these are my thoughts.

[Jami]

I've edited this about 3 times since I recognized this. Whoa I can see it and remember it. I finally know wholeheartedly what I have to do to make my life better for myself and those around me. No wonder why the world has been crashing down around me this week. I'm the one who's been doing the crashing. Whoa.

 

Now's when I say God Bless You, but know I mean Truth Bless You. You are the truth. Love yourselves.

[ribuck]

I've always said to myself about Jesus after I had heard it somewhere. "Whatever you want to believe about God know this: One mans death changed the world forever."

 

There are plenty of people whose death has changed the world forever. Archduke Franz Ferdinand, for example.

 

And there are plenty of people whose survival changed the world forever. Adolf Hitler, who was rescued from drowning at the age of four, for example

 

There's no doubt that the resurrection story changed the world, but probably more for bad than for good (given the number of religious wars since then).

[dsayers]

Have you all felt this?

My dad got me a religious book aimed at adolescents when I was about 13-14. I had been raised Christian, but never formally "asked Jesus into my heart." Something about that book successfully preyed upon my need for ANY escape/explanation from/for the abuse, so I closed my eyes and "prayed hard" for several minutes.As soon as I opened my eyes, I was convinced. Everything was brighter! You know, after having my eyes closed for several minutes, desperately NEEDING to believe in this. What do you know, I ended up seeing things as brighter and believed in it. Must be God.Sorry, nothing stirs my empathy more than war and religiosity. I feel immense contempt for them for being so destructive to humanity.

[Jami]

I understand your feelings and acknowledge your justified anger. It makes so much sense to the logical side of things. I believe you must explore deeper "Why it is I feel this way?". You are so strong and brave. You've reached out to me every post almost I've made. I can really feel how your feeling. I appreciate this from you.

 

"I am interested in the truth. I welcome all corrections and critiques"

 

Keep searching.

 

Did that sound right to you? I'm really dedicated to learning and accepting the art of empathy. I'm trying really hard but am still very much so healing. If I ever say anything out of context or mean or confusing it has nothing to do with you as a person.

 

All I can say is I appreciate your time and the courage you have.

 

Stay strong,

Jami

There are plenty of people whose death has changed the world forever. Archduke Franz Ferdinand, for example.

 

And there are plenty of people whose survival changed the world forever. Adolf Hitler, who was rescued from drowning at the age of four, for example

 

There's no doubt that the resurrection story changed the world, but probably more for bad than for good (given the number of religious wars since then).

Im happy you have expressed yourself!  What I really meant by that was me for the first time being able to truly empathize with Jesus. Not the logical side of things. I was able to recognize that after having this thought. I wrote it all down. There is one thing I will disagree with you about. You say that it is probably more bad than good. It is equal in every way.

 

Oh wait a second.

 

Yeah I should not have posted this like that. It screams irrationality. The faith virus has destroyed many people not just one man. Oh my. TIme to write more in my notebook.

 

Wow I have got to read what I type over and over again before I say it. I feel different. This is me trying to express myself not judge you.

 

I've edited this 4 times. I have so much more to do.

[Mike Fleming]

There are plenty of people whose death has changed the world forever. Archduke Franz Ferdinand, for example.

 

And there are plenty of people whose survival changed the world forever. Adolf Hitler, who was rescued from drowning at the age of four, for example

 

There's no doubt that the resurrection story changed the world, but probably more for bad than for good (given the number of religious wars since then).

 

I don't buy either of those stories.  I think the world was looking for any excuse to go to war and that's why it only took a relatively small incident to push the world over the edge.  If it hadn't have been the Archduke then it would have been something else.  The powderkeg was waiting to be lit.

 

Similar with Adolf Hitler.  There was a gap in the market for some nasty guy to come along.  If it wasn't Hitler, it would have been someone else.  I don't believe there was just one person at the time who was so much more evil and capable than everyone else.  The way the Nazi party operated, in the time they were in, would through a process of selection weed out the good people to find the nastiest, most ruthless person that it could.  That just happened to be Hitler.

 

The same with Jesus.  People were very superstitious and very religious.  They were looking for any excuse to anoint the son of God and be rescued from their sins.  If Jesus had been strangled at birth some other person would have been anointed as the son of God.  And that's assuming there was a Jesus.  If the actual person never existed, the story would have been told regardless.

[GRosado]

There are plenty of people whose death has changed the world forever. Archduke Franz Ferdinand, for example.And there are plenty of people whose survival changed the world forever. Adolf Hitler, who was rescued from drowning at the age of four, for exampleThere's no doubt that the resurrection story changed the world, but probably more for bad than for good (given the number of religious wars since then).

