FOO driving me nuts

[Emanuel]

Good afternoon people.

I'd like to give a short backstory to what's going on right now.

 

I've started listening to FDR in April 2013, and I became more and more conscious of the extreme abuse that went on in my life, primarily perpetrated by my parents.

I separated from my father without giving him a word and moved away from my mother's house in July. I went to live at a friend's house(his mom's house).

She's also an abusive, manipulative and hysterical mystic bitch. I was too troubled to notice at the time, but now I know.

 

I went back to live with my mother in September because I wanted to be able to save more money.

I started working at the family's driving school(my mother's side). I have been working there since October 2013.

My grandmother, who started the school, was away on vacation at that time. She just came back for a week to check up on the school and make updates.

Last week, I posted here to say I wanted to move very far away from my mother's place and probably never see her again.

I'm very scared of providing for myself, as I think I can only make very little money with my current skills, and that the cost of living is very high where I am at the moment.

 

Now my mother found out about that post, and she told my grandmother. She came by today to talk with me about my commitment to the driving school and their "love and attention" towards me. My heart was beating extremely fast during the entire encounter, and I didn't say a word. I told myself recently that I would not talk to them, or be honest with anyone other than my closest friends. She said that I was very fragile after what happened to me, and that she also had a very traumatic history, but that she would not go into it because "that's not her style, she's more like gogogo and getting shit done". She said that my mother "couldn't do anything, was paralized by my father", but she also said that my father was a good man and an honest worker, and that he could not control his urge to control.

 

I kept telling myself in my head: "That's bullshit! She could have acted at any time! You could have stopped it any time!" I didn't say anything though. She even said that she loved me, with a smile. It was terrifying and humiliating.

 

I don't think I can keep this up anymore. I think I need to get all these people out of my life right now or as soon as humanly possible. I think I could live in my car, but money would quickly become an issue. I don't have a job outside of the driving school work. I don't know what to do anymore. I'm so lost.

 

Please, anything that you might have to say, just say it. I don't think it can get worse from here on out.

 

[MMX2010]

She said that I was very fragile after what happened to me, and that she also had a very traumatic history, but that she would not go into it because "that's not her style, she's more like gogogo and getting shit done".

 

First off, a little about me.  I started listening to FDR in October/November of 2013, and am also living with my parents to save money until I move out in June.  My father is the highly abusive one, while my mother (although somewhat abusive herself) is mostly the "victim" of his abusive behavior.  Living here (since last June), and listening to FDR, has given me such clarity on how screwed up this family unit is that I don't care if moving out blows up in my face.

 

Secondly, in my opinion, those lines tell you all you need to know.  (1) She says she also had a very traumatic history, but refuses to tell you what that history entailed.  (2) She only mentioned that history to insult you by calling you "fragile", and to suggest that you become a "gogogo / get shit done" sort of person.  BUT, by moving out on your own, you're arguably becoming a "gogogo / get shit done" sort of person.  And YET, this isn't good enough for her, because she wants you to stay in the family business.

[Emanuel]

Thanks for the reply, MMX. I'm sorry that you find yourself in a situation that seems somewhat similar to mine. I was also thinking of moving away some time in April, or even as far as October, but now I don't know so much. I mean, how much more of this sort of stuff can I go through before I go mental? Also, I do have a little stack of money, though it's mostly in the form of Bitcoins and Silver.

(around 3500$ of value). I can continue working there and living at my mother's, and I am able to save up to 300$ a week, which is incredible.

 

I'm extremely skeptical of people who claim to be victims, unless they are children, of course. I think it's a really nasty way to push responsibility onto someone else.

 

I don't know what she wants. But I know she said that my mother was her legacy, and that I was a part of that, "her baby". I think everyone in the business is psychopathic, or don't have empathy. Not just the family members. I know I don't want to expose more of myself to them, but maybe the little part they saw was too much already. What do you think?

