alien Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Hey all I know what 99% of you think about university and state subsidized education in general so I think it's necessary to preface this post by saying that I pay for all of my courses through working a production based job and when I am at school I make sure to always let my profs know when their Marxism is hanging out. Anyway, I've been following libertarianism for a while now and have been watching with interest the emergence of some of these “free states.” Still, there is very little information on them since they are in their infancy so I've decided to do my masters work on some facet of this movement, which means directly working with them. But I'd like to hear some ideas as to where my research should be directed. For obvious reasons none of my profs would prove helpful for this sort of discourse so I came here, which is no doubt the best place. I promise to share my work, which will include direct involvement with one of the organizations spear heading this fascinating trend. Thanks in advance...
dsayers Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I know what 99% of you think about university and state subsidized education in general How? And how does this relate to the question you were posting about? I've been following libertarianism for a while now and have been watching with interest the emergence of some of these “free states.” What are you talking about specifically? Are you talking about New Hampshire? Seasteading? Freedom is in our interpersonal realationships. Even the ones as small as going to get groceries. You share the road with other people, you share the aisles with other people, you pay for the products you want, etc. That anarchy is perceived to be a rarity is a very corrupted narrative. This is a great facet to address. Better still is the way that parents raise their children for subservience to a state, religion, or "authority." On my way home from one of my runs tonight, I saw a cop car lit up because it pulled somebody over likely for having hurt nobody. It was dark out and his lights were very bright, distracting all the other motorists. He was taking up space on a road made for forward motion, which was dangerous for the other motorists. I got incredibly angry because I was thinking about how ridiculously people would look at/think of me if I put lights on top of my car, pulled people over for no reason, and extorted them under threat of kidnapping or even death. It's all so clear to me that I literally cannot comprehend how so many people accept this as if it's good or beneficial in any way. That's the sort of thing I mean about parenting.
weeb Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 You may want to focus it more on property, and the owning of it/protecting of it vs. being farmed on it. Farmer vs. Livestock. Sometimes the concept "state" gets blurred with "government" or "country" making it seem necessary to have an authority structure or legal system to define a territory. Be clear about what makes The term "free state" is an oxymoron. It is difficult to exist on the planet Earth without some entity claiming jurisdiction over you and your land or resources. Guns pone sovereignty whenever they can. In the sense of community, they got something going with these movements; but in terms of freedom or sovereignty, well.... i bet the US navy would have something to say about a "free state" trading products or anything else that is prohibited by US and international law. Remember, they are "a global force for good" as their advertisement says. Hard to claim freedom on a raft surrounded by sharks.
tasmlab Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 In addition to the NH Free State Project there is also the Blue Ridge one in NC just featuring one city: https://www.facebook.com/BlueRidgeLibertyProject?ref=profile In your paper/project, I think it would be neat to include Stef's arguments against working within the political system to achieve liberty. Look for podcasts in the late 700's and anything with "Ron Paul" in the title. Good quote from Ron Paul on the subject: "There are so many other ways for people to make a contribution to society besides politics that it is probably a waste of time for most people to devote time to political activism at all." Ron Paul, 2013, The School Revolution. (emphasis added by me)
Jorell Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 As a matter of principle, I find it difficult to personally reconcile fighting fire with fire (as weeb and tasmlab very succinctly outlined)... but from a more pragmatic perspective, would I be disinclined to relocate to a geographical region where the cancer of government force was being substantially reduced? I think that would require a personal inventory of what would make that move worthwhile... for me, it would have to be unprecedented change to make a move worthwhile; mostly because the institution of government is still the medium of [said] reductions and can never be a source of confidence or security...Still, as a slave I see no shame in hopping the fence to a less brutal slave-master - and doing so would not constitute an act of approval for the institution of slavery, just improving your circumstances where available. In that context, I would admittedly feel a measure of good fortune in knowing that I've at least managed to align myself with the pendulum as it swings in that direction.
Jorell Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 More direct to your question however, I would find it really interesting to look at these programs from a vantage point of the unpredictable events among their perspective efforts.What measures do those pushing these efforts hope to instill to give their results the most lasting viability?What is the political climate like in surrounding communities and is there blow-back to their vision?What does that blow-back really look like in the regions of these programs?How do these organizations plan to measure their results - what analysis will they be using and what means?What do people in these movements disagree about most?What campaign strategies to they employ?How do they network the necessary personnel (legal counsel, reputation management, advertising)?What principles are emphasized (mission statements, etc), and what principles are compromised / tactically sacrificed?What do these groups report as being their biggest obstacles?I feel really inadequate to even offer suggestions on this, since I've only mildly investigated the NH Free State Program - but as an arm-chair quarterback think it would be fascinating to read about the challenges of these programs
alien Posted February 27, 2014 Author Posted February 27, 2014 "There are so many other ways for people to make a contribution to society besides politics that it is probably a waste of time for most people to devote time to political activism at all." Thanks for your post. Ron Paul and Molyneux are excellent at making logical points but I wonder about their effectuality. Actually, I would argue that Paul has made more of an impact than Molyneux by working within the state even though the latter is the more effective speaker. I think there is also something to be said about Hagel here and that is - we live in a particular kind of world, a society where the message "smash the state" resonates with very few unless its done with respect to the various socially accepted constructs that (and we must grant them atl least this) have gained their merit through historical pedigree. I would also argue that we will find that these free state projects will have a profound effect on changing such statist oriented constructs for the better and people in this community and others related to it should get behind them and try to work with them. Nevertheless, logic is logic and Molyneux, Ron Paul and yourself cannot be said to be wrong. Unfortunately, however, we live in a world that is. You may want to focus it more on property, and the owning of it/protecting of it vs. being farmed on it. Farmer vs. Livestock. Sometimes the concept "state" gets blurred with "government" or "country" making it seem necessary to have an authority structure or legal system to define a territory. Be clear about what makes You are absolutly right and I will. Thanks More direct to your question however, I would find it really interesting to look at these programs from a vantage point of the unpredictable events among their perspective efforts.What measures do those pushing these efforts hope to instill to give their results the most lasting viability?What is the political climate like in surrounding communities and is there blow-back to their vision?What does that blow-back really look like in the regions of these programs?How do these organizations plan to measure their results - what analysis will they be using and what means?What do people in these movements disagree about most?What campaign strategies to they employ?How do they network the necessary personnel (legal counsel, reputation management, advertising)?What principles are emphasized (mission statements, etc), and what principles are compromised / tactically sacrificed?What do these groups report as being their biggest obstacles?I feel really inadequate to even offer suggestions on this, since I've only mildly investigated the NH Free State Program - but as an arm-chair quarterback think it would be fascinating to read about the challenges of these programs Those are some excellent fuckin' questions. Let me go get a bottle of wine. I'll get backed to you in a little while.
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