So if wars were fought in the name of libertarianism would you say libertarianism had caused more bad than good. You will dance around that so let me put it a different way, if wars were fought in the name of Stefan Molyneux would you then say that Stefan has caused more bad than good?

[dsayers]

So if wars were fought in the name of libertarianism would you say libertarianism had caused more bad than good. You will dance around that so let me put it a different way, if wars were fought in the name of Stefan Molyneux would you then say that Stefan has caused more bad than good?

 

Mu (invalid question). If Stef consistently speaks of violence not being a valid way of achieving goals, nobody could fight a war in his name. You're asking what would happen if unicorns and leprechauns lived together.

[GRosado]

Mu (invalid question). If Stef consistently speaks of violence not being a valid way of achieving goals, nobody could fight a war in his name. You're asking what would happen if unicorns and leprechauns lived together.

Precisely I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't arguing for violence as a means to achieving a goal. Definitely not asking anything about unicorns & leprechauns, is that considered under the false attribution fallacy.

[dsayers]

You're assuming that there was a Jesus and that the stories told about him were passed off as if true. Even if that's the case, he supported an ideology that said kill non-believers. This is in line with killing non-believers so much so that it's the same words.

[GRosado]

You're assuming that there was a Jesus and that the stories told about him were passed off as if true. Even if that's the case, he supported an ideology that said kill non-believers. This is in line with killing non-believers so much so that it's the same words.

If someone doesn't believe Jesus was a real person they are historically illiterate. I did not make assumptions as to what he said being true, that is simply you assuming that I did. If we look at what Jesus said through historical lenses instead of religious lenses (I use religion as a substitute for mysticism just in this case, also we will ignore his claims to divinity & anything else he said that had to do with religion or following him for this case) it seems to me he didn't preach violence.

[dsayers]

Actually, I didn't assume that you took Jesus to be real and the stories told off him passed of as being true. You indicated as much when you spoke of wars being carried out in his name. If he was a fictional character or an author of fiction, then wars could not be carried out in his name anymore than wars could be carried out in the name of somebody who practices and preaches peaceful interaction.

 

Jesus said he did not come to change one word of the Old Testament. He was a willing participant in a system created by the guy that said kill non-believers, tried to exterminate humanity for not obeying him, confusing them for trying to be like him, the list is nearly endless. Then there's the whole father, son, holy spirit as one.

[Alex Bell]

Jami,

 

Reading your post reminded me of a time I felt a similar way: while playing guitar after consuming MDMA.  My thoughts were erratic, I kept getting overwhelmed by surges of excitement, pleasure, joy and immense satisfaction as it seemed I was hitting all the right notes and no matter what, they sounded beautiful.

 

I'm not asserting any drug use on your part.  I do, however, have experience with the power of such an emotional shift, which in my case was forced through ingesting chemicals.  I mean to illustrate the fact that such a state can be arrived at without actually coming to any understanding of the truth, though in the moment that's Exactly what it feels like.  I haven't since had quite the same experience (chemically induced or otherwise), but at times I notice certain elements of it occurring naturally.

 

 

With this context, two questions if I may:

 

1. Could you elaborate as to how you arrived at your new-found understanding?

2. How would you define God? The Truth? (sorry to sneak an third in there )

 

Thank you for sharing your experience,

Alex

[GRosado]

You're assuming that there was a Jesus and that the stories told about him were passed off as if true. Even if that's the case, he supported an ideology that said kill non-believers. This is in line with killing non-believers so much so that it's the same words.

Lmao you said you didn't assume but read your first sentence you are making an assumption. Anyway the conclusion I'm trying to get people to reach is that people shouldn't demonize any figure or ideology based off of its followers action.Also Seeing how this is getting nowhere & i don't feel like going back & forth im done posting.

[dsayers]

Again, you indicated as much. No assumption was made. I'm guessing what's happening is that you're using the word assume because I did. My use of the word assumption was to indicate that I do not necessarily agree with your belief, but it wasn't actually important to the point I was making. Either Jesus was real and the stories about him are passed off as real, in which case they were doing exactly as they were told. Or the guy and/or the stories about him were works of fictions, in which case you might as well be talking about shooting Reagan to impress Jodie Foster.

 

Anyway the conclusion I'm trying to get people to reach is that people shouldn't demonize any figure or ideology based off of its followers action.

 

I understand that. To which I'm adding that you are neglecting the critical 3rd element: the prescription of that individual/ideology. You failed to consider it when you suggested that wars could be carried out in the name of peaceful individuals/ideologies. You failed to consider it when you suggested that wars in Jesus/Christianity's name do not accrue to Jesus/Christianity despite their prescription of exactly that.