 

I sort of feel a little more calm, seems like the fight or flight is gone, or at least part of it. I'm at a lost here. I've tried to schedule a call with the big chatty forehead, and I'm sure that will be a lot of help to me. I also think I need to reflect more on this before I try to move on with my decision. I'm scared of not being able to provide if I leave "too soon". I'm also scared of staying too long and losing a part of myself in the process.

[MMX2010]

I don't know what she wants. But I know she said that my mother was her legacy, and that I was a part of that, "her baby".

 

One of Stef's best one-liners immediately popped into my head here: "Abusive people only want two things: they want to abuse you, and they want you to stay."

 

------------

 

Some more about me.

 

As I mentioned earlier, my father has always been the loud, temper-throwing, name-calling, insulting, abusive one.  A couple of months ago, my mother drove me to get my car inspected.  But when we arrived, we discovered that we could wait about two more months before getting the car inspected.  I, unfortunately, hadn't had any sleep that night, and told my mom assertively (no yelling, no cursing) that I just wanted to get the car inspected, so I could go home and sleep.

 

She told my father what happened, and he confronted me about it.  After a long argument between us, he told me, "Don't you think it's my job as a husband to make sure that no one abuses my wife?"

 

That question, (which he asked in all fucking seriousness), confirmed how irrational he is, how irrational he wants to be, and how he doesn't want anyone else to judge him for his irrationality.  I blinked twice, calmly told him, "Don't go there; DON'T go there", and have never talked to him about anything substantive ever since.  (He tries to talk to me, and I either give him short, one-word-answers that derail conversations, or I participate kindly - whichever ends the conversation fastest.  But I will never respect him, nor confront him.

 

I have my clarity, and so I don't need to talk to him about my history, his abusive parenting, or anything else.  But I also feel like you don't have your clarity.  So either: (1) get clarity by confronting the necessary people, (2) state, right now, that you have achieved clarity - but are resisting the implications of that clarity.  (I, personally, don't think there's any other option.  If anyone else wants to provide other options, they can.)

[Emanuel]

That one-liner. Wow.

 

I think that communication in written form can be so elusive. There is no tone or context to the words of other people.

 

  After a long argument between us, he told me, "Don't you think it's my job as a husband to make sure that no one abuses my wife?"

 

Words like argument and told are lacking in emotional content. And believe me, this is not a criticism I'm making. I just think that whenever I try to use language, I miss the intensity-defining words.

 

Anyway, sounds like an asshole, if you don't mind me saying so.

My father acts confused and says to my brother that he doesn't know what's the matter with me and that anything I want, he will provide. I just think it's no longer the time for that kind of stuff.

Generosity had to come when I couldn't leave, but now that I can, and do, it's oh-pity me, it was the other parent's fault, yada yada yada. I hate these people.

That's not even mentioning the Jehovah's Witness upbringing, which I've been looking more into, and I'm experiencing a deep rage.

 

I can understand trying to limit the interactions as much as possible. I couldn't bring myself to even attempt to look like I respect those people.

 

I think I want to see if they bring up the past again, as I will be meeting them for business tomorrow. If they mention it, or make reference to it, I think I just want to tell them to never bring that up around me again. I don't want to hear anything that they have to say about that and I don't want to talk with them about it.

 

Where do you get the feeling I don't have clarity? I'm curious about this. I think I know exactly what these people are and that I don't want anything to do with them. The problem is that I'm in relationships with them and we interact every single day. What's that about the implications of the clarity?

 

Again, thanks for posting, I appreciate you sharing your history. It gives me perspective on my own issues.

 

Out of curiosity, why have you chosen June as the month to leave?

[dsayers]

Emanuel, I know the put on the spot tactic all too well. I was gutted to hear about what happened to you.

 

How did your mother find out about the post? Will she not also find out about this one?

 

How could they say your father was a good man AND paralyzed your mother? How could they say there's nothing your mother could do because of your father if she in fact chose that man?

