Some advice about a situation with an ex

[IdolsandAnchors]

I am a new poster here as you will see by the count after I post this topic, but I have been going through some troubling mental games with myself for about a month now.  Here is the entire situation summarized as short as I can manage to.

 

Background:

 

  My ex of about 3 years who left and moved back home to Mass last July has been contacting me for a while since the breakup.  Our breakup was essentially because we moved in together in Florida after we both seperated from active duty military in the summer of 2012.  We actually weren't techniqually together when I moved to Florida, but ended up getting back together shortly after me getting there.  Our dilemma was that she was not really happy living in Florida because she was so far from her family and friends back home and didn't like the school she was going to.  She had mentioned moving back to Boston to go to an architechture school in the city and we decided to visit her family and the city over Christmas and New Years of 2012.  We spent two weeks up there and I did a lot of soul searching in the time prior and afterwards.  I decided that I did not want to pick up and move 1300 miles away just to make her happy if it wasn't what I wanted to do.  May be selfish, but she was being selfish giving me the ultimatum in my eyes anyway.  We actually decided in January 2013 that I would not be moving with her up there that summer.  We are both in the Air National Guard still until 2015 so she put in for a transfer to a unit up there and I stayed in my current one in Florida.  We decided it would be best if we didn't stay ''together'' and no sexual relationship really the next 5 or so months so it wouldn't complicate the situation more.  The odd thing was that we still slept in the same bed, kissed each other goodbye, showered together etc.  I stuck to my guns though and we never had sex the whole time.  So summer comes fast and I am dealing with a terminally ill grandmother back home and doing some military training an hour and a half away so my mind is occupied on other things.  I was sad when the day came and she was leaving.  We actually saw each other one more time a month later in August because she flew back down to get the her car and a few more things she left.  We that Sunday came for her to leave for good we had breakfast and at the end I went to give her a hug and she kind of recoiled and it seemed didn't really want to hug me for whatever reason. 

 

Fast forward to November:

 

I honestly was pretty content about being single and ready to move on tried dating the next few months and nothing promising, but I wasn't really thinking of her much until this one day...  I got out an old laptop that she had borrowed while we were apart for about 15-16 months in a long distance relationship due to military orders.  I logged in to get Pandora opened for some music while cooking.  I stumbled across a big photo album she had uploaded of probably 150 pictures from the past 5 years or so.  I litterally broke down in tears from all the memories flooding back at one time.  I gave in and called her after no contact for about a month and a half on the excuse to tell her about the pictures and I didn't want to get rid of them because there was so much there from European trips etc.  We had a heart to heart and I admitted I still had some feelings for her.  She denied having feelings for me in that way at all, but when I told her I missed being around her and the companionship we had she didn't disagree and it seemed like she shared the feelings, but said nothing. 

 

Well,  a few days later she calls me and she is crying about how she is miserable and can't stand her family.  How she can't stand to be around them and came to the realization that bad people don't change in 5 years time.  I had told her this would probably happen when she decided to move back home. (A big reason she joined was to get away from her family.)  She was reaching out to me because I was the only person she felt she could talk to about these issues because she knows I know about her past and family etc.  I help her through a lot of the issues as best I can.  I don't hear from her for about 2 weeks and then bam another breakdown call to me in early December.  We continue to talk periodically through December and by the end of the month she decides to seek out help from a therapist.  She meets with him the first time in the last week of December or first week of January this year.  We still chat a bit and then two weeks of nothing.  She calls me up on the 18th of January with another breakdown about her family after she spent a week or two staying with her mom.  I once again offer advice and outside perspective she ends up feeling better.  This is when the huge curveball comes in.  In the middle of the conversation she tells me  "Hey, you should come visit me!"  I was honestly shocked and stunned because I didn't think we would see each other again because the last time in person she had acted sort of cold towards me.  I talked about it with her and decided I would check into coming over spring break in March if our schedules matched up.  They did.  We had a conversation about a week later where I was taken back again because she told me "Not to come up here with ulterior motives, and don't try to get back together with me."  I said, I have no intentions of that for twofold because of the long distance thing and I know she has issues she needs to work out by herself.

 

Continued....

She tells me she has sort of be seeing this guy.  We get in more conversation and she tells me she has slept with him a few times, but that he dissappeared on her around mid December and hadn't heard from him in a month.  So she wasn't sure what the deal was with it.  It was honestly pretty hard to hear she had slept with someone else, but I kept it together and told her my advice.  I told her that if a guy dissappears with no explanation for that long he doesn't really want to date you, but you guys are having sex when you hang out so that is what he is after.  I told her to confront him and ask him his intentions and to be honest.  She told me she likes him.  I asked what you saw in him.  She doesn't really have much of an answer other than "He's really generous."  I said well what are his principles, what does he stand for?  You know what kind of person is he to the core.  She honestly didn't know.  

