Pursuing self-knowledge while married

[ebrink06]

Hi! This is my first post and I'm kind of excited and nervous about it. I'm just looking for some perspective from you wise folks on a relationship situation:We've been together 7 years, married 4 1/2 years. Her childhood was very difficult. She left home at 15, has always taken on a lot of responsibility, and has never been single. Because of that, I've understood from the beginning of our relationship when we were 23, that she needed to take time for herself.I would often suggest she do so- take a relaxing day off, go for a walk in the woods alone, read/write/reflect etc. But she's always busy- It's gotten better over the years, but there were times when she was regularly double or triple booked.In the last year or two she's started to spend time alone maybe one afternoon every couple of months to hike and journal. She also largely distanced herself from me during this period of time and spent the majority of her time at work or with friends. Now she's saying she wants to travel the country alone for an undefined extended period of time in order to figure out who she is and what she wants. "Maybe 8 months?" she said when I asked how long she thought she needed.At first I was excited that she had made the decision to get to know herself. Now I'm just wishing she had paced herself over the last 7 years instead of arriving at this point where she feels like she has to do something that extreme. I'm also concerned about my needs in the marriage continuing to not be met. (1 1/2 years of distance + another year of her being completely gone)Would it be unreasonable, wrong, or counterproductive of me to ask her to pursue self-knowledge if not with me, along side of me? I want her to know herself, but maybe she could also learn some more about me in the process and it would make our relationship stronger. I want the best for her, but also for me, and for us as couple.

[dsayers]

Welcome to FDR. I wish you didn't have such a large problem to post about, but I'm glad you felt like you could share.

 

I was wondering if you could elaborate on what "her childhood was very difficult" means. Also, "She left home at 15, has always taken on a lot of responsibility" sounds rather mundane and voluntary, but I'm guessing it was significantly more traumatic than that. Finally, do you know why it is that she has never been single?

 

I have some thoughts, but would like to hear your elaborations to these items first if you don't mind.

[ebrink06]

Thank you dsayers. This is a long one...

 

The details of her difficult childhood are truly horrific- she had a bed wetting problem when she was school age. Her parents didn't care for her hygiene so she was ostracized by other children. Her step father at one point held up the "mess" she had made to her face, yelled at her and threatened to make her wear diapers. The only memory she has of her biological father before he left was him coming home drunk and vomiting in a drawer. She was molested by a neighbor, she then did the same to her younger brother at which point CPS was called and he was almost taken away. That brings us to age eleven when she started smoking cigarettes... She was raped at eleven- her attacker (who also had an outbreak of oral herpes) told her to relish it because she would never be loved. She was very close to her cousin who lived down the street. Her uncle started abusing alcohol when his wife died and at some point a meth dealer started living there and the cousins got addicted to it when they were young teenagers. The cousin ended up in prison with a baby, but I hear she's out and clean now. My wife (as a teen) was approached by a social worker who told her that she was smarter than that which really resonated with her and she quit. That's why she left home at 15- to remove herself from the situation so she could move on. However, she was "taken in" by a group of hippies where drug and sexual abuse continued to occur on a seemingly more subdued level. She eventually left there into a more improved environment when she was old enough to sign a lease (18).

 

I knew she had been addicted to meth and been raped. I have always admired her for being strong enough to leave behind meth and all the people she was so close to. Everything else has come out more recently. Most of it she didn't even remember- one memory started triggering others. This starting around the time she started distancing herself from me. She was very offended by the fact that I blamed her parents and felt anger toward them. She has an extreme distaste for the slightest expression of frustration or anger, and declares that compassion is the only way to deal with any situation. She says that if I don't approve of her family, I don't approve of her because they're one in the same. I need to figure out a way to communicate to her that this is not the case- that she is distinct from them.

 

As far as her responsibilities- she has not strayed too far from home originally because she knew at some point she would need to take care of her younger brother. He attempted suicide then moved in with us when he was 16. He was on his own for a while but is now living with his parents again. He's 23 now. She realizes now that she not only stayed purely to help him, but because she felt guilty about her role in his pain. She also is trying to clean up her parents place- and convince her mom not to be a hoarder. She cares for a couple different friends with severe medical issues. She takes on as much responsibility at work as possible. She has been helping me start a business. She wants to pursue her childhood dream of saving the world- in a realistic way of corse without a cape... And she understands that she needs to start with herself.

 

I've never specifically asked her why she has never been single. Since she's so social and has a very pleasing personality, she probably fell into relationships very easily. Since she has never really known truly what she wanted, she adapts to her lovers, realizes that her self has been completely annihilated by the relationship, then she leaves. It seems like that is what's going on here. Now that she has been on the path of self knowledge, she has started to assert herself more and we have more disagreements. This is not a problem for me- I would love to be with a "whole" person. She on the other hand is very sensitive when I express a differing opinion. I explained to her that it's okay if we disagree, that it's not a personal attack on her, that she and I are BOTH entitled to our opinions. She said she understood.