 

I am in a similar situation as you. I really need to get out of where I am, but am afraid of making it on my own. I've done it before, but economic times have changed dramatically. You're younger and this is to your advantage. I relied on my family and who knew who to get my first half dozen jobs. It prevented me from developing interview skills or even understand that I needed to be able to be hired based on my merit. Don't fall into the same trap I did if you can avoid it. By this I mean try and get employment elsewhere.

 

The difficulty you're facing is that you're dependent on her both for your place to live and your income. That's not going to be an easy situation to escape.

[Tyler Durden]

Dude, you're heading in the wrong direction here and you don't even realize it. The idea is not to run away from them, the idea is to use the truth and your moral outrage to make them run away from you.

 

You have the upper hand here, reality is on your side, you just need to use it.

 

My heart was beating extremely fast during the entire encounter, and I didn't say a word. I told myself recently that I would not talk to them, or be honest with anyone other than my closest friends.

 

I kept telling myself in my head: "That's bullshit! She could have acted at any time! You could have stopped it any time!" I didn't say anything though. She even said that she loved me, with a smile. It was terrifying and humiliating.

 

I don't think I can keep this up anymore.

Why do you think you're heart was beating extremely fast? Because they know the truth, they know you know the truth, but they're telling a different story in which they look noble and you look "fragile". They're telling this story straight to your face because they think you don't have the guts to stand up for yourself and call them out on it.

 

Your heart was beating fast because you know you can call them out, you even have the exact sentences that you need to say in your head! But you chickened out. And don't get me wrong, it's completely understandable that you're scared, but if you want to get out of this you will need to override that fear with courage. Your balls are your most important allies here.

 

So instead of keeping your mouth shut when it actually matters, open it up and speak your mind.

 

And when they attack you for speaking the truth, which they will do for as long as they think you're weak, stay with your feelings. Attacks for speaking the truth fuel your moral outrage, and moral outrage is your friend.

 

I know I don't want to expose more of myself to them, but maybe the little part they saw was too much already. What do you think?

You should want to expose more of yourself to them! Don't you want to exist? Don't you want to stand up for yourself and put them in their place?

 

She told my father what happened, and he confronted me about it.  After a long argument between us, he told me, "Don't you think it's my job as a husband to make sure that no one abuses my wife?"

 

That question, (which he asked in all fucking seriousness), confirmed how irrational he is, how irrational he wants to be, and how he doesn't want anyone else to judge him for his irrationality.  I blinked twice, calmly told him, "Don't go there; DON'T go there", and have never talked to him about anything substantive ever since.  (He tries to talk to me, and I either give him short, one-word-answers that derail conversations, or I participate kindly - whichever ends the conversation fastest.  But I will never respect him, nor confront him.

All the above goes for you as well. The ideal response to this sentence would be to stare him straight in the eyes, pause for a second, and then say "Don't you think it's your job as a father to make sure that no one abuses your child?" and then keep a straight face and maintain eye contact.

 

The man is weak and confused and is asking you a question, he's basically handing you the dominant position on a platter and all you need to do is accept it, but instead you decide to terminate the conversation and walk away from him.

 

By dominant position I mean dominant male position btw, your mom is clearly still in charge.

 

I'm experiencing a deep rage.

 

I can understand trying to limit the interactions as much as possible. I couldn't bring myself to even attempt to look like I respect those people.

 

I think I want to see if they bring up the past again, as I will be meeting them for business tomorrow. If they mention it, or make reference to it, I think I just want to tell them to never bring that up around me again. I don't want to hear anything that they have to say about that and I don't want to talk with them about it.

Good, let the rage out man.

 

Don't tell yourself that "couldn't even attempt to look like I respect those people" story because so far that is exactly what you've been doing. You've kept all your legitimate moral outrage to yourself with the sole purpose of "attempting to look like you respect these people".

 

There are clearly many events in your past for which you need to set the record straight, so instead of hoping that they never bring it up again it would be better to think about how good it will feel to finally stand up for yourself and tell them exactly how you feel about their bullshit.