[GRosado]

Again, you indicated as much. No assumption was made. I'm guessing what's happening is that you're using the word assume because I did. My use of the word assumption was to indicate that I do not necessarily agree with your belief, but it wasn't actually important to the point I was making. Either Jesus was real and the stories about him are passed off as real, in which case they were doing exactly as they were told. Or the guy and/or the stories about him were works of fictions, in which case you might as well be talking about shooting Reagan to impress Jodie Foster.I understand that. To which I'm adding that you are neglecting the critical 3rd element: the prescription of that individual/ideology. You failed to consider it when you suggested that wars could be carried out in the name of peaceful individuals/ideologies. You failed to consider it when you suggested that wars in Jesus/Christianity's name do not accrue to Jesus/Christianity despite their prescription of exactly that.

Yup, He was a real person but I have not read everything he said. But I will learn from that 3rd prescription

[Tenko]

I grew up in a catholic household before becoming athiest, now I'm a christian. The last day I spent at catholic mass was the day the priest explained why "Jesus won't forgive you if you smoke pot..." I looked around to see the shock on everyone else's faces, but every person was staring straight at the priest and smiling. The shock I felt wasn't about the priest claiming that marijuana was a sin. In 1910 they couldn't give a shit, but nowadays that's a normal attitude. The shock came from the claim that Jesus won't forgive you for smoking pot.

 

But there's already so much wrong with catholicism that people who want to keep Christ's words should be running like cheetas away from those churches. The ten commandments were altered by catholicism to remove the commandement against graven images, so that parishoners could be praying to statues and pictures. Yet in the Bible Jesus tells us specifically to not do these things. Catholic doctrine promotes repetitious prayer, yet in the Bible Jesus tells us specifically not to engage in vain and repetitious prayer. The pope tells Africans not to wear condoms, in a place where starvation and aids are epidemic. The vatican has always been a storehouse of wealth accumulated over centuries of conquest and unknown business, complete with gold, precious art, jewels, etc. Nearly every catholic priest drives a luxury or semi-expensive car on their way to go preach about how money should be given to the poor, then they collect that money and use it to buy the latest model luxury car. Priests claim the power of God in that they have the ability to absolve your sin and forgive you, and that you cannot find forgiveness unless you go directly to them. The Bible tells us that forgiveness comes from God. The Bible doesn't say that it comes from some guy claiming to act on behalf of God, even if that guy also claims the power to damn you to eternal hellfire for not repenting unto whoever he is.

 

There's plenty more than that, but long story short, catholicism is an awful place to begin at, and you have my sympathies as someone who also suffered through that crap.

[cynicist]

Have you all felt this? Do you feel the same? This is incredible. I don't hate my faith anymore. The two parts of me I thought have separated have not. I've always been whole. The abuse I've suffered is what caused me to split in two. This is the true reason why the world is the way it is.

 

Yeah Stefan has brought this up a number of times. God/Jesus is your unconscious. Nowadays whenever I hear someone talking about "god" I just translate that word into "my unconscious" and it's almost funny, but also very interesting how much more sense their statements make. For example when someone prays for guidance or says god has a plan for me, I just hear them saying that they are expecting some inspiration from their unconscious soon.

[dsayers]

It's a form of narcissism. They don't have to consider other people because all that matters is their relationship with God or what God has to say about X, Y, and Z.

[cynicist]

It's a form of narcissism. They don't have to consider other people because all that matters is their relationship with God or what God has to say about X, Y, and Z.

 

For some people, certainly, but for others I think it's just a way to communicate with what they perceive to be an incredible external source of wisdom that is actually just their own subconscious thoughts. Like how I imagine early humans marveled at the first examples of fire before the phenomenon was understood. The only difference being that no one indoctrinates children with myths about fire today.

[dayna j.]

Yup, He was a real person....

 

How do you know that?  Not to suggest that you are wrong--I am certainly no expert on christianity, but I would be curious to find out what physical evidence supports the notion that jesus was a real person.

[Carl Green]

How do you know that?  Not to suggest that you are wrong--I am certainly no expert on christianity, but I would be curious to find out what physical evidence supports the notion that jesus was a real person.

 

They found an old rag that had a human-ish shaped dirt stain on it. That proves it right there!

[GRosado]

How do you know that? Not to suggest that you are wrong--I am certainly no expert on christianity, but I would be curious to find out what physical evidence supports the notion that jesus was a real person.

In all honesty I'm not an expert on Christianity either but I am a history nut. Well all historians agree he was a real person & they say the two events of his baptism & crucifixion were real. They however hold no opinion on whether he was divine or not, they call it the historical Jesus. Some sources for the existence of Jesus are Josephus, Mara bar Sarapion, Tacitus & Pliny the Younger. I'm not exactly sure if or what the Shroud of Turin proves.