fridolutin Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Karma Lets look at it in a different manner I am drinking alcohol exaggeratedly and find myself sick the next day. This is a karmic consequence the next day for my actions the day before. My grand parents and parents where heavy drinkers and I have a weak liver, or they where smokers and I have weak lungs. The karmic consequence is in the form of heredity inherited from my ancestors. I live in a country that abused other countries for centuries and I now live in fear of terrorist attacks coming from those countries. It is a social karma. On one side we accept the fact some of our actions can bear some consequences but on the other side we decide it is not the case on a wider range. Why ?
dsayers Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 On one side we accept the fact some of our actions can bear some consequences but on the other side we decide it is not the case on a wider range. Why ? I found your last question to be ironic since calling something "karma" is to mask the consequences of actions. The first two examples you provided are biological effects. The third is an effect of aggression. These are not karma. What is your definition of karma? To me, it seems to be a claim of an immeasurable force or entity that goes around balancing out the good and bad in the world. This would not address the biological effects you speak of since smoking and drinking in excess have no good to them. Why then would a balancing force punish somebody who wasn't decadent to begin with? Fair warning: I am biased against mystical explanations of that which has rational explanations.
fridolutin Posted March 5, 2014 Author Posted March 5, 2014 Fair warning: I am biased against mystical explanations of that which has rational explanations. It seems to me you misunderstand the original karma concept with the recuperation made by religions to make it understandable to the mass. The original explanation is closer to physics, this is why I included biological levels that are not separated from the aggression in the social field, seen as a body, because of the inclusive point of view of oriental philosophy. In that way of seeing microcosm and macrocosm are only two levels of a same reality.
dsayers Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 If that's true, then I apologize. I certainly cannot claim to have grown up propaganda-free. Can you substantiate your explanation? This would be worth learning about if it's true.
Wuzzums Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 My grand parents and parents where heavy drinkers and I have a weak liver, or they where smokers and I have weak lungs. The karmic consequence is in the form of heredity inherited from my ancestors. This is factually incorrect. It only stands if Lamarck's theory of evolution is valid, which it is not. In a darwinian context however the opposite stands, the only way you had inherited a bad liver is if your grandparents hadn't been heavy drinkers at all (cause they also had bad livers and had they started drinking before passing on the genes, they would have reduced their chances of living and reproducing considerably). Regarding the concept of Karma, isn't it constrained to the individual? I.e. my bad karma cannot be passed on to my child, and misfortune unrelated to any action is bad karma from another life I lived or something like that.
LovePrevails Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 What OP's writes is the correct interpretation of what karma means (= cause and effect) in accordance with many interpretations of the Buddhist doctrine Karma literally means "action" and the Buddhist teaching is that cause and effect is the governing force behind the universe. It gets a bit woo when the idea is that the unresolved effects of causes are carried over from one life into the next the idea of "good" and "bad" karma is more of a western interpretation, in fact the idea is just that actions have consequences such as drinking too much leading to health problems watching the effects of actions (empiricism) via meditation or other practices is tipped for mastery of life NB. I am not a Buddhist
aya Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 For me karma is not a mystical force there are things our brains can not yet understand & those that can't or don't want to understand this try to associate these things with Religion of mysticism. ( lets keep our minds open to the simple fact we don't know all the facts ) karma doesn't even justify reification, it just is!an example would be everyone born in China believe in Chi, there is good sky chi, bad sky chi!there is good wok chi & bad wok chi, there is also the chi life energy that flows through the meridian timetable, throughout our bodies & there is no evidence yet that this chi exists but if a nation believes it exists then it's effects become reality.do our Governments exist? there is evidence that patients, through positive thinking & visualization heal faster & live longer. only psychopaths do not believe in karma, karma effects everyone else weather they like it or believe in it in my opinion karma is the invisible glue of society.
fridolutin Posted March 7, 2014 Author Posted March 7, 2014 Hye Thanks to all for your contributions to the subject. The examples I used where meant to explain the multi level action of karma which is, as Love prevails mentions, a question of cause bringing consequence as action bears reaction. Karma yoga The heredity is not only the genetic transmission its also the energy level coming with certain habits, the first seven years of life of a child impressed by the middle he lives in. As we know, the child is not completely formed and during the intra uterine period he is biologically conditioned by the mothers blood and many foetal disorders are induced there. Here we can talk of a cultural karma and it seems it is also, beside metabolism, very significative in the impression of the subconscious mind In the oriental philosophy a child is born from the parents but is not necessarily related to them. They are the pieces of the puzzle that suits his personal Karma. The life of an individual, his actions during the time he lived, produces a signature in his energetic body and after death it will seek for his next incarnation the good combination, the couple that will suit his karma. On a material and biological level we can talk of bio accumulation as it reflects this energetic imprint. All of this process is about energetic field combining by attraction, there is no angels or fairy tale creatures acting as helpers or facilitators. All of the explanations using visible images are meant to give an approximation of the process for those unable of abstraction. Knowing we are the result of our good and bad previous actions is a first step to adapt and prevent any other buildup of negative karma. That is to practice karma yoga. Here also there is much misunderstanding, the good and the bad is not only in the field of humanity it includes life as a global entity and relates to equilibrium between negative and positive energy manifestations, attraction and repulsion.
fridolutin Posted March 8, 2014 Author Posted March 8, 2014 Karmic labyrinth The great majority of people are to much infatuated with the present condition of thing. -the pulling down, and climbing over the dead bodies of their brothers- the cannibalism and savagery of modern industrial and commercial life- to follow any other course. This being so, they will continue to eat and be eaten- kill and be killed- crush down and be crushed down- hate and be hated. And those who deal these things to others- and who take a delight in them- bring themselves under the operation of the law of cause and effect to such an extent that they become enmeshed in the machinery, and often get ground up while expecting to aid in the tearing apart of others. Advanced course in yogi philosophy by Yogi Ramacharaka This enmeshment is an important aspect of karma it relates to imprisonment of will in conditions preventing or rendering changes difficult and sometimes impossible to perform. It has to do with a particular education or conditioning the individual have received during his prime childhood, that is hidden in the subconscious mind out of reach for the conscious one. For oriental philosophy life does not start and finish, as we occidentals believe, at birth and death. It accounts the before and after in a global figure of existence consisting of many lives. The particular culture you are born in is the mesh your entangled in and it is your own creation. Cultural karma is as significative than biological karma, it can make you see the cup half empty or half full and the way you see things is how to get out of bad karma or into it. It is why good and bad are seen as friends while better and worst are enemies. In the extremes misery opposes to richness in a perpetual battle where none will ever win. If you have to go trough Betterland keep your head looking down to avoid getting dazzled it will serve you in Worstland to clearly see where you walk. The advice is to stay in Centerland and be contented.
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