To go or not to go?

[Benjammin]

Hi All,

 

I am having a problem making a decision. A friend from my history is having a second birthday party for his daughter. He did not invite me directly but his wife did through Facebook. Then last week he asked if I was coming or not after basically standing me up with promised help on a kitchen floor tiling project. I am not sure that I want to attend. One of the big reasons is that I know my ex fiancé will be at the party with her new husband and baby. Our relationship ended Labor Day 2012 so you can put that timeline together. I attended the friend's daughter's first birthday party last year and I found it to be an uncomfortable and kind of boring event.

 

The reason that I say this friend is from my history is because we do not spend much time together. In fact each time we hang out in the last couple of years it feels more forced each time. We have less and less in common.

 

This seems like it should be a simple decision. Don't go because it does not give you joy. Then again I can see several thing that I might enjoy about the interaction.

 

Sorry this is so poorly worded. I don't really have anyone to discuss this with so I am looking for some feedback.

 

Thanks,

Ben

[dsayers]

"Being invited" isn't a reason to go. If you take being invited out of the equation, I didn't read a single reason to go.

 

Can you elaborate on where the dilemma is?

[Benjammin]

The dilemma…… Hmm it must be that I feel the need to not hurt my friend feelings by not attending an event for his child. I logically know that his is not a valid reason to go just as being invited is not. Also he is supposed to be helping me the next day with the kitchen floor tiling project. It might make that kind of weird. I also feel that it could be fun. Also this is an opportunity to see if I should continue this friendship. I certainly have my doubts which is sad. It seems like no one in my life has any interest in talking about life issues without quick dismissal or cynicism.

 

I think I also have a personal vanity in going as well. For some reason I still feels the need to show my ex that I am healthy and happy (mentally and physically). Which I guess that statement of vanity alone shows I am not mentally healthy. I should also probably say that this women was my one and only relationship/love. It was a long and rocky road that I need to process more. I have been drafting a post for quite a while on this but I am not sure that this is the appropriate place to dump that information.

 

I will reflect on your question some more so see if I can find a better answer.

[tasmlab]

Sounds like you don't want to go!  I'd politely decline.  

 

If I was worried about appearances or being polite, I'd send a gift via mail which takes but a second on Amazon.

[dsayers]

It sounds to me like your ex alone is reason not to go. You'd be torturing yourself while reinforcing unhealthy motivators.

 

As for your friend, if I understand your opening post, he balked on a commitment to you on a project. Did he address this breach of commitment? If so, was it in advance, in the moment, after the fact? Did he bring it up or did you have to? You mention it now being on for the near future, so I'm assuming it was covered already. I'm just curious if HOW it was covered already transmits the state of the friendship or not.

 

One of the biggest skeletons in my closet is the degree to which friends of mine have been there in my times of need while I wasn't there for them in similar times, such as moving furniture and the like. I am very fortunate that the people most affected by this have accepted my apology as well as my efforts towards self-knowledge so that I might be a better, more reciprocal friend.

[Benjammin]

I called him the night before suspecting that he might not be making it as we had made the plans 2 weeks out. He informed me that instead of coming over to help he had to work. Also that he had already packed up his tile saw for the move to a new place and he did not know where it was. I told him it was no big deal and he offered to reschedule the project to this Sunday. Stating that this would give enough time to locate the misplaced saw.

 

I certainly am the friend that has been there whenever my friend calls. I have a hard time asking for help myself but when I do I am often let down or forgotten.

 

I think you guys are right I will not attend and solve the project other ways if I need to.

 

Thanks for the dialog!

[_LiveFree_]

You know you could also just briefly stop by, say hello, drop off a gift, and then head off to do whatever it is you have planned. This approach hinges on the fact that you'll have a conflicting event or errand that you need to attend to. 

[Benjammin]

In this case I have nothing planned. Its not a conflict of my time problem. Its more of a is this something I really want to do problem.

[sagiquarius]

Hey Ben,

 

Sounds like you resolved to not go.  What is it about this friend that has you feeling ambilvalent about continuing the relationship, or even testing it in this case?  Were you feeling that he may not help you this Sunday if you don't attend the party?