 

She has such a wonderful outlook on life despite all she's been through. She says her philosophy has been to "fake it until you make it", and that she's ready to stop faking.

[Prairie]

She was very offended by the fact that I blamed her parents and felt anger toward them. She has an extreme distaste for the slightest expression of frustration or anger, and declares that compassion is the only way to deal with any situation. She says that if I don't approve of her family, I don't approve of her because they're one in the same. I need to figure out a way to communicate to her that this is not the case- that she is distinct from them.

 

Apologies for jumping in. This is my own experience/preference regarding others who are trying to help me, and it might provide some ideas as to her reaction: When I'm having someone listen to me, it doesn't work at all if they try to take up my cause for me, because they inevitably go a different direction and it tends to make it hard for them to listen to me talk about my issue. I don't think the listener to my story has much place to be angry at my abuser. My issue is personal and ever-changing as I work through it. I don't want someone treating them like a bad person or anything that's not connected to their own mistreatment at the person's hands, as it reframes what I'm saying as them being a bad person. At least for me, my sole problem is with the abuser's actions towards me, and their lack of acknowledgement of it (which is another one of the actions towards me). Finally, someone else taking up the cause without my request makes my personal issue something that I have less decision in when it's discussed or acted on. I need to have sole control of when and how it's dealt with; those helping me must not take their own initiative and do what they consider helpful, even if I am not OK with it. 

[ebrink06]

No apologies necessary prairie- I posted to gain perspective. I definitely see the value in a victim having full control over his or her situation. I guess what I don't understand in this particular detail of the story, as well as in general, what is the role of my emotional responses and needs as a spouse?

[dsayers]

she had a bed wetting problem when she was school age. Her parents didn't care for her hygiene so she was ostracized by other children. Her step father at one point held up the "mess" she had made to her face, yelled at her and threatened to make her wear diapers.

 

The whole story was indeed truly horrific. I'm glad that it's getting out now. One of the things that truly disturbs me about stories like this (after the content itself of course) is how many of these stories there really are. It puts into perspective how important discussions of child abuse and what constitutes child abuse really are.

 

Anyways, I did want to point out that the bed wetting you opened with isn't actually the beginning of the story. It's an effect of abuse even if the abuse was "only as mild as" the neglect of not teaching her to manage her need to expel waste by using devices we have for it. Though it's usually more than that. I wet the bed until I was about 10 even though I was mimicking toilet use as early as being one year old.

 

I don't think the listener to my story has much place to be angry at my abuser.

 

I emphatically disagree. Acquaintance with a person is not necessary to have an emotional reaction to their behavior. Take this thread for example, I am angry to learn of the abuse described. I don't know the victim, the abusers, or even the person telling the story.

 

Anyways if somebody dies and it was a horrible person, then yes, pointing out that they were a horrible person to somebody who is grieving isn't useful or appropriate. However, you're talking about abuse she's lived with for decades. The period of just being "supportive" for the sake of calming them is way over. I think displaying and speaking of anger if that's how you feel is not only appropriate, but important. She needs to see SOMEBODY get angry about it. Given her reactions and what she's said since, it's clear she normalized it. Probably nobody ever got angry, so she just accepted it as the norm.

 

As I understand it, this is one of the most important reasons why we should say something when parents abuse their children in the open. If nothing else, it shows the child that this is NOT okay.

 

ebrink, I'm really sorry for the position you're in. Do you feel that it was a good move for you to commit to somebody you didn't know that well or to somebody that was that broken up and not repaired before committing to another person? I ask because I have a feeling that what you expect to follow and what could actually follow do not overlap. To that end, have you thought about what would happen or what would you do if it turns out that who you married and who you're married to are different people? Or if who she discovers that she is requires your absence?

 

Unless you have a deep understanding of psychology, the development of self-knowledge of another person almost has to happen without you. You might be able to provide perspective IF THEY SEEK IT. Plus, the fact that you are part of her history at this point will cloud both your ability to help and her ability to receive help from you. To avoid this, you would both have to be steeped in self-knowledge and have a grasp on psychology.

 

I really hate having to be frank in such matters

[Prairie]

I don't think the listener to my story has much place to be angry at my abuser.

 

I emphatically disagree. Acquaintance with a person is not necessary to have an emotional reaction to their behavior. Take this thread for example, I am angry to learn of the abuse described. I don't know the victim, the abusers, or even the person telling the story.