 

What really started making me ponder this whole trip is her asking me to come visit her and then turning around in 5 or 6 days and trying to lay down rules for the visit as if she thought I had certain motives.  So, basically I gave her this ultimatum:  If you really say you like this guy, I am not going to come because I don't want to complicate or potentially ruin your would be relationship.  The answer she gave me was that she said I meant more to her than this guy and I should get the tickets to come visit her.  We had another conversation two weekends on the 8th.  She told her mom I was coming to visit and that my itinerary was "awesome."  She genuinely seemed happy that I was coming.  The thing is I am an idiot and brought up my feelings again and asked her ultimately why our relationship ended.  She told me because of issues when we were apart in long-distance for 16 months and a few other minor things.  I honestly never had any intentions of getting back together because the long distance thing is something I swore to never do again in my life because it was so hard.  I told her during that conversation I felt that if she didn't harbor any feelings more than ''respect my opinion, life lessons I had taught her, etc bullshit" that I wasn't going to be her pseudo-boyfriend, emotional goalpost for stability because it was not fair to only call when she needed advice just about her.  She said: "I totally respect that and I won't do it anymore."  She also said "I don't know why I don't have the courage to do that for myself."  I told her that you have to realize how valuable you are and know you are better than that.  Conversation ended on a pretty positive note.

 

Today: 

 

I have not heard from her since the last conversation almost two weeks ago.  She has liked a couple facebook posts though...

 

Sidenote:  I am visiting New Hampshire while I am up in Boston because I am seriously considering moving there in a year and half when I can rid myself of the military completely.  So even if it ends up disasterous I have accomplished something good out of it. 

 

I honestly will appreciate even if 1 person reads the entire novel I have typed.

 

 

 

[dsayers]

I said well what are his principles, what does he stand for?  You know what kind of person is he to the core.  She honestly didn't know.  

 

What would her answer be in regards to you?

 

I did read the entire thing, but I don't know what you're saying. I don't know where you're coming from, how you feel, what your motivation is, or what you seek, both in terms of this girl and this thread.

 

From what I am reading, it doesn't sound like anything more than attachment. Possibly worse: habit. Maybe you could tell us more about yourself. Particularly what you'd have to offer a different suitor were to date other people. It really sounds like you're both being unfair with yourselves and each other.

[IdolsandAnchors]

What would her answer be in regards to you?

 

I did read the entire thing, but I don't know what you're saying. I don't know where you're coming from, how you feel, what your motivation is, or what you seek, both in terms of this girl and this thread.

 

From what I am reading, it doesn't sound like anything more than attachment. Possibly worse: habit. Maybe you could tell us more about yourself. Particularly what you'd have to offer a different suitor were to date other people. It really sounds like you're both being unfair with yourselves and each other.

I guess I am curious to know how she really feels man.  I am going off past experiences of when she has said things, but when in person done the opposite.  You may be right about the attachment thing, she is my first long term relationship and the only person I have truly loved thus far.  I don't think you would ask an ex boyfriend to fly 1200 miles to come see you if you were 100% certain of your feelings, but maybe I am a little delusional.

 

I am honestly at the point where most of you guys are.  I am coming from a background of a more leftish-wing ideology from the beginning.  I got into Libertarian ideas in 2011 hearing a speech Ron Paul gave and everything the guy was saying just clicked.  Started following more of his stuff, found Adam Kokesh and Alex Jones on youtube.  Really struggled with the idea of full blown Anarcho-Capitalism for a bit thinking Minarchism was what I believed.  Actually found Stefan's work through Adam's Podcast.  Didn't start delving in consistently until about last Fall.  So I really am interested in living by the principles I believe to be true which is the Libertarian ideas which leads you to the end of no state.

 

Funny thing is I used to get into arguments with her about these things, and was frustrated because she would argue based off emotions 90% of the time.  I would say she was a conversion in the process, but has admitted living in Boston and being around a totally different mindset said she doesn't care that much anymore.  She is just worried about school, not being unhappy because of her family and having fun going out partying etc. 

 

I am 29 and she is 25. Almost a full 4 years age difference if that makes any difference. 