 

How do you feel now that you've resolved not to go?

[Benjammin]

Hi Sagiquarius,

 

The relationship with my friend seems to be a very superficial one especially recently. In the past it mostly revolved around drinking, fishing, assisting him on his projects and car club activity's. Before FDR I thought that this was the way that good relationships worked. In the beginning of our relationship we would spend lots of our free time together this was in the junior/senior years of high school. At one point he found me important enough in his life to make me his best man but I don't know that we have ever had a real deep or serious conversation. 14 years later, within the last year it has been little to no interaction maybe ½ dozen times. With the knowledge that this might be making excuses. He is obviously very busy as we all are with work and in his case he is raising a 2 year old with his wife. I do not initiate contact as much as I should for things to do as I was mostly used to being contacted when he wanted to do something. Calling people is something that I am not very good at, I just feel like I am bothering people a lot of times. I know that his home life as a child was pretty rough. Divorced parents, the ones he lived with were heavy drinkers. Probably lots of neglect and the idea of discussing problem was not allowed. The idea of discussing emotional topics is hard enough for me to work on but trying to engage uninterested others is even harder.

 

I am certainly concerned that if I do not attend the party that he would not feel the need to help me Sunday. Thinking that it might be offensive to him not to go. Historically if I did not want to do something that he wanted me to do he would nag me until I gave in. Sometime this seemed like a good thing other times not so much.

 

Last night I was feeling content in my decision. Today I find myself to be questioning my decision. I did decide to reply to the facebook invite last night saying that I would not attend. I know that is not a real good feeling description. I am still working on being able to put those in to words.

[dsayers]

If the value you would receive from him helping you to do the project he committed to is greater than the expenditure of showing up to a party for an hour with a gift in tow, then you can go even if the person is a total stranger to you. For your own benefit. This wouldn't even be classified as using him since near as I can tell, he made the commitment regardless of your attendance to the party.

 

Just be very skeptical and honest with yourself about whether this guy will help you even if you do attend. He blew you off once before and didn't bother telling you until you addressed it with him.

[sagiquarius]

Ben,

 

A lot of "deep stuff" to most people can be considered "shallow" in the FDR community; that's been my experience at least.  Very satisfiing for some and jarring to others.

 

Dsayers makes a good argument in support of the practical value going may have for you. Ya know, social currency and all.  My experience of the conversation thus far is a feeling that this is less about the practical results (social currency for sunday), but more about your curiosity about your ambivalance.

 

Do you still want this person as your friend?  Do have a feeling that you "shouldn't" be friends with him?  What would happen if you tried to have a deep discussion with him about anything FDRish - or even anything that interests you beyond the superficial stuff you mentioned?  If you didn't have contact with this person for, say, 60 days, would you miss the friendship?

 

Sounds like the relationship is kind of unstable and unfulfilling as it exists.  I can certainly understand how kids can take up a lot of time as well.

 

You could go, just to see how you feel, note it for future reference, and resolve not to accept future invites if you find yourself feeling uncomfortable.

 

Good for you trying to get in touch with yourself!  It's a hard road and takes courage.

[Benjammin]

Well my friend did reach out to me Friday to confirm plans for Sunday. He also apologized again for the missed date. I did talk with him about not going to his daughter's party on Saturday. I told him that is was not that I don't want to attend because of him or his family but that I do not enjoy being in the company of my EX. I asked him how he felt about me not going and he responded that people are going to do what they want to do. I think I am going to try and discuss this further with him tomorrow.

 

It has been an up and down road on whether I should continue the friendship. I have indeed questioned myself on wither it was worth continuing the friendship. I have felt very used in the past but I don't know that it was intentional on his part. I also am very good at allowing myself to be used and not discuss my feelings. At this point if I did not see this friend for 60 days I would not necessarily miss him. I know this as 60 day has passed several times in the last year with no contact or want for contact from me.

 

Thanks for the encouragement and dialog.

[dsayers]

I did talk with him about not going to his daughter's party on Saturday. I told him that is was not that I don't want to attend because of him or his family but that I do not enjoy being in the company of my EX. I asked him how he felt about me not going and he responded that people are going to do what they want to do.

