Thoughts on Forced Graditude

[peachbrain]

I just got in a fight with my boyfriend and wanted to write out my thoughts and perhaps ask some of y'all for your input. So here goes:

 

My boyfriend has a lot more money than me and thus pays for a lot of the "extra" things we do together, such as dinners, concert tickets, and even vacations. We just got in a fight about how he thinks I don't express enough gratitude for the things he does for me, which I suppose is true. I know that he's very generous with me and that I should be grateful, but I guess I have a hard time expressing it. Either that, or perhaps I really am spoiled and ungrateful :-(

 

Anyway, I feel like the root of the problem, of course, goes back to my childhood. My dad and I had a lot of conflicts surrounding my supposed lack of gratitude. Even though I thought I felt grateful for the presents my relatives would send me for my birthday, Christmas, etc., I'd always procrastinate on thank-you notes, and my dad would nag and nag me about it. Once when I was 16, I guess I'd waited way too long to write the notes, and he came over to my mom's house (they're divorced, no surprise there) in a rage and took "his" car (he made sure I knew that the car I got to drive around was really HIS car that he was generously letting me borrow) away from me, probably for at least a week or two. Taking away my his car was his go-to punishment for various offenses such as ingratitude, disrespect, and the couple of times I got caught drinking. It's probably a slight exaggeration, but I feel like I must have been without the car my dad had ostensibly bought for me to use about half of my junior year. Although my mom usually went along with my dad's various punishments as to appear like a united parenting team, the thank-you note situation was when she'd finally had enough and started to let me use my grandpa's 20-year-old and probably unsafe to drive beater whenever my dad took away the other car.

 

The conflicts with my dad continued into about my sophomore year of college, but this time it was about me being ungrateful for my dad paying for my college as well as my being disrespectful. I don't remember the exact details, but I know he threatened to not start/stop paying for college several times in between the application process and sophomore year. I'd also planned to bring the aforementioned car to college sophomore year, but we got into a fight a couple weeks before I planned to leave, and so he decided not to let me take it, even though having a car at school was something I'd been looking forward to for a long time. The actual catalyst for the fight was something small, but to him it was the straw that broke the camel's back, since apparently I'd been disrespectful and ungrateful all summer. After that fight, which culminated in me running out of the house in a rainstorm and sitting in the park across from our house sobbing, I actually told him I didn't want to talk to him again unless it was in a therapists office. He told me that he'd already spent enough on therapists with my mom and I (their marriage counseling 18 years prior and the one visit we'd made to a family therapist about a couple years prior to this). So we didn't talk for the entire semester. My mom ended up buying me a car to take to college, since she again thought what my dad did was unfair. He continued to pay for school that semester, since I think he had already done so when the fight happened, but I was very depressed the entire time and my grades reflected it. We reconciled during winter break but without really discussing in-depth what had happened. It was more like, "Ok well it's Christmas and I should start talking to my daughter again," and, "Ok I guess I'll forgive my dad because I love him and it's Christmas." After that he pretty much mellowed out didn't threaten to stop paying for school again and I suppose our relationship seemed to improve, although it's not like we're close or anything now.

 

I'm now 26 and have yet to really discuss my feelings about my treatment as a teenager with my dad, even though I know I should. I guess these are my questions:

 

1) I don't know how I should feel about the car being taken away thing. I know Stef says children's property rights should be respected and I pretty much agree, but how about for a expensive and dangerous thing like a car? If parents get a 16-year old a car, should it just then be his property, to do with as he pleases? I know that the way my dad handled the situation can't be correct, but I guess I'm looking for positive example of what a peaceful-parent / teenage driver situation would look like.

 

2) Does it seem like a stretch to think that my dad's constantly forcing me to be grateful as a teenager would make me not as able to spontaneously express gratitude today? And if so, what do I do about it? I'm even starting to resent that my boyfriend seems to be putting me in the exact same situation that I was as a teenager, but I don't want to just say, "Well I'm not grateful because of my childhood and therefore you just have to deal with it!" because I know it must suck for him to feel unappreciated. I know the simple solution would be just to force myself to do it, but I don't want it to feel forced, I just want to be a somewhat normal person. :-/

[Tyler Durden]

I'm only hearing your side of the story so I can't be a hundred percent sure on this, but to me, they both sound kinda lame.

 

I mean, punishing your child for ungratitude? Come on. And the taking away the car as a form of punishment. You either give it or you don't give it. There's nothing wrong with not giving your child a car, but to give her one and then take it away again, and repeat this multiple times, it just seems really immature. And the same goes for college tuition, only more so. He wanted you to be really grateful, so apparently college is really important, but then he threatens to stop paying for it. He makes it all about him and not at all about college.

 

As for your boyfriend. Reaaaaally lame as well. I have been in a similar position in a previous relationship. I earned significantly more than my girlfriend (even though her job was actually more noble than mine) and so I payed for most of the expenses. It was only natural to me, because I wanted to be with her and this was just the reality of the situation, if she had earned more she would have done the same for me. And she was actually very grateful but I didn't want that at all, I wanted us to be equal and I didn't want her to feel indebted to me. To me it was more like, we're together now so this is not only my money, it's our money.

 

If he is paying for stuff that the two of you are doing together and you're both having a good time then there shouldn't be any issue. If there is, I would consider the possibility that he is insecure much more likely than the possibility that you are ungrateful. I mean, who wants a grateful girlfriend, seriously. "Oh you should be so grateful to be with me because I pay for everything. Why aren't you more grateful?!"