 

It's perfectly okay to be scared, but choose fight instead of flight. And if they knock you down, just get up and choose fight again.

 

Also, watch the Danish movie "Festen" aka "the Celebration" for inspiration.

[Mike Fleming]

Dude, you're heading in the wrong direction here and you don't even realize it. The idea is not to run away from them, the idea is to use the truth and your moral outrage to make them run away from you.

 

You have the upper hand here, reality is on your side, you just need to use it.

 

 

My experience is that reality doesn't work on these type of people.  My mother is a complete hysterical narcassist and I tried using rational arguments for years.  It doesn't work.  It may in the moment, but these kind of people just see it as an attack and hold a grudge.  They have intimate knowledge of you, if mother or father, and will use any little thing to attack you at any moment and if you still have your empathy you will feel pain.

 

i don't know if you are suggesting going on the attack, or using their tactics against them or whatever, but if you are I would suggest it's not a good idea.  It's literally getting into the mud with the pig.  Even if you win, which is unlikely, you will end up as dirty as the pig.  My experience, is that this is a no-win situation.

 

I don't really have any good advice for the OP.  I would suggest maybe just coming up with a long-term plan if nothing short-term seems viable.  Maybe slowly squirelling money away, spending as little time with them as possible, and just working towards the goal of freeing yourself.  Like the prisoner slowly digging a tunnel to freedom but still having to put up with the sadistic guards every day.

[Eva]

Emanuel, I'm so sorry about your situation. You seem to have a very good understanding of what's going on, and your feelings attuned to reality.

 

I really empathise with your fear of becoming independent, as it has happened to me. You will find that most of this fear is, in fact, about your parents or family, and not about the possibility to support yourself. This makes a lot of sense if you think of the main reason children stay with their abusive parents: that they are unable to survive by themselves; but this is kind of an evolutionarily motivated illusion.

 

Today children could practically leave their parents and easily find shelter somewhere else, which they would do if they could see and accept the reality of their condition. Similarly, your brain is not free to work out solutions to your practical problems still, because it is too busy dealing with your inner parents and this basic biological dilemma rooted in childhood.

 

Besides, do you feel any shame about the prospect of having to ask for help from strangers, for example?Strangers will probably be more benevolent towards you than your family, for the reasons you know... Do you have a certain ideal about how your independent life should be? Remember you are leaping into the unknown; you do not know what will happen, but you are well equipped for it, and it will be exciting.

 

In the worse case scenario you know you can always go back and use your family in the same way as now; in the end of the day, they are the unconscious and broken ones, and you can learn to manage them.

 

I hope this helps, good luck with everything!

[Lians]

Having a map isn't helpful if you don't know where you are in relation to it. Your first reaction to your strong feelings is: "What do I do?" You're desperately looking for something that you can do in order to quell the internal turmoil. In my experience, that's never the right approach. You're looking for a map but only your feelings can tell you where you are on it. Listen to them. Stay with them. Explore them.

 

You moved in with your parents and even started working for them. Even if the former was inevitable, you could have looked for a different job. You mention how much you're able to save by working for them, but you avoided the essential question: Compared to what? Let me offer a simple calculation.

 

Suppose your goal is to save $10,000 before you move out. In your current job you're saving $300 a week and you'll be able to move out in roughly 33 weeks or 7.6 months. Let's assume that you'll only be saving $200 with a different job. The new rate of saving will get you to the goal in 50 weeks or 11.5 months. Four additional months of living with your parents? Not good. However, let's adjust this calculation for the time you spend with your family. With your current job, you're spending 24 hours a day around them. Assuming you'll be working 8 hours a day at your new job, you'll be spending only 16 hours with your family - 67% of what your current environment offers. Factoring this ratio in the previous calculation, you'll have to spend 7.6 months of family time with your current job and 7.7 with a new job, which is a difference of roughly 3 days. That's an insignificant cost compared to spending 33% of your day away from your abusers. You can, of course, work longer hours or get a second job.