 

How incredibly insensitive. Were you talking to him about people or were you talking to him about you? Has he ever had an ex that he would rather not be in the presence of? And if you asked him to share his feelings after sharing yours, how does making a completely impotent generalization about people answer it?

[sagiquarius]

Ben,

 

So, how'd the weekend go?

 

I gotta tell ya, I felt instantly annoyed by the response from your friend when you tried to reach out to him.  I really hate that stoic "whelp, folks'll do whatever they want to do" type of response.  It means nothing in a personal relationship, absolutely nothing - you might as well have spoken to a wall.  If I were in your position, I'd feel completely dissatisfied with the interaction and wouldn't invest further into the friendship.  Let him reach out to you for something other than the usual stuff.

 

Sorry, not trying to impose my perspective onto you.  I just instantly felt like I was in your place (because this crap has happened to me enough times in my life) when I read that "response."  Feedback and communication are like breathable air to me, in any personal relationship, and when I don't get it (or give it) I will immediately start to feel stifled; along with a level of frustration akin to trying to find that damn light switch on the wall in a pitch black room.  

 

I guess, in his way, he did give you some valuable feedback on how he values you as a friend as well as how much he values honest communication.  No wonder you're feeling like you no longer wish to invest in the relationship.

 

What was your experience of that conversation?  Did you guys have a chance to explore the issue in more depth on Sunday?

[tasmlab]

I digress, but birthday parties for two year olds are wholesale tedious for everybody but the parents.  As a parent, I think you get to throw one gratuitous birthday party for when your first child turns one, but if any other adults besides grandparents are invited to second birthdays, then you should be brandished a sadist.

 

Yours truly,

 

Miss Manners.

[Benjammin]

Dsayers,

I agree with you both that the response was less that lackluster. I probably guarded myself against that response because it exactly met my expectation. I tend to grant lots of leeway to folks as I know how hard it has been for me to start the process of real communication via RTR like methods. I was certainly talking to him about me. He has been with the same gal as long as I have known him so a major ex is not a thing he as dealt with to the best of my knowledge. If I were to hazard a guess I would say that he thought his response was a kind one or he gave it no true thought.

 

Sagiquarius,

On a side note your name is hard for me to type. Thanks for your reaction I can relate to it. As far as the project goes things went pretty well.

My friend was quick to apologize again for missing the first appointment. I let him know that “it was OK” but that I was upset that he seemed to forget about it. I don't believe that this provoked much of a response from him. I have been trying to think of all we talked about since you responded to the post but I cannot say that it went further than just the news. By that I mean that he told me about the party dragging on late in to the night. Also the fact that my EX apparently did not even show up. He shared with me news about her that I would rather not have heard as it was not good for her and there is nothing I can do to help her at this point. I would have to say overall the conversation was mostly steered by the project.

 

Tasmlab,

 

Interesting. I can agree that they might be tedious. I am not sure if you were going for humor but isn't sadist a little bit extreme.

 

All,

 

Sorry but the slow response but I have been busy getting progress on this kitchen project. I have to say that it feels great to be finally be making progress on this. I am ashamed to admit that it started in 08.

[dsayers]

Sorry but the slow response but I have been busy getting progress on this kitchen project. I have to say that it feels great to be finally be making progress on this. I am ashamed to admit that it started in 08.

 

Did your friend honor his commitment in this regard?

 

I was certainly talking to him about me. He has been with the same gal as long as I have known him so a major ex is not a thing he as dealt with to the best of my knowledge. If I were to hazard a guess I would say that he thought his response was a kind one or he gave it no true thought.

 

I just ran into a similar situation last night. My boss is more like a mentor and a friend. He is smart and gentle and is accustomed to being the smartest guy in any conversation he's in. However, he doesn't arrive at conclusions by way of principled means, so my awakening has been challenging to our relationship as it's hard for him to be sympathetic or empathetic and its hard for me to be deprived of it from somebody who seems like should be the spitting image of virtue. Let's call him J.

