Emotional Abuse: Nagging

[Three]

My goodness, what a day. Today marked a milestone in my progress. Today I was assertive. I stood up for myself. And it feels good. I might not have done everything ideally, there are a few moments during this conflict that I got stumped and a few things I wish I would have said. But, I'm okay with that because I set boundaries. I wanted to share this experience here to process my thoughts and in the hopes that it might be helpful to others. Nagging to me is undoubtedly emotional abuse. It is just another strategy to control, bully,humiliate, belittle and brainwash another human being. And like all emotional abuse, it can be very difficult to spot. The reason for this has to do with one of the main goals of emotional abuse, which is to get the victim to question her instincts and to attack herself. In order to do this, the abuse must be camouflaged, it must be presented as a virtue. Have you ever expressed your hurt to someone who has just put you down in front of others only to be told that "there's no reason to be upset and that it was only a joke." Have you ever expressed to someone that you don't like it when somebody does something only to be told that what they did was for you! Perhaps, they might have followed such protestations by putting you on the defenses with something akin to, "What would YOU have done to make the situation differently?"  Even if you went through the horrible experience of something more easy to identify as abusive, like being hit or yelled at, the worst thing about these experiences is not the actual hitting or screaming. The worst part about these experiences is the emotional abuse that shortly follows, which is to be told that it was for your own good!This is what happened to me at work today. This guy chose to nag me and being someone who has a history of being nagged at, this really made me mad. While I feel some sympathy for the guy, one of the first things he told me about himself was that his "mom nags, but means well", that sympathy evaporated once he started to act out this machiavellian emotional bullshit onto me. What's really changed for me is that recently is that I've become a lot better at trusting my instincts and to have the courage to be able to say to myself, "I'm not fucking insane, damnit" And from my experience, your instincts are sometimes the best way to identify and counter emotional abuse. Before you can untangle the manipulative knots that are tightening around your self esteem with intellect, there tends to be a gut feeling that something is wrong. If you're really sensitive to this kind of stuff like me, then you will probably get really mad like me. It can be kind of overwhelming, but don't fight it. That is after all what you've been trained to do if you've been abused in this way. Rather, welcome it. embrace it. Fear not what others will think if your eyes gets glassy, your voice trembles, or if your cheeks flush from the intense feeling. This might look funny to others, but so do scabs and like scabs it is there to help heal you. I know that when somebody asks me to do a number of things, maybe more than once, who truly has my best interest at heart I feel it. I feel the compassion and concern. I might get a little annoyed, but it's totally outweighed by the feeling of appreciation. Similarly, when somebody makes a good joke,  I'll laugh. I have a good sense of humor. So, when all of a sudden I feel the exact opposite of what the other person claimed to have intended, it's more quite likely that they in fact doing something cruel. Other than your gut, another way to tell that someone is nagging is that, once you do all the things the person asks, it's never good enough. There's always an escalation in the complaints.As I was wiping down some equipment, this guy jumped in to tell me, which would make his forth or fifth correction of the day, that what I was doing made no sense. "Hey, man. You're nagging. I don't like that." I replied. "Man, I wasn't nagging I was giving you the facts", he retorted. Notice here is where is tries to portray his abuse as, "for my own good." He was only "showing me how to do things correctly so the manager doesn't get on to him"Due do my history, I would get stumped from time to time, but I was determined to stand my ground. Even if I had to fight dirty, so I decided to hit him where I knew it hurt."Even if you're right, I don't like that. You don't like it when your mom nags you do you? " Harsh, but I think it was a pretty reasonable thing to ask. I'm tired of letting dirty fighters kick me in the nuts all the time. After this he went on about lecturing about how many things I had done wrong during the day, how such and such has to be done correctly. It's all about the job ect ect. In the past, I would get in the the trap of debating this crap. Sometimes, as this guy was, sophisticated abusive debaters will actually bring up things that are true. Then I would be on the denfensive saying, "but I am doing a good job!"Instead, I simply said, "you're being very rude and insulting.""Look, I don't care what you like, I'm going to tell you how to do this anyway. It's a job. It doesn't matter and you have to do it right"OH, the hypocrisy, the think about nagging, what makes it so infuriating is that it's so hypocritical. This was coming from a guy who basically sat on his ass all day, while I tried to keep myself busy.It was at this point, I lost all interest. Oh, so it's not okay  for the manager to bitch at him, but it's okay bitch at me. You're just "giving facts?" Well, so was I. The fact was that he was being a jerk. He "doesn't care", what I like, so why should I care what he likes. There were so many mind fucks in there he might as well have just said "square circles - circle squares equal 5 because 2+2 really is 4 when the color of jealousy is red...personified. ". I just said "it's whatever, man." He mocked me, "it's whatever, man."I left him with the last word(I know this is might be false bitchiness, and am open to any better ways of handling these situations)"Well, I'm going to ask the manager what I can do around the store, since there's nothing to do over here. "Again, it isn't the nagging that's as destructive as the attempt to convince you that the nagging was justified and your fault. Anyway, I wanted to share my thoughts as well as vent and process this. Hope some of it's helpful. Take care.

[Prairie]

Some thoughts/ideas that came to mind while reading your post:

Nagging to me is undoubtedly emotional abuse. It is just another strategy to control, bully,humiliate, belittle and brainwash another human being.

In my experience, the abuse is often only hinted at or done a few times, where the victim learns to give into the nagging rather than get abused again. After a long time of this, the victim might wonder whether the nagging is really abuse, because they never see the major abuse, subconsciously always anticipating it and avoiding it by giving into the more minor abuse.