 

What she has told me about the guy she has been seeing that he works in the finance district in the city, makes a lot of money, works a lot and travels a lot.  She honestly told me that they hadn't had a real deep conversation until the end of last month.  She told me that she was excited because he said "I missed you" after the last time they hung out.  I am not saying I am some amazing person, but I live consistent to my principles and always do what I think is right.  I don't really know what else to say in description of myself. 

 

I can honestly say I do love this woman, but know being in a relationship isn't a realistic possibility at this point.  What it boils down to for me I believe is to find out her true feelings and if she really doesn't love me anymore there is no use to stay "friends" when she is confiding in me only when her life is frantic needs someone more level-headed and rational to reason with her.  Her upbringing was that her parents split when she was 12 or so.  Basically raised by her mom for 5 or 6 years because her dad took off and never helped out or anything.  Her mom used to bad mouth men a lot saying that we were dogs and told her and her sister to not get married till 30 etc.  She has abandonment issues from her father leaving as well as not trusting men either.  I can't honestly say if she ever really trusted me, even though I never cheated or gave her reason to think I wasn't faithful. 

 

I am not sure if that clears up anything at all or is still to vague of details. 

 

Key point is I think she still loves me, but is really good at hiding her feelings because that is how she has dealt with them her entire teenage and adult life.  My intentions are to find out if this is true or false and to decide if staying friends is an option or I need to sever the ties, to move on completely.  I never feel like I got any type of closure when she left and it has honestly been looming over my head the entire time.  I feel like talk is cheap when the past has shown me that her words and actions don't always match up when it comes to her feelings.

[dsayers]

Well I'll add a couple more thoughts. Please understand that everything I'm saying is just based on what you're saying. I could be way out in left field.

 

First of all, what is it that you love about her? I'm talking about in the present. You mentioned closure, which is another word for certainty, and I think the inconsistency in her behaviors is a certainty that she doesn't love you or value that you love her. It's not the kind of thing that somebody could hide. And to be blunt, it could very well be that she's non-committal because she gets everything she needs from you without committing. Earlier on, did you find yourself giving towards her at a level that wasn't normal for the level/duration of the relationship?

 

Your initial post didn't use the word love at all.

 

Above all, you know what I didn't see in your posts here? You. You mentioned military, but no talk since about how your changing views interacts with it. Nor did you touch base on how it came to pass that you had joined the military. No real talk about your needs or emotions. Even when addressing your views, it was all labely and not very personal at all. It's as if you find your identity in others, have one that made you feel good once before, and can't let go because you're afraid to face the void.

 

I could be wrong. How much do you value self-knowledge? Have you put any effort into figuring such things out?

[IdolsandAnchors]

I appreciate the feedback really man.  I do.  I guess I feel like the love she had for me was selfish the longer the relationship went on.  She had even admitted to me that issues she had when we were seperated she said were her fault for trying to change my behavior.  I'll give two examples: First was that she had insecurities issues about me watching porn online when we were seperated because she felt like I didn't find her attractive enough.  I told her from the very beginning of the relationship that I did watch it sometimes and she actually was curious and almost excited about it at first.  When there was distance between us she didn't like it and would get upset.  I will admit I started to hide it from her because it was a repeat argument and I thought it was silly because I had never changed my behavior in regards to the beginning when I was upfront about it.  Yes, I should have continued to be honest about it, but it was like running in circles.  The other example was I went to visit some friends for a weekend in El Paso in February 2012.  It was a long drive and when I got there from AZ late at night I called my buddy.  He said they were at some bar so I went to pick them up.  The 3 of them wanted to go to a strip club.  I was hesitant about it because I knew she probably would not like it much.  I decided to go anyway.  I actually waited a week to tell her instead of dropping the news right away.  She was pissed again and we were on bad terms for a bit after that. 

 

I never asked her to change things about herself because I loved her for who she was.  She is very spontaneous and I am more reserved.  She definitely is a more social person who likes to be in big groups.  I tend to like small groups of friends and am not a huge partier.  What I really loved about her was that she was so driven to succeed, intelligent, compassionate (most of the time), we could talk about anything and never had dull moments.  She loved to travel so I got to do a fair bit of that when we both were stationed in Germany.  I honestly think she gives into peer pressure fairly easily because she has the desire to be accepted by people.  I imagine that has some to do with not feeling accepted by her father.

