Hector_Viera Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Really I have no idea, I really like read your thoughts. Thanks!! Héctor
dsayers Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Is what an army does immoral? Is what police do immoral?
Hector_Viera Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 I asked for answers not questions, mate. Héctor
dsayers Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Well if you have no idea, then how are you going to go about determining if answers that are given are valid? Do you think one could answer the question you put forth without examining the ones I put forth first?
Hector_Viera Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 Answer a question with a question is not an answer my friend. Is called rethoric, a well cared art of sophists of all times. Anybody have an answer on this topic? Héctor
Mike Fleming Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 There is a place for security in a free market society. As long as there is demand for security people will supply it. This will likely not be in the form that the police are currently in, and will certainly be nothing like the army which is incredibly wasteful and inefficient and no-one would pay for because it is just lots of money for crap service.. Maybe someone will brand their security business "Police" and use similar uniforms, although I doubt it because I expect the police to have such a bad name throughout society at that point that no-one will want to associate their business with this historically corrupt and largely inept institution. Like how school will also have a bad name which we can see starting to happen now. But if there is a demand for security there will be people who supply it. But it will be protection of property rights which has little to do with what the police do and nothing to do with what the army does. So it will essentially be nothing like the Police or army of today.
dsayers Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 That's what my original point was. Armed forces are offensive. Police are involuntary. Both violate property rights. One might as well ask if there's a place for rape and murder in a free society. There's value in sex and euthanasia. It's the coercion that is the problem.
Hector_Viera Posted January 25, 2014 Author Posted January 25, 2014 Thank you so much guys!! If I seem rude it's because this topics are really serious to me (@dsayers I hope there is not hard feelings ). Here in Chile, almost the majority of my colleagues (I'm clinical psychologist) have left-wing thoughts, and I never trust in such ideology. Suddenly I was fortunate to find Stefan's videos in youtube and almost all pieces of the puzzle fit together. There are some pieces that I see in a different way in epistemology, but this is my personal problem, I don't want be some kind of ''messias of the real version of reality'', only a psychotic have ''the last word'', the ''point of view of god's eye'', the absolutely certainty and all the answers. So here I am, asking, reading, listening. Finally I found people truly interested in the genuine and really human way to reach freedom, and I want learn about all of you. Again, thanks to all of you!!
Mike Fleming Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 One other thing to mention is that you may have heard stories from parents or grandparents in your society about how nobody locked their doors and no-one was worried about crime decades ago. I think the rise in crime is largely an effect of the rise in government. The question to ask, in a free society with child abuse either wiped out or almost wiped out, is will people even see a need for security? Will there even be a demand for security? If there is, I expect it to be fairly low level but it might be that none is required at all. Hard for me to imagine, but if the theories are right about peaceful parenting then who knows how far it might go. Maybe the disease of crime will be wiped out. Seems a bit hopeful and utopian from my current perspective (and probably everyone else's) but maybe science is telling us, as unlikely as it seems, that it's a real possibility.
dsayers Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Seems a bit hopeful and utopian Actually, the current system is utopian. The belief that if you steal from everybody and threaten everybody, every problem will go away and if it doesn't, you need to steal more and make bigger threats. THAT is utopian. How will we deal with polio? Simple: Figure out where it comes from and prevent it. Violence is no different. It's not utopian to believe that once you prevent violence, there will hardly be any violence.
Magnus Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 Army, no, police, yes. It may be possible to reduce violence to a point that the security is all but invisible, most of the time. A designated, uniformed police force is a relatively new invention, actually. Since people always accuse me of being utopian, I've learned to front-load a disclaimer that, in practice, there will never be a 100% free society. There will always be murder and theft. So, I usually resort to couching my position as aiming at a "freer" society, rather than a "free" one. The "utopian" allegation arises, I believe, whenever any proposal challenges the system as a whole, as opposed to one that seeks to work within the existing system. People are deeply brainwashed into assuming the system is what stands between them and a Mad Max lifestyle.
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