Have you ever expressed your hurt to someone who has just put you down in front of others only to be told that "there's no reason to be upset and that it was only a joke." Have you ever expressed to someone that you don't like it when somebody does something only to be told that what they did was for you! Perhaps, they might have followed such protestations by putting you on the defenses with something akin to, "What would YOU have done to make the situation differently?"

A big thing all these evasions rely on is the warped idea that having someone empathize with your experience is detrimental to them in some way. So what if they only meant it as a joke? If you took it as otherwise, then you need to talk about the experience and be taken seriously. Same if it was supposedly for your sake. "Well, I do not like it and I need to tell you how it felt to be on the receiving end." Someone who cares WILL want to hear how you received it. That's the other thing these rely on: you coming back for more rather than cutting them out of your life.

Even if you went through the horrible experience of something more easy to identify as abusive, like being hit or yelled at, the worst thing about these experiences is not the actual hitting or screaming. The worst part about these experiences is the emotional abuse that shortly follows, which is to be told that it was for your own good!

This is one benefit I see of physical abuse over emotional abuse: it's much easier for the victim to recognize is and trust their perception of it. I think that all abuse is emotional at its core, and some also comes with a non-essential physical component (though it means that the abuse can become fatal, which adds the emotional component of mortal threat). If a tree fell and broke your leg, it would probably not be experienced as abuse. If someone didn't see you and ran into you and broke your leg, it also probably wouldn't be experienced as abuse. But if they did so seeming intentionally, and then didn't acknowledge it or let you talk about how the experience was, then it denies your existence and value on many levels and is abuse.

As I was wiping down some equipment, this guy jumped in to tell me, which would make his forth or fifth correction of the day, that what I was doing made no sense."Hey, man. You're nagging. I don't like that." I replied."Man, I wasn't nagging I was giving you the facts", he retorted.

I've learned to not discuss objective reality with such people, because it'll never go anywhere. I stick to statements about myself and how things are affecting me. That gives someone who cares all they need to respect me. If they try to argue with me about those internal things, it's pretty easy to just laugh and ask if they are claiming to be a mind-reader. If they don't respect these statements about myself, then the Socratic method is a nice fallback that allows one to disappear and become a mirror.Reflect back what they say, then let them say more, then reflect that back, etc. If they said I did something wrong, I'd reflect back, "I hear you saying you think that doing it this other way would be better. In what ways would it be better than the way I'm doing it?" If they cite some authority, or say that it just is better, I'd go back to myself, "Well, until you can offer some reasons, I'm going to continue doing it the way I started." Once they offer reasons, scrutinize them until you have something compelling. This constantly frames things so that they have to justify their advice. If they're doing it for some psychological reason, they'll often get annoyed for this scrutiny and then you've got them complaining about you, and you can just continue with the Socratic approach, reflecting back things like "I hear you saying that you'd like me to be less scrutinizing of what you request of me." If they are still being an asshole, you can just reflect those but never agree to them or comment on them. It's like just shutting off part of yourself around them.

[tjt]

Wow, that guy sucks. I think you are doing a good job of dealing with him... definitely don't get down on yourself like you've been trained. Eventually, you'll probably have to ignore him because you likely won't be able to change him (get him to stop being an anal control freak) even if you make awesome points like you have already.

 

I've been on both ends of this situation. My dad was like this but to an extreme, so I understand what you mean. A complete dictatorial control freak--I've finally diagnosed him with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.

 

And because of my dad I was also this way to others around me (that's all I knew). I thought that was the proper way to interact with people, to 'help' them do the right thing... and they should be grateful for this 'help.' HA, not so! People who think like this, including myself at one point, are insane...

 

I mean the world is not going to end if you don't wipe down the equipment the exact right way. Anyways, these people need to realize there is no "right" way, it's a total figment of their imagination. Also, generally these type of nit pickers feel out of control in other aspects of their lives, which is why they are trying to control you. My dad for example hated his job, was left by his wife, and had a "rebellious" and obese daughter (my sister). The guy had no control in any other aspect of his life, except over me. Your guy for example cannot please his mother no matter what he does, he can't control it.

 

It took a long, long, long time for me to change my ways and realize that nobody wants to be "corrected." Luckily I had a very patient and supportive someone to help me through it. I always tell myself "there's more than one way to skin a cat" and when someone is doing something "wrong" and I find myself falling into old habits and getting annoyed (which is a ridiculous POV that I've all but shaken), I imagine the outcome-- will someone die? No. Will the building burn down? No. Then I think, "what if I "correct" this person?"--then an argument will erupt, or I will hurt someone that I care about, or I will give into and repeat my dad's mistakes, or I will miss out on experiencing an unforeseen awesome outcome because we are not all the same and we all do things differently. Way worse outcomes than letting people do their own fucking thing!

 

I've been able to build a respect for diversity in how people choose to get from Point A to Point B. But your guy will never be able to appreciate diversity. He's too stupid. Best thing you could do is keep repeating your position, never escalate it. It's like continuously telling a kid "Do we take candy from a stranger? No. And what if the candy is a chocolate bar? No, we don't take it. But what if the stranger tells you he has more in the van? No, we still don't take it." Until they get the point.

 

"Do I like it when you nag me about this? No. Do I like it when you nag me about that? No. Should you be nagging me right now? No."

 

Heehee, ok my argument got a little weak there at the end. A bit of a leap. But I hope it helps somehow! 

[Dylan Lawrence Moore]

I apologize for not going into more detail about it, but have you considered getting in his face so badly that he thinks twice about nagging you again? I have a eerie feeling that if you simply demand from him to talk to you in a more respectful manner over and over again without budging an inch, even if he doesn't acknowledge it, he'll start treating you better. Rule #1 with predators is to go after weak prey.