Crimea

[AccuTron]

Lots of countries bordering Russia fear Russia, no mystery there.  We also note how large countries and empires always gobble up neighbors.  (Lithuania used to be huge.)  The USA had Manifest Destiny.  I'm sure I'd be quite upset if I'd been anyone on the receiving end.

 

One geographic reality sticks out, regarding Crimea.  Anyone in charge of Russia, any decade or century, would see the Crimea as essential access to the Black Sea.  I looked at Google Map and the Don River doesn't, so to speak, hold water to Sevastopol for shipping.  Access to Crimea utterly requires the possession of what is now called eastern Ukraine.

 

The Russian bear may have eyes on Baltic countries, but the Crimea is vital to Russia, making a separate category of sorts.  A friend of mine said it would be like the USA not having California.  

 

How does that geographic reality weigh against everything else?

 

[Wuzzums]

Crimea has always been there, so my question would be why does Russia hold interest in it all of a sudden?

[ribuck]

Crimea has always been there, so my question would be why does Russia hold interest in it all of a sudden?

 

Putin thinks that Russia might lose the allegiance of Ukraine as a whole, so he wants to make sure that Russia doesn't lose militarily-important Crimea.

 

It's not correct to say that Russia holds interest in Crimea "all of a sudden". Russia has a long history of interest in Crimea. It was as recently as 1954 that Kruschev transferred Crimea to Ukraine (which was then part of the USSR). After the Soviet Union collapsed and Ukraine became independent, Russia has been continually and intensely interested in Crimea (details).

[Wuzzums]

Either way, nice of Putin to hold back on the invasion after he was done purging the public purse with the Winter Olympics. I don't think Crimea isn't military important, it's commerce important seeing how they're intending to exploit the region surrounding the Black Sea for natural gases. It's just a checkpoint for pipelines.

[Lowe D]

Putin is a Russian patriot.  Crimea has for most of modern history been a Russian province, and it's full of ethnic Russians.  The change of gov't in Kiev is a pretext for doing what Putin and other Russian nationalists had wanted to do anyway.

[Omegahero09]

I personally find the whole thing ironic. If the United States and the EU are truly democratic governments as they tell us in school- then why are they losing their minds over a majority wishing to annex?The whole thing is still kind of goofy, them picking which slave driver they want to rule over them, but I still think it's funny.

[AccuTron]

I personally find the whole thing ironic. If the United States and the EU are truly democratic governments as they tell us in school- then why are they losing their minds over a majority wishing to annex?The whole thing is still kind of goofy, them picking which slave driver they want to rule over them, but I still think it's funny.

It's ironic that the USA and most EU countries obtained their present borders more or less by the same mechanisms as Putin in Crimea.

The vote was probably rigged.  It may have played out a win anyway if legit, just at lower numbers...we'll never know.

It's easy to see why Baltic nations might get nervous; I think one or two of them have Russian majority or large minority.  That's probably where the "losing their minds" much comes from.

And hooboy, have you seen some publicity photos of Kerry, or a US/EU commission facing the Russians?  -- the most hangdog faces I've ever seen.  I mean, really people, if you know already that you're losing, bring a yo-yo or something just to get a better look on your face.

[Omegahero09]

Lol I haven't seen any pictures no, just scanning the suite of libertarian/conservative news sites every morning and every night to make sure I don't have to buy MRE's in a hurry if you know what I mean.It's been hard for me to believe that the russians were really pressuring it, I'd have to dig really deep into older articles to find out how exactly everything took place. But all the photographs I've seen have been of cheering citizens, lots of them- wearing russian colors and saluting and what not. I really do think they did want to annex.Either way I think we can all agree though, no war if possible.Putin plz

[J-William]

Lol I haven't seen any pictures no, just scanning the suite of libertarian/conservative news sites every morning and every night to make sure I don't have to buy MRE's in a hurry if you know what I mean.It's been hard for me to believe that the russians were really pressuring it, I'd have to dig really deep into older articles to find out how exactly everything took place. But all the photographs I've seen have been of cheering citizens, lots of them- wearing russian colors and saluting and what not. I really do think they did want to annex.Either way I think we can all agree though, no war if possible.Putin plz

I think it's alot like the US with dems and repubs, except in Ukraine it's pro-russian and pro-ukranian... so there's a large faction that will cheer Russia.

 

 

I think there are also factions in favor of democracy, those opposed to the former leader, those opposed to the current leader, those opposed to foreign governments fighting over who should lead the country.... and a small contingent of people who would just rather all these statists would go away!

[AccuTron]

I would be curious to see a Venn diagram including the factions referenced above, plus those who do/don't believe in human global warming.  I'd bet that no Russian falls for it, since the origins of the fraud are in the USA and UK.  

 

(Get details here.  Start partway down at the orange flower, and it will be a long read, but in an easy format.  

Global Warming Pause never true? - Current Events - Freedomain Radio Message Board )

 

The Western Ukrainians are more likely to have been soaked in the liberal media where global warming (and it's power The Truth about Global Warming Alarmism - Current Events - Freedomain Radio Message Board ) are sacred dogma.  

 

The WSJ recently reported that in a meeting with State Dept. staff, Kerry specifically instructed that global warming a highest priority.  I think he said it was the number one priority.  Which I translate as, pressure tactics to favor Democratic Party goals, manipulating liberal factions in any other country.  And he has the audacity to call Russia corrupt.  Which it is, but Kerry has no room to point fingers.

[Omegahero09]

Good point.Russia has always been pretty effed too. From one fascist "leader" to another...

The WSJ recently reported that in a meeting with State Dept. staff, Kerry specifically instructed that global warming a highest priority.  I think he said it was the number one priority.  Which I translate as, pressure tactics to favor Democratic Party goals, manipulating liberal factions in any other country.  And he has the audacity to call Russia corrupt.  Which it is, but Kerry has no room to point fingers.

 

Of course, it's the classic government trick of inventing a crisis to save it's people from.The scientists are paid via subsidies to 'prove' global warming, to publish aritcles and research which shows it's growing etc etc. Don't tell me that when your college gets a grant for 2 million- just for global warming research alone, that that 2 mil just goes to equipment and stuff. It doesn't, it staffs the college.It's the worst.IMO it's the same with cigarettes too- nearly all the research you find about tobacco comes from government funded studies, or from straight up federal organizations. And gee, tobacco is heavily restricted from every angle- from advertising to the contents of the cigarrettes- including all the harmful drugs required by law to be made into their product.It's all tied in with the cancer industry and it's ties to the fed I think.