Joshtown Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or experience with changing beliefs well into a marriage. In my case, I've been married for a number of years and I basically did a complete 180 on who I was when I got married. I was raised Catholic, was Catholic when I was married and was a Catholic until about 2 years ago when I became an atheist. Add that to the self-knowledge I've gained in the last couple years with the help of FDR, and I'm a completely different person now. Needless to say, it hasn't been good for my marriage. Has anyone had similar experiences in this area? I don't know if I'm looking for advice or for someone with a common experience but I wanted to see what people have to say. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm glad to hear you were able to break free of the propaganda of your childhood and that you found the important of self-knowledge Do you and your spouse have children? The only advice I have is more of a PSA for others. Namely that this is one of the many dangers of ascribing any importance to beliefs. For example, if God exists and living virtuously will get you into a paradise in the afterlife, great! Without proof, it can be very irresponsible to make life and death decisions on such a basis. Having been raised and anecdotally convinced myself of Christianity once upon a time, it would've been very key for somebody at that time to impress upon me the importance of accepting fallibility. Have you had an empathetic discussion with your spouse? Obviously you can understand where they're coming from. I think the main problem is that true believers view non-believers as having been tempted away by Satan, prophesied about, etc. I remember once, my father was exceptionally physically brutal to me leading me to stay away from him awhile. When I finally, erroneously let him back into my life, he had the audacity to refer to me as the prodigal son. As if my distance was just something that had to happen and wasn't the result of his intense physical assault. Talk about insult to injury! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 How was your marriage before you became an atheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songbirdo Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 It sounds like it's just more than the removal from religion, but your values as a whole that changed. These changes were progressive and building on eachother as you went, right? You didn't just wake up one day with a new person inside. She must have noticed the differences as they were occurring. My question is, why didn't she choose to come on this journey with you? Did she offer any feedback on the ideas you were discovering during their appearance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshtown Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Thank you to the three of you for responding. I'll try to provide some more helpful information. My question is, why didn't she choose to come on this journey with you? Did she offer any feedback on the ideas you were discovering during their appearance? Religion was always something I kept for myself, probably for a number of reasons. So when I started down the journey to atheism, yes I talked about it with her at times, but I kept a lot hidden from her. I would bring up certain questions to try and gauge where she was at with her beliefs, but while she was questioning our specific religion, I was questioning the very existence of god. In terms of anarchism or voluntaryism, that has been a very gradual process as well. Her and I have always been on opposite sides of the political spectrum, even when I was a statist. She's never been interested in discussing politics so we didn't discuss much about politics. So we didn't go down that journey together because she was not interested in examining those beliefs in herself. We were married young and as I said, we were both religious at the time. When I think about our relationship then, we really did not have too many things in common. It seemed like since we were both religious, and both were "fun" and "nice" people, we thought we'd be okay. And I think that if I never discovered philosophy we'd probably be okay. But since I've taken away our one true common interest of religion, that has really shined a light on how vacuous our relationship truly is. That is how she sees things from her perspective: that we didn't have much in common to begin with and now I've taken away what we did have in common its my fault for the problems in our marriage. The discussions we have now about anything real are few and far between. I would not say that the discussions are empathetic by any means. I certainly try my best to be empathetic but when the other person has no interest in self-knowledge its simply impossible. I don't think I answered it above, but no, thankfully we don't have any children. And I am so glad about that. That would make things so much more difficult than they already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fleming Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Sorry to say, but the answer seems obvious then. Not to say that separation is easy, it never is, but you've got to look at the long term and not just what is easiest in the short term. Is there any way you can see a long term future? You've already said you are glad you don't have kids, do you want to have kids at all? Because it sounds like in your current situation, if you do, that you already realise it's not a good idea to have them with this woman. Like I said, my outside view, given the information provided, seems obvious. Chalk it up to a youthful lack of experience. Some short term pain for the both of you may well lead to future happiness for at least one of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songbirdo Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 In my everyday life I've been attempting to apply a portion of the "blame" on the opposite side of where it more commonly lies in most situations: Cat tears up the toilet paper in the bathroom. Most get mad at the cat for doing such a thing. But it's a cat, it's just being a cat. It doesn't understand it's not beneficial to you by tearing up the toilet paper; it was just having fun. Sure it's frustrating to you that an entire roll is now wasted, but who left the bathroom door open and allowed the situation to happen? Babies and children similar thing, at least to my current understanding (not a parent), except their ability to learn is substantially greater than a cat's. They're going to do what they're going to do because they learned it from you. Getting angry at them for a gap in their knowledge or when they imitate a not-so-flattering trait of yours is not their fault. They're information sponges and you're the source of the water. Squeeze the sponge and your water comes back out. When it comes to adults, they make their choices and you deal with their choices. And so: So we didn't go down that journey together because she was not interested in examining those beliefs in herself. That is how she sees things from her perspective: that we didn't have much in common to begin with and now I've taken away what we did have in common its my fault for the problems in our marriage. She wanted you to be stagnant, unchanging, and never to improve yourself in these regards. She made the choice to remain in said-stagnant state while you made the choice to change instead. They are both fine and OK decisions in my opinion. To change or not to change, that's entirely up to the individual. But you may blame yourself wholly, too: And I think that if I never discovered philosophy we'd probably be okay. But since I've taken away our one true common interest of religion When religious, you decided to get married. In that process you vowed to become a unit, two parts of the same person. You vowed make decisions together. But now that it's starting to fall apart it's all your fault? I don't buy that. I don't think you should have to bear the brunt of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshtown Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Yeah I have to check myself when I blame myself fully for what has happened thus far. I don't take full blame for everything but I do recognize that my actions in seeking information about atheism, philosophy and self-knowledge have led us to this point. It certainly is not the only factor but it is the main reason. We've had enough conversations at this point that I understand where things stand with us for the most part. I am always reminding myself to focus on my long term happiness over this short term pain. Its very difficult for me not to feel guilty however for the state of our relationship. I don't know if I should feel guilty at all but I can't seem to overcome that feeling that I'm the one most responsible for what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 How old are you Joshtown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasmlab Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Sounds like you are done with the relationship. People who are bonkers in love with each other tend to start with that fact vs. the calculated dissection you've performed. Describing the relationship as 'vacuous' is pretty convincing. Just as an anecdote, although my wife identifies as atheist, libertarian and peaceful parenter, she doesn't like to listen to philosophy podcasts as a hobby. It is possible to love somebody without every belief being exactingly perfect, but what you describe, the 'loveless' part hits me harder than the misaligned beliefs. (Just my very subjective opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshtown Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Im not done with the relationship at all. There have been a few times Ive thought it was over, but we have been able to keep things going. We've recently had a very productive talk and I'm very happy with where things are and where things are headed. I certainly don't believe that every issue has been solved, but we are in a much better place right now. Our relationship will always be a work in progress but as long as we maintain openness and honesty going forward, then we can be happy. I appreciate all the thoughts and comments regarding this issue. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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