 

Point taken. I probed this inside and it was the experiences of someone supposedly helping me but subtly undermining me with their insistence that their idea of action is the correct one. With a parent mistreating their child, having that child see that a big person is on their side is important, even if just someone passing. I suppose it's similar with an adult who has consciously hidden this right to be angry and someone else expressing anger rekindles it.The key for me is that my ally has their own anger at my abuser and doesn't pass it off as something they're doing to help me; it's something for them to settle with my abuser rather than something additional I now have to deal with/placate in order for my ally to respect me. I guess it's obvious by now that I've had experiences like I describe of apparent allies just adding to my burdens and not being honest about their own feelings and motives.I offer this and my previous message entirely as a glimpse into my world and not as advice. Make of it what you will.

[Brandon U]

Have you asked her why she wants to travel around the country for 8 months? Is it feasible financially? Or is it a pipe dream?

[ebrink06]

Thanks everybody. She and I had a great conversation last night. She affirmed that absolutely wants to do the trip. It isn't fanancially feasible at this point, but the plan is to get the finances in order over the next six months so she can do it.

 

I asked her if she thought she could pursue self-knowledge with me and she said she needed to do it on her own. We agreed to have an open relationship- she said she doesn't want to be with anybody else but she understood if I need to be. I said that I appreciated that but when I married her I didn't do it thinking that someday we would be in an open relationship and she would be gone for 8 months. She laughed and agreed. She wants to go, come back stronger, and continue our relationship. I suppose there is a risk that we would find ourselves needing to part ways, but to not take it would be suffocate her and our marriage.

 

I don't have any regrets about commiting to her- I fundamentally love and respect what she stands for. I'm not sure if it's possible for me to know her at the level I think I do if she doesn't know herself, but I think I have a really good idea of who she is. Essetially, she's someone who has above averge emotional and intellectual capacity born into degredation. ("Raised by dogs" in her words). She has had a lot to overcome, and still has more to process, but the fact she is dedicated to doing it means so much. That she is still dedicated to our marriage in the long term, and is sympathetic to my needs for physical and emotional intimacy in the short term, is icing on the cake.

 

As far as the issue of anger goes, she said she had been through an angry phase and it didn't do any good. I think at this point, I want to know more about that... We both started down the path of self-knowledge at the same time a little over two years ago. Prior to that we had been in the common haze of our careers, planning vacations, hangning out, doing projects, etc. That was all fantastic and fun and easy. This project of working on ourselves has definelty been the most challenging and I'm sure will be the most rewarding

[dsayers]

I fundamentally love and respect what she stands for. I'm not sure if it's possible for me to know her at the level I think I do if she doesn't know herself, but I think I have a really good idea of who she is. Essetially, she's someone who has above averge emotional and intellectual capacity born into degredation.

 

This is the type of thing that has me concerned that you're not being honest with yourself about the situation you're in. "What she stands for," is usually words used to describe a connection to somebody that is not principled to make it sound principled. As I read, she stands for distancing herself from somebody that suggests that child abuse is wretched while sticking up for the abusers. Is this what you know of her? What is to love or respect in that?

 

Emotional and intellectual capacity doesn't precede birth. While trauma during gestation can alter it to some degree, it is something that is formed within the first few years of life. Besides, what difference would it make that somebody who has inhaled smoke for a couple decades was born with healthy lungs? It only serves as a frame of reference to accurately measure the extent of the damage.

 

As far as the issue of anger goes, she said she had been through an angry phase and it didn't do any good.

 

Anger is a signal that we need to act. To say, "it didn't do any good," is to either say, "I didn't enjoy it," or "I didn't do it right." If it wasn't done right, then doing it right would be better than abandoning it. If it was uncomfortable, that's an unfortunate characteristic of being angry at people that society tells us we are to accept no matter what. Honesty however, removes a huge burden on the person who was victimized. Being angry about past abuse is simply being honest about the fact that there was abuse and it was wrong.

 

I don't believe that she truly "went through an anger phase" if your anger towards her abusers caused a reaction in her that was to defend them and push you away.

[ebrink06]

Hey dsayers! Sorry I took forever. To clarify what I mean by "what she stands for" is that she likes helping others through honesty and compassion. She spends most of her time doing that. Being really connected to an extended community is a little unfamiliar to me because my main source of support has always been my "foo". She's learned to build supportive relationships with others as a source of security and that's how she does it. Because compassion is her main motivation, she's taken advantage if sometimes. She's starting to understand that when she feels angry she needs to set boundaries with people. She's been waiting on her younger brother to be ready for them to have a conversation with their parents. He's not really doing anything to be ready so she said she's not going to wait much longer. I'm interested to see what comes from the conversation.