 

But like I said, I can't be a hundred percent sure. Maybe you're constantly planning expensive stuff and you just assume that he'll pay for all of it, and maybe you complain about everything when it doesn't live up to your standards, and maybe you value a guy's love for you on the basis of how much money he spends on you. I don't know, could be. But if you were that kinda girl, you'd probably be asking for advice on a different forum.

[Prairie]

I don't see anyone as being obligated to have gratidue. Even if they were, if it's not there it's not there. Gratitude like a lot of human expression can only come spontaneously. To force it is to merely put on an act of it for the sake of an audience of one.

 

If someone wants to force an act of gratitude, they have already thrown away having a real relationship with the person and instead merely want a marionette that triggers the right pleasant responses in them, and doesn't trigger unpleasant things. If someone gets angry for someone not having gratitude, they've got unworked personal stuff. Until they show some humility in asking for help, it's just going to be destructive.

[Kevin Beal]

Speaking purely philosophically:

 

In order to account for any effect (like gratitude) there must be some causal description. Anything can't cause anything. There must be something specifically about a cause that produces an effect. For example, if I work really hard at something, achieve a goal I set for myself, the effect is pride. It would make no sense if I felt instead shame. Or if I did, that would be of some real concern.

 

What it would mean to force an effect is to have at least some reference to the specific causes that produce that effect, and if that process doesn't involve the relevant specific causes whatsoever, then to "force it" means absolutely nothing. It would be like trying to lift a boulder without doing anything to push or pull it upward.

 

If a person tells you to lift a boulder without pushing or pulling it upward, then they've put you in an impossible situation and your success or failure is not a reflection on you.

 

Sorry about your dad

 

To answer your specific questions:

 

1. I don't know what the answer is, but if I were the parent, there would have to be some understanding that my child and I agreed on, and something that my child could reasonably agree to and have a good handle on. I would probably ask them work to earn it if it were me, but if I got it for them prior to having any kind of reasonable implicit contract, then I couldn't justify that they hold their end up of a contract we never negotiated. It's another impossible situation.

 

2. I don't think forcing yourself is going to do anything as I explained above. At the very least, you could tell him what you said there about wanting him to feel appreciated and knowing that it must suck for him, but also that you don't feel gratitude as readily as you might without your past. Ideally, you two would be helping each other to work through just these kinds of issues, by being vulnerable with each other and being honest about having both parts, your conflicts and all. By being willing to be wrong despite the conviction that you aren't and exploring that conflict with your boyfriend.

 

But also, what do I know? I don't know you or your boyfriend, and I'm certainly not any kind of expert on dating or psychology. These are just my thoughts reading your post. Hopefully they are of at least some help.

 

Good luck!

[dsayers]

I don't want to just say, "Well I'm not grateful because of my childhood and therefore you just have to deal with it!"

 

Quick clarification: Self-knowledge isn't a blank check, it is the beginning of responsibility.

 

I wonder, how did you father model gratitude for you as a child? Is his behavior consistent with his expectations of what yours should be?

 

As for your boyfriend, what does "you don't express enough gratitude" mean? Did he mention it as a nurturing attempt to make you aware of an empathetic blind spot he perceives in you? Or was he trying to punish you for not meeting his expectations? If so, what specifically was he looking for that isn't being provided? Because without feedback as to what he would like to see, to simply call out the deficiency would be cruel.

 

You mentioned a wealth disparity; Was this his reason for being generous?

[Lians]

You're in luck because there's no such thing as forced gratitude. Rape isn't forced lovemaking, and involuntary gratitude is nothing more than obedience under threat. Your father didn't want your gratitude, he wanted you to obey him. Does your boyfriend know about your history with your father? If so, he'd be wise to avoid repeating your father's patterns of behaviour.

[Wuzzums]

Gifts require nothing in return, otherwise they wouldn't be called gifts. If you receive something and it comes with an obligation then you have to respect said obligation, it's just a transaction like any other. BUT if the obligation comes after the fact and you weren't aware of it at the time when you accepted the "thing" then I think you have no obligation to respect it. When's the last time someone charged you for free samples? You know what they call it when someone does charge you for something you didn't know you bought? Hustling.

 

Your boyfriend needs to be clear about what "enough gratitude" means and if he's so upset about it then he needs to stop being so generous until you two are on equal footing. If he keeps doing these favors for you, you'll never catch up and he'll forever have the "enough gratitude" trump card over you.

[Prairie]

Gifts require nothing in return, otherwise they wouldn't be called gifts. If you receive something and it comes with an obligation then you have to respect said obligation, it's just a transaction like any other.

I can imagine a normal response. "Sure, but come on, when you give a gift you probably would be angry if the person didn't give some thanks, etc." Yes, and that's because to the extent you expect something, you aren't giving, you have something going on that you haven't worked out and are foisting on someone else and damaging the relationship with. It really is possible to perceive the giving separately from your own unresolved stuff and not poison your relationship with it. You can use the instances where it comes up for self-reflection and to grow, and include the other person in this process. So instead of it reducing your relationship, it can give you both an opportunity to add depth to the relationship.

[cab21]

what did your father say before letting you use the car?

did he say he was giving you the car and registered it's ownership papers in your name, or who was the registered car owner?

 

why were you not writing thank you notes?

why were you drinking?

 

i would say forced thank you notes are wrong, and giving a car with the expectation of a forced thank you note as well

your father could have had you earn your car, write a letter in trade for the car, or other system of trade where there was a negotiation.

 

are you expecting things be paid for without you trading for them?

forced gratitude may have something there, although its not gratitude if forced