 

For a week now, I've been suffering from a cold and a really bad tootache (just got back from my extraction appointment). Along the way, I mercifully learned that taking Ibuprofen like a normal person (I've always been reserved when it came to pill popping) seriously helped with the inflammation, the pain, and the overall discomfort.

 

Yesterday was bad because my father has called me at home (I live under his roof) on very short notice asking me to meet him at one of his rental properties to act as witness for a damage assessment walkthrough. He knew I had been suffering and was a day away from relief. He made no effort to ask how I was doing or if my suffering would preclude me from lending a hand, which really bothered me. I felt I had to go to avoid the risk of being kicked out of my home. So I popped one more Ibuprofen since there's no telling how long these appointments can take (total of 600 mg in about an hour's time). While I was there, I walked up a flight of stairs to get the toolbox out of an upstairs unit we had been working on lately. After coming back down with a heavy toolbox in tow to change the locks, I was woozy and dizzy.

 

So later, when I was telling my friend/mentor/boss this story of my experience with emphasis on the lack of empathy I had received from my own father, he started telling me that he had encountered six people that day who were experiencing dizziness, so he wasn't sure as to what the cause might be. I was alienated because he knows I've had a head cold for a week, have been heavy on the Ibuprofen for a few days, and in fact had a triple dose before using stairs and carrying weight. I began to say that the cause in my case wasn't an unknown when he interrupted me. I kept on explaining myself despite his interruption and he literally repeated his effort to interrupt like five times. In the end, all he was interrupting for was to repeat his recount of six other people being dizzy as if it had any bearing on my situation.

 

The rest of the conversation isn't important except to say that in the end, he made it out to be that I was under the weather so I was being ornery. You know, accepting the very thing he had been irrationally rejecting as the start of the communication breakdown. It really bothered me though because I shouldn't have to compete with a friend to be able to communicate with them. And if I'm talking about my experience, complete with talking about how another person had been unempathetic, I don't think the appropriate response is to diminish my experience or recreate the lack of empathy.

 

Once I regain my strength, I'm going to be talking with him about this. Fortunately, this is not par for the course in terms of our relationship, so it will at the very least not lead to any "hard feelings."

[Benjammin]

For the most part he honored his commitment. I say for the most part because we did not specifically outline what his assistance would be aside from to help. In this case he was able to help me lay the tile. Then you need to let it cure for 24 hours. Last night I was cleaning up the mortar and laying down the grout. Which need to cure for another 24 hours. Tonight I will be finishing grouting and cleaning up after last night grouting. But I ramble here.

 

I am sorry to hear about your experience with your father and J. The story about your father saddened me and certainly related to my own experiences with my father as a younger lad. It sucks that J was feeling so distant and un-empathetic when you talked to him. Can I assume that everything is going smoothly for him? Not that this would excuse his behavior but it might explain it.

 

I shudder thinking of getting a tooth extracted. Was the root cracked? Hope you heal up soon!

[dsayers]

Does that mean his assistance was up front only and not returning for follow up steps? I've done a fair amount of home improvement myself. Though the only tiles I've dealt with were self-adhesive vinyl and in a very small room.

 

I'm not sure as to what the root of J's distance was. I do see the interrupting thing from time to time. I'll know more when I talk to him.

 

The tooth was very far back in my mouth. When I chew or swallow, things make contact with the backside of that tooth, but cleaning it was very hard to get at. I have porous teeth and my family tends to have underdeveloped molars in general. As a result, the tooth had just began to deteriorate from the back forward. It got to the point where the nerve was exposed and sometimes when chewing, I'd get this sensation as if I was actually compressing the tooth.

 

It ended up being a blessing in disguise. The appointment I set up was for three weeks out at the time. A couple days later, things were escalating and I told them I couldn't wait. They were able to squeeze me in a few days later. There was a miscommunication and the earlier appointment from their perspective was just to get an idea of what was going on. I was able to negotiate with them to have the extraction done despite it being a strain on their scheduling. And the dentist was able to negotiate with me about about getting another x-ray done. It was good practice

[Benjammin]

Right one time only visit. He knows that there are many follow up steps but made no offer to assist. I also did not request any follow up directly.

 

Happy to hear your dental woe's are worked out!

 

Thanks for the discussion it surely helps.