elzoog Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 In 2001, when I thought I was gainfully employed as a computer programmer, I fell in love with a woman. Things escalated quickly and I ended up having a child with her. However, the relationship didn't work out (I admit some of the blame for this) and she left me to live with her family. Soon afterwards, I got laid off and had difficulty finding a job. Because of that, I moved to South Korea to teach English. Every year, or few years, I would get a message from the woman. In about 2004, she requested some money to pay a phone bill, but since I don't have any interaction with my daughter I decided to refuse. I also ordered a paternity test at the time which she never sent in. In 2009, she contacted me out of the blue telling me that my daughter wrote me a letter and wanted my address. I was suspicious as to why this would happen after a few years. So it took me a few weeks to finally decide to give her my address. But then she claims that she lost the letter because she moved and had my daughter write another letter. It was at this time I decided that on condition of dealing with her further, that she actually return a paternity test. So she did, and the paternity test came out positive. It was at this point I decided to send her $150/month on a regular basis. I was able to make phone calls to my daughter until September of 2010 when the phone number I was given didn't work anymore because she didn't pay the bill. I sent her a Christmas present in December. In January of 2011, I sent her a letter that got returned. She did not respond to any attempts at communication so in May of 2011 I decided to stop sending her $150/month. It was at that time she decided to give me an e-mail address where I could e-mail my daughter. However, because I got the same usual unresponsiveness after that, I decided to say that since it is difficult for her to respond to messages or send me messages I'll make her life easier by telling her not to send messages to me at all. I can't think of a good ethical solution for this because there are two conflicting principles 1) As a father I should have a relationship with my daughter 2) Forcing her to have a relationship with me would violate the non-aggression principle. Any thoungts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Hi there. Thank you for sharing your story. If I'm reading the timeline rightly, your daughter was 7-8 before you had any contact with her and would be 11-12 now, is that right? I don't know that two people under those circumstances could ever have a parent-child relationship. Not saying that you couldn't have a fantastic relationship with her, just wanted to make sure you didn't expect so much out of it that you would alienate her. In terms of your two conflicting principles, this kind of dissolves the first one. Do you know why you want a relationship with her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elzoog Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 dsayers, Other than the idea of "I am the biological father therefore she should know me." I don't see a compelling reason logically to have a relationship with her. It bothers me enough that I have asked a ton of people over the years what I should do about it. Should I instead, look into why it is bothering me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I can't answer that question for you. I was abused for decades, so I've come to find real value in understanding WHY I want, think, feel, or believe something. I think it would be of value to you, but I could be wrong. It can be very uncomfortable facing such things, both from within and without. I think a good reason to explore it would be out of consideration for your daughter. If you can answer the question, then it will help you approach her in a way that doesn't violate her. And it can even help to establish the bond if you're honest with yourself and in turn her as to why that relationship should be given a chance. I can't speak for her, but I think it would be easy to argue that being honest and responsible for your presence or lack thereof prior would be of value to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elzoog Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 dsayers,Was it a really jerk move to say something like "Well since it takes you so long to respond how about I make your life easier? How about not responding at all." ?? I'm saying this because for example, it took until May of the next year to find out if she got the Christmas presents I sent her. I admit that I was a bit late sending them, as in, about maybe 5 days late. Maybe they were thinking that if I can be late, they can be late too? And that a day in my time equals a month in their time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Maybe they were thinking that if I can be late, they can be late too? This is speculation. I don't know if what you mentioned was a "jerk move." It's worth examining your intentions. 1) IF you don't want her to respond and she was already not responding, then inviting her to not respond is actually a provocation to respond. This would not make the life of somebody who didn't want to respond easier. 2) Based on that analysis, you weren't doing it for her while claiming to be doing it for her. 3) Based on those points, I think it's safe to say that "since it takes you so long to respond" was meant to shame or otherwise make her feel bad. Maybe you felt hurt so you felt justified in retaliating. Each of those points are based on the ones before it, so if I made a wrong turn somewhere, it would steer the rest of the analysis off course. If however they're accurate, then yes, I would classify those words as a jerk move. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elzoog Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 This is speculation. I don't know if what you mentioned was a "jerk move." It's worth examining your intentions. 1) IF you don't want her to respond and she was already not responding, then inviting her to not respond is actually a provocation to respond. This would not make the life of somebody who didn't want to respond easier. 2) Based on that analysis, you weren't doing it for her while claiming to be doing it for her. 3) Based on those points, I think it's safe to say that "since it takes you so long to respond" was meant to shame or otherwise make her feel bad. Maybe you felt hurt so you felt justified in retaliating. Each of those points are based on the ones before it, so if I made a wrong turn somewhere, it would steer the rest of the analysis off course. If however they're accurate, then yes, I would classify those words as a jerk move. What do you think?It seemed like it was the best I could do at the time. Since a relationship requires communication, then not communicating means there can't be a relationship. If she isn't communicating with me then that indicates that she doesn't want to have a relationship. So I felt I was left with something like "Since you aren't communicating, let's just go ahead and make things easier and admit that you don't want a relationship."A few problems with this action though.1) Since I did in fact want to have a daughter at the time I was with her mother, I am partly responsible for her existence.2) Much of her non-communication might not be her fault. Could be caused bya) Her mother making any communication medium difficult to access or use.b) She might be too young to understand the consequences of her actions.I am simply acknowledging that I can not think of a more rational response to this situation. I am also admitting that nobody else so far is capable of giving me a more rational response (only advice I got is "hire a lawyer" which seems to be both expensive, and it violates the non-aggression principle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootoo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I would.... Support: cost as little as possible and make the rest available to support my child either now or saved for the future Access: Give my address, phone number(s) and email address(es) to allow access 24/7 I dont think you are violating anything by making a relationship possible. I dont think you can force it on her. Do everything you can from now to show that you are serious and you care about your daughter. That way if her mother is being a cunt and keeping you apart you will still be effectively prepared to help if needed, and can demonstrate your love for your daughter by showing all you have done in-spite of the cunt getting in the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elzoog Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 The mother recently posted this on her facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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