 

I am on the other hand to the point where I know having the beliefs I have come to is going to isolate myself for a vast majority of people.  As you asked about me and my self-knowledge.  I started the process in late 2011 of knowing the military thing was not for me.  Over the past year or so I have come to the ultimate conclusion that if I really believe in this philosophy I in no way could work for the government in any way shape or form.  I am in school right now on my GI bill studying network security and plan on getting my certifications so I have some decent options for jobs in a year and half.  My military contract is up in August of 2015 and I am 100% done.  I honestly don't think you can be true to yourself if you believe in this philosophy of non-aggression and work for the military in any way shape or form.  Even though my job is not contributing to any of the war efforts currently.  I am essentially carrying out the principles I believe in to there ends and that is why my decision is to get out completely.  Just to clarify if you aren' as familiar with the military stuff.  I joined in 2008 long before I had discovered these beliefs.  I signed up for 4 years active duty which ended in August 2012.  I moved to Florida then, but wasn't 100% sure about getting out because of health insurance, some of the "benefits" associated with being in the Air National Guard.  So I enlisted in the Florida Air National Guard for 3 years from August 2012 till August 2015.  I have actually talked with her about what her plans are as far as next year and reenlisting.  She said she plans to get out because she hates the job and peoiple she works with.  She also has said she wants to possibly start experimenting with drugs again, which the military does random testing so it's very risky to try while in.  I don't think her reasons for getting out are coming from the same background as mine. 

 

Honestly man,  I think over the past year especially I have changed and am really trying to live more consistent to these principles of non-aggression and voluntarism.  I am actively in my life making my decisions off these moral principles and will not compromise just to fit in and conform with everything else.  I will give you a short example of how it has already alienated me to a degree.  I don't put much stock in facebook, but I was curious because I just had a birthday on the 31st of January.  I only recieved 3 messages from friends which I have about 300 on my list.  I was going through old posts and checked the past few years.  I had gotten 30-50 messages from 2011-2013 on average on my birthday from people.  I have really been posting links to new's articles, political articles about government corruption, police brutality, and quotes from Libertarian philosphers.  I have posted a few videos from Kokesh and Stefan as well.  This has really been since about June-July I have been more involved in that.  Maybe it's just coincidence, but I feel like a lot of people are like "oh, he is some crazy anti-government conspiracy theorist now."  It's amazing how when you really start to point out the truth the mass majority of people recoil from it.  A lot of my prior military friends (aquintances) I am sure don't like it because they would have to question if what they are doing is moral and just or is evil. 

 

I apologize once again about not being concise.  I am not the best at summarizing these thoughts down to just a few small paragraphs.

[Holo Cene]

I would not visit her. I fill my need for connection by turning that desire inward and letting my own personality digest and nourish me. I do understand that this connection must turn outward at some point and look forward to that day. Meeting people and being social is the mountain that needs to be climbed here. These type of situations may just be the delays from beginning that hard work.

 

There is nothing to gain from visiting her. Just old wounds and the same problems that caused the break up. That being said, there is opportunity in the actual situation as it does highlight some aspects of yourself that could be illuminated by your responses. 

[IdolsandAnchors]

I would not visit her. I fill my need for connection by turning that desire inward and letting my own personality digest and nourish me. I do understand that this connection must turn outward at some point and look forward to that day. Meeting people and being social is the mountain that needs to be climbed here. These type of situations may just be the delays from beginning that hard work.

 

There is nothing to gain from visiting her. Just old wounds and the same problems that caused the break up. That being said, there is opportunity in the actual situation as it does highlight some aspects of yourself that could be illuminated by your responses. 

I have thought about that.  I can honestly say that I don't think I will ever truly accept it and move on without having a face to face discussion with her about it.  I don't know if I quite follow your meaning to the last sentence about aspects of myself being illuminated. 

[dsayers]

Sorry I&A, but I continue to see contradictions. I suspect it comes from a lack of self-knowledge or otherwise not being honest. Most alarming was describing the military as "not for me." I think something along the lines of, "A plague on this planet and its inhabitants, the right arm of psychopaths that try to enslave all of humanity," would be more accurate. I'm glad that's not for you, but that's a rather glancing description you gave.

 

As far as contradictions, you mention facebook and how you won't conform for comfort's sake, but claim to love somebody that does. You mention her (lack of) acceptance from her father, but state it as an uncertainty. I think somebody who recognizes the importance of self-knowledge would either make an effort to be certain or admit that the lack of certainty indicates you're either not as close as you think or have picked the wrong partner.

 

You also said she was compassionate, but I don't see that in anything you've said about her. I know you added the qualifier of "most of the time," but think about that inconsistency and what it could mean. Is she wishy washy? Or does she just lower her standards for you since you demonstrate she can get away with doing so? Or possibly out of retaliation for choosing to slight her over telling three buddies "no"? That's not the behavior of somebody in love.

