Sebastian Lundh Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hello!I have a question about monopolies: Let's say that all food producers in the world work together, and decide to not sell food to anyone unless they decide to give the producers all their present and future wealth; how would the market solve this? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRobin Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 maybe this helps (Murray Rothbard on Cartels (5:16min long) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 The market corrects by way of competition and consequence. In regards to your scenario, competition is the answer. Let's say that all food producers in the world work together, and decide to not sell food to anyone If this isn't what people want, then each of the colluders has enormous incentive to cross that line. Or anybody else can begin to produce food. The scenario you describe is a fictitious snapshot. It ignores everything that would be unrealistically required in advance and everything that would come after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cab21 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 all the food producers in the world, so from the biggest of corporations to the smallest of hunter gatherer, to the guy with a Lettuce garden attached to the window of his apartment, all colluded... first it won't happen second, it wont happen if it does happen, others can form their own food growing, and food growers could opt out of this weird agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew79 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 You are aware government is a monopoly? And as history has shown, there is not a more dangerous monopoly possible. In a market, the incentives that create monopolies are the same incentives that mean they can never work. But these incentives doesn't exist for government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Lundh Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Here's my problem; if all food producers, or at least all major food producers, decide to work together, and decide to sign contracts that would make it impossible for anyone to leave the cartel, they would have a lot of power. It takes time to produce food, so new competitors can't just enter the market, and food is something that we really need, so the food producers could very well use that power to make people give away all their stuff to them. Yes, I know that government is the ultimate monopoly, but that doesn't change the fact that this might be a problem, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 but that doesn't change the fact that this might be a problem, right? It's not a fact. It's a speculation and one that isn't based on anything realistic as outlined above. Here's my problem; if all food producers, or at least all major food producers, decide to work together, and decide to sign contracts that would make it impossible for anyone to leave the cartel Your initial question was how would the market solve this scenario. Presumably you meant free market, which means free society. In a free society, a contract like you're describing would be unenforceable. You including this element doesn't change the question at all, which has been answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRobin Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Other than that, how are the food producers gonna defend themselves against the hungry masses? I mean, if people are starving you can't really expect an adherence to ethics, so that would imo be another practical point where the idea became impractical for the food producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovePrevails Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 how do you stop people from growing food on their own land? or like this besides, when government was in charge of food production there was famine. Millions of people died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnPozzi Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Consider the Global Resource Bank solution where everyone is a producer and shareholder of Earth's natural resources (food). John. www.grb.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Lundh Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 In a free society, a contract like you're describing would be unenforceable. Why? Other than that, how are the food producers gonna defend themselves against the hungry masses? I mean, if people are starving you can't really expect an adherence to ethics, so that would imo be another practical point where the idea became impractical for the food producers. Well, they wouldn't starve, because they'd give the food producers all their stuff, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Why? A group of food providers claim to band together to gouge their customers under threat of starvation, one crosses the line and sells food to people at what is a higher price than the market would set, but lower than the people conspiring. So the other conspirators take the guy to court, saying he violated their contract. Who would convict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Lundh Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 one crosses the line and sells food to people at what is a higher price than the market would set, but lower than the people conspiring. Can't they just avoid that by merging with each other, so that they get all of the control the same resources? Besides, why would a company do that? In today's world everyone can find out what happens all over the world immediately, so it's not like a company can sell anything and keep it a secret, right? Every company has to realize that selling something outside of the cartel will brake it, right? So the other conspirators take the guy to court, saying he violated their contract. Who would convict? A court? If the court can keep the cartel together, the cartel will be rich, right? And if they will be rich, they can pay the court a lot of money. I acknowledge that I might be wrong, but I just can't see how freedom solves that problem. You might say that we still shouldn't initiate force, and I guess that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew79 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yes, I know that government is the ultimate monopoly, but that doesn't change the fact that this might be a problem, right? As Dsayers wrote, there is no fact, this is just idle speculation.Monopolies and cartels require government.And with regards to food production, the only times anything your scenario has happened were the Great Leap Forward in China, and the Holodomor in Russia. Both, of course, were government projects.The free market removes any danger of this happening by its very nature."What ifs" based on any negative scenario you can come up with are utterly pointless. Especially when reality has shown the exact opposite to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRobin Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well, they wouldn't starve, because they'd give the food producers all their stuff, right? Why would they give all their stuff to the food producers? I mean if tomorrow all the food producers wanted sell their food for 1'000$ I doubt anyone would actually pay. Also, cause you can only pay "all you got" once, and afterwards, what do you do? The whole economy would be totally destroyed as a result of no one having any money left to buy of produce other thigns (which ultimtaley would make the cartle kind of pointless anyway). But either way, simpy paying wouldn't work longterm, so I doubt people would do it. Or what is your argument for why they would pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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