 

I'm not willing to accept that such a simple consideration is beyond the abilities of your conscious or even unconscious mind. That leaves us with a simple question: Why did you really decide to work for your parents? This question may bring up a lot of strong emotions in you. I'll advise you to listen to them without an agenda. Your feelings are your body's way of informing you about your environment, not signs of a disease that you must eradicate. I wish intellectual understanding was enough to clinch the case against your abusers but that's not how human beings operate. It's necessary but not sufficient. Once you process your feelings you'll have the choice - and hopefully motivation - to do what is right.

 

Stef explained this idea in more detail during a recent call-in show:

 

FDR 2601 (starting at 1 hour 20 mins):

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/FDR_2601_Wednesday_Show_29_Jan_2014.mp3

 

It's also one of the core principles behind mindfulness meditation (doing vs being mode). For more information:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-embrace-the-being-mode-of-mind-for-mindfuln.html

http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Eight-Week-Finding-Peace-Frantic/dp/1609618955

[Holo Cene]

Wow, your situation sounds difficult to say the least. It is a tragedy the things people do to the ones they claim to love. I feel a lot of empathy with your situation and I remember those feelings of dread and anxiety when dealing with my mother. You now have your best interests firmly in sight, and I would imagine your whole being is rejoicing at that fact. As you reveal more of the healthy part of your spirit the more hope and momentum you build. Whatever you do maintain strict boundaries between you and your family until you figure a way out so they cannot try to drag you back into the hell with them.

[Emanuel]

 

How did your mother find out about the post? Will she not also find out about this one?

I left the computer on at my workplace and it was on the page of the forum post. My mother wouldn't come to this website willfully.

 

 

 

Suppose your goal is to save $10,000 before you move out. In your current job you're saving $300 a week and you'll be able to move out in roughly 33 weeks or 7.6 months. Let's assume that you'll only be saving $200 with a different job. The new rate of saving will get you to the goal in 50 weeks or 11.5 months. Four additional months of living with your parents? Not good. However, let's adjust this calculation for the time you spend with your family. With your current job, you're spending 24 hours a day around them. Assuming you'll be working 8 hours a day at your new job, you'll be spending only 16 hours with your family - 67% of what your current environment offers. Factoring this ratio in the previous calculation, you'll have to spend 7.6 months of family time with your current job and 7.7 with a new job, which is a difference of roughly 3 days. That's an insignificant cost compared to spending 33% of your day away from your abusers. You can, of course, work longer hours or get a second job.

I should have been more clear and say that when I'm working for them, they're not around. I only spend about the equivalent of 15-30 minutes per day talking on the phone with them.

I also don't spend a lot of time at home, I'm mostly away. But I think I understand what you're saying.

 

Thank you all for your kind words. I take them to heart and will think about this more. I'll be back when I feel I understand this better.

[dsayers]

I left the computer on at my workplace and it was on the page of the forum post. My mother wouldn't come to this website willfully.

 

Maybe I'm projecting. If my father figured out that he could gather ammo to use against me by refreshing the post history of X on site Y, it would become part of his daily routine.

[MMX2010]

 Out of curiosity, why have you chosen June as the month to leave?

 

It's job-related.  All of my clients are in one area, and when I move (three time zones away) I'll have to re-establish my business.  So the best time to move is during June.

 

Oh, and when your father says, "I'll do anything for you." - he doesn't mean "anything-literally"; he means "anything I feel comfortable providing, which I'm trying to pass off as anything-literally."

[Maciej Bembnista]

 

Whatever you do maintain strict boundaries between you and your family until you figure a way out so they cannot try to drag you back into the hell with them.

 ...and Emanuel- it takes time! With a lot of emotional pain. That was at least (and occasionally still is) my own experience.But there is no other (known) way to undo the damage they have done to your mind, to you, I think.XOXO,m.