 

Finally, I just wanted to point out that I'm still not seeing YOU in the thread. How did it come to pass that you chose to join the military? Even before I fully understood they were evil, I viewed (generally speaking of course) as people that went that way as having no direction. No mention of your family or friends in regards to this decision, or the decision to get out, or the decision to chase somebody 1,000 miles who is stiff-arming you, etc.

[IdolsandAnchors]

Sorry I&A, but I continue to see contradictions. I suspect it comes from a lack of self-knowledge or otherwise not being honest. Most alarming was describing the military as "not for me." I think something along the lines of, "A plague on this planet and its inhabitants, the right arm of psychopaths that try to enslave all of humanity," would be more accurate. I'm glad that's not for you, but that's a rather glancing description you gave.

 

As far as contradictions, you mention facebook and how you won't conform for comfort's sake, but claim to love somebody that does. You mention her (lack of) acceptance from her father, but state it as an uncertainty. I think somebody who recognizes the importance of self-knowledge would either make an effort to be certain or admit that the lack of certainty indicates you're either not as close as you think or have picked the wrong partner.

 

You also said she was compassionate, but I don't see that in anything you've said about her. I know you added the qualifier of "most of the time," but think about that inconsistency and what it could mean. Is she wishy washy? Or does she just lower her standards for you since you demonstrate she can get away with doing so? Or possibly out of retaliation for choosing to slight her over telling three buddies "no"? That's not the behavior of somebody in love.

 

Finally, I just wanted to point out that I'm still not seeing YOU in the thread. How did it come to pass that you chose to join the military? Even before I fully understood they were evil, I viewed (generally speaking of course) as people that went that way as having no direction. No mention of your family or friends in regards to this decision, or the decision to get out, or the decision to chase somebody 1,000 miles who is stiff-arming you, et

I am still figuring out this as I learn more about myself.  I would agree with you that I feel the same way about the military is a scourge on humanity.  I honestly joined because I had no direction at the time.  It was a chance to get out of town and totally change my life from what it was, which was going nowhere to be honest.  I didn't view the military is inherently evil, but wasn't happy with the overall direction with the war's in Iraq and Afghanistan etc.  I honestly joined the Air Force under the likelihood that I would not have to deploy and be a part of the war effort directly.  I never had to deploy and am glad I didn't.  I think governments saying it's ok to kill someone as long as it's under the pretense of war and a man in a costume is evil.  Holding a standard for all of society and then making exceptions when it's state sanctioned is the most of abhorrent hyprocrisies I could think of. 

 

I guess in the general sense, caring about other people besides herself as in she always was really concerned in the welfare of animals, mentally challenged, people who were less fortunate.  It was funny when it came to compassion in our relationship because it seemed that it was mostly about her getting her way even at the expense of myself or my feelings.  She is definitely wishy-washy when it comes to making decisions and I am a planner who likes to weigh the pro's and con's, evaluate something and then make my decision.  She litterally would change her mind sometimes as if it was every time the wind would change direction.  I get what you are saying about lowering her standards.  Me putting up with shit that is really unacceptable for someone who has any real amount of self-respect.  I definitely let things slide at times that I didn't think were right. 

 

My family was supportive of the decision of course they did not want me to join the marines or army to be on the frontlines so to speak.  Friends were mostly supportive, but not many knew much about it in general.  I honestly never had the intentions of making it a career when going in.  It was more of at the time get some more life experience, travel a bit, meet new people and then get out to use the school benefits afterwards when I had more awareness about what I wanted to do.  It happened to be I stumbled across these Libertarian ideas while still in and have been following them more ever since.  My decision for getting out now is a philosophical one and not just a self interest one.

 

I honestly can say I feel at this point that I did love her, but what I got in return was love out of convenience.  If it was a benefit for her to be with me good, but the moment things didn't go as exactly planned in her mind she started questioning whether she wanted to stay in our relationship.

[Holo Cene]

I have thought about that.  I can honestly say that I don't think I will ever truly accept it and move on without having a face to face discussion with her about it.  I don't know if I quite follow your meaning to the last sentence about aspects of myself being illuminated. 

 

The emotions and the thoughts that arise from the situation can be insistently calling for attention, which you ignore for whatever reason. These situations bring out these patterns to be clearly seen. To describe it as love and closure are just catch phrases to hide the inner implications from yourself. This is the potential